Daughter ruining career prospects

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my daughter's pathway appears to be somewhat similar. She is currently a sophomore at an elite school. How I have a clearer idea what to expect...

Look, it's the system. Our middle class kids get into these top schools by jumping though every hoop with our guidance. However, they never become truly independent. They never screwed anything up as teens, or they would never make it to Ivy(+).

So now they have to launch, and they just can't.

I do agree with others that the best path is focus on supporting her emotionally, be firm re no financial support after graduation, and focus on keeping your relationship. If she is so far gone as saying she wants to work on a farm for a while and then maybe write about environmental issues, she is probably depressed and has a social anxiety. Count your blessings she is not addressing them with alcohol and drugs. Hope and pray she graduates.

That’s what I thought at first too, but DD’s other actions (high GPA, lots of extracurricular involvement on campus — albeit not in preprofessional clubs) indicates otherwise. I don’t think she’s depressed or anxious. I think she just lacks the grit, resilience, and perseverance necessary to make bold career moves at such a crucial time in her life. Hence why she’s retreating into this Peter Pan summer camp counselor bullshit.

Well, she is comfortable studying and learning, and she does that way better than 99% of the country - that is why she is a "smart kid" admit to Ivy (+).
She can do that while depressed or anxious, it is the thing she does best.
When I did my research, there are about 200 kids per state who make that bar. Most admits are hooked somehow. Kids like yours and mine are vanishingly rate.

Ivy(+) colleges do their best to avoid families like yours and mine:

1. We qualify for lots of financial aid.
2. Our kids are often only good at academics.

Plus, both of our kids have this problem that they are pretty good at everything, but are truly exceptional in something that does not pay. For yours, it is reading and writing. She tried a FAANG internship and hated it. She wants to find something she likes. She hopes it exists. Unfortunately, very good chance it does not. I would let her do whatever this summer and just hope she graduates.

With a degree like hers and her youth, in this country there are always second chances. She will graduate, work some kind of a job, face her depression / anxiety, go to counseling, take meds, regroup, and do something good by 30. Your challenge is to remain her friend during that time.

OP here. Look, I get what you're saying, but she needs to face the truth now -- and the truth is, as you've stated, her "dream job" doesn't exist because her strengths (reading and writing and activist stuff) are not things that lead themselves to a living wage. I can't just "let her do whatever this summer and just hope she graduates" because she'll be delaying her adulthood and feeding into her Peter Pan syndrome. She needs to be slapped in the face with the cold, harsh truth of adult reality for girls like her, which is that all of her "dream jobs" are for rich kids whose parents will be subsidizing their downpayment. That's obviously not us, so she needs to get over that fear and anxious dread of the working world and face the uncomfortable reality of being an adult straight-on. And letting her be a summer camp counselor instead of seeing the soul-sucking nature of working for a decent wage (which publishing/NPO work can't provide) would just be irresponsible -- and arguably emotionally manipulative -- of me.

Yes, you can. You’re just refusing to.

You are shockingly obstinate and bullheaded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I majored in political science. I didn’t have any “coveted” internships during undergrad. The summer after my junior year, I lived at home after coming back from study abroad and just hung out. I ended up at a top 10 university for grad school, did 10 years as an analyst at a very coveted fed agency and currently work for a bulge bracket bank (aka Citigroup, JP Morgan, etc.).

What you major in, or where you intern, is much less important than how you leverage your skills in the workplace.

You probably graduated in the 90s when hiring practices were wildly different. And you are the rare exception to the rule — most BB IB folks had that covered junior summer internship (which, BTW, are given out 14 months before the start date now).

I graduated in 2009.

I’m a 2009 grad who worked in MBB (and did a summer in finance) and you and I both know your path is the exception not the rule. I think OP is crazy for the record, but anecdotes like yours are incredibly misleading. Can you get in on a non traditional path? Of course. But, it’s very hard.

I don’t work in consulting and never said I did, so I don’t know why your experience and mine are related.

My point is that I'm very familiar with finance (and hypercompetitive jobs like it) and I know enough to know that your experience is not typical. That's all. Like I said, OP is a nutjob, but if this were a path OP's daughter wanted, it would be far more prudent to follow the traditional path than try to be the 0.01% exception. I'm sure out there some MC kid who doesn't know much about these careers is reading this while trying to get up to speed. And I want him/her to know the game and not be misled about how to play it.

I was once that kid. And posts like yours can be more dangerous than you realize. (Not that I think you have bad intent. You're just not seeing past your own survivor bias.)

Bank jobs are much broader than pure finance/MC sorts of things. You seem to have a narrow view of what working for a BB FI means.

You're being intentionally misleading. I agree with PP here. It's an anonymous forum, no need to have an ego about working at a BB when your role is not the one being targeted by OP (misguided or not), and you know it.

Since most people on here seem to be unfamiliar with finance jobs, why not just be upfront about what your actual role is?

Because I don’t want to risk outing myself. But if you think all jobs at big banks are essentially finance/consulting roles, then you’re just ignorant and I don’t feel the need to educate you.

Of course we know that not all jobs at big banks are finance. That’s why we’re saying you’re being misleading.

When people at top schools are talking about getting a job at MBB or at a BB (Bulge Bracket investment bank), they mean
- MBB: analyst consulting roles right out of college or business school; typically responsible for analysis and slide generation for a work stream
- BB: doing investment banking (a product or coverage group), sales and trading, or investment management.

At the UG level, that means getting a junior internship and if you do well, an offer to return after graduation. That’s the path for 99% of people and the jobs are tough to get.

A bank like JP Morgan employs north of 100,000 people. That includes investment bankers, but also paralegals, HR recruiters, marketing, compliance, an internal accounting team etc. All the more back officey jobs that you need to run a succcessful company. I suspect your role is more like these and these are great jobs! But when you say you work in finance (after “grad” school and work at an agency - not a traditional MBA) in the context of a convo like this, you’re leading people to believe you found the back door to investment banking when you’re doing something else altogether.

It’s sort of like this acquaintance I have that often calls herself a “Woman in Tech” and likes to talk about how she loves being in a competitive field like “Tech.” She knows full well that when most people hear that, they think software developing/engineer. She actually does advertising sales after being a social sciences major. A job to very proud of for sure, but as DCUM likes to say, ad sales is not tech. It’s sales.

I never said I work in finance. I said I work for a BB bank. You then jumped down my throat. Just let it go.

[Anonymous]

Oh and my role is an analytic one that has me regularly interact with C-suite individuals. I just finished a paper for the CEO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my daughter's pathway appears to be somewhat similar. She is currently a sophomore at an elite school. How I have a clearer idea what to expect...

Look, it's the system. Our middle class kids get into these top schools by jumping though every hoop with our guidance. However, they never become truly independent. They never screwed anything up as teens, or they would never make it to Ivy(+).

So now they have to launch, and they just can't.

I do agree with others that the best path is focus on supporting her emotionally, be firm re no financial support after graduation, and focus on keeping your relationship. If she is so far gone as saying she wants to work on a farm for a while and then maybe write about environmental issues, she is probably depressed and has a social anxiety. Count your blessings she is not addressing them with alcohol and drugs. Hope and pray she graduates.

That’s what I thought at first too, but DD’s other actions (high GPA, lots of extracurricular involvement on campus — albeit not in preprofessional clubs) indicates otherwise. I don’t think she’s depressed or anxious. I think she just lacks the grit, resilience, and perseverance necessary to make bold career moves at such a crucial time in her life. Hence why she’s retreating into this Peter Pan summer camp counselor bullshit.

Well, she is comfortable studying and learning, and she does that way better than 99% of the country - that is why she is a "smart kid" admit to Ivy (+).
She can do that while depressed or anxious, it is the thing she does best.
When I did my research, there are about 200 kids per state who make that bar. Most admits are hooked somehow. Kids like yours and mine are vanishingly rate.

Ivy(+) colleges do their best to avoid families like yours and mine:

1. We qualify for lots of financial aid.
2. Our kids are often only good at academics.

Plus, both of our kids have this problem that they are pretty good at everything, but are truly exceptional in something that does not pay. For yours, it is reading and writing. She tried a FAANG internship and hated it. She wants to find something she likes. She hopes it exists. Unfortunately, very good chance it does not. I would let her do whatever this summer and just hope she graduates.

With a degree like hers and her youth, in this country there are always second chances. She will graduate, work some kind of a job, face her depression / anxiety, go to counseling, take meds, regroup, and do something good by 30. Your challenge is to remain her friend during that time.

OP here. Look, I get what you're saying, but she needs to face the truth now -- and the truth is, as you've stated, her "dream job" doesn't exist because her strengths (reading and writing and activist stuff) are not things that lead themselves to a living wage. I can't just "let her do whatever this summer and just hope she graduates" because she'll be delaying her adulthood and feeding into her Peter Pan syndrome. She needs to be slapped in the face with the cold, harsh truth of adult reality for girls like her, which is that all of her "dream jobs" are for rich kids whose parents will be subsidizing their downpayment. That's obviously not us, so she needs to get over that fear and anxious dread of the working world and face the uncomfortable reality of being an adult straight-on. And letting her be a summer camp counselor instead of seeing the soul-sucking nature of working for a decent wage (which publishing/NPO work can't provide) would just be irresponsible -- and arguably emotionally manipulative -- of me.

Yes, you can. You’re just refusing to.

You are shockingly obstinate and bullheaded.

And emotionally manipulative…you’re a piece of work OP. I in fact know plenty of people who have decent jobs, reading, writing and doing activist stuff (talk about condescending). Do they own houses, some do, so don’t. While that may be your marker of a successful life, it’s not for others. So once again, no she will not be ruining her life. But we can agree to disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh and my role is an analytic one that has me regularly interact with C-suite individuals. I just finished a paper for the CEO.

Kindly - No one jumped down your throat. You did post misleading information and even when I (and another poster) politely pointed that out, you insulted us and kept insisting that we didn’t know what we were talking about. Look at your own posts - they were rude and you stubbornly stuck to your story. It’s not reasonable to play victim now.

And congrats on the work you did for the CEO.

[Anonymous]

One thing I've noticed on this thread is OP using extremely hyperbolic language to describe totally normal things.

I'm baffled, because OP claims to be not-rich, but she thinks any job that doesn't pay a half million a year is going to end with her daughter eating ramen in a roach-infested walk-up with 14 roommates. It's like she just can't imagine any lifestyle between Dickensian squalor and the ultra-elite.

Similarly, she uses phrases like "Peter Pan Syndrome" and "Failure to Launch" to describe an adult child who has actually articulated a plan for what she wants to do next. It's not what OP wants her to do, but it's not playing Xbox in the basement.

At every turn, OP suffers from a magnificent failure of imagination.

However, the most important factor here the OP is not wrestling with is that her child does not want to go the FAANG route. She tried that, she did not like it, and she is not going to be successful in that world because you have to actually want it. The entire system is predicated on hiring 100 people knowing you will only keep 25. OP's child will not be in that 25 because she doesn't want to be.

So why not help her be the best "X" that she can be, rather than just continuing to try to shove a square peg into a round hole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and my role is an analytic one that has me regularly interact with C-suite individuals. I just finished a paper for the CEO.

Kindly - No one jumped down your throat. You did post misleading information and even when I (and another poster) politely pointed that out, you insulted us and kept insisting that we didn’t know what we were talking about. Look at your own posts - they were rude and you stubbornly stuck to your story. It’s not reasonable to play victim now.

And congrats on the work you did for the CEO.

What misleading information did I post? I never said finance. I never said consulting. I never said investment banking.

[jsteele]

This OP is a troll.