Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

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This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Yes, affirmative action is harmful to whites as well. If it were only whites being harmed by affirmative action, it should still be eliminated. That it harms Asians so substantially is a convenient way to use the left's arguments against the left.

You got it. This lawsuit is not about helping the model Asians, it's about preserving the white status quo. White male fragility must be protected at all cost.

I have a strong dislike for the Republican party but I will be the first to admit that their game plan is always topnotch.

It’s all about protecting white male fragility, eh? Honestly, some of you people are as bad as the QAnon folks with their conspiracies.

White males have been at the losing end of AA and I don't feel sorry for them.

Who is funding the plaintiff's case?

Beware the generosity of rich, white conservative men because when they "help" minorities (including Asians), it is always for their own good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian Americans make up 5.7 percent of population with a 30 percent acceptance rate at Harvard.

It takes balls to Sue

Harvard, Yale etc increased the percentage after the Dept of Educ investigation during the Trump Adm. It had looked like a quota with the number staying the same for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what I want- I want there to be a registry for classes/tutoring/test prep and each test prep/tutoring you get puts you in a demographic of your own so you are only compared against those same kids. Same with how many times you take it. Kids who take it 3 times with 4 prep classes should not be in the same cohort as a kid who takes it once with no prep. Special talents and ECs? Those take time, investment, and funding. Awards? Ppft.

So you want a registry of people who purchase certain books or check them out at a library. Or perhaps you want all the Kaplan and Princeton Review books burned at 233C.
Maybe Amazon will give records to the universities. And there should be a registry of all lending of these books to third parties, no straw purchases.

I am pointing out that the admissions is likely grouping them into smaller cohorts and selecting from those smaller groups vs how posters here seem to think everyone should go in one pot and the "best" of the all of those get selected. You seem to want to compare kids with every advantage (access, cultural, educational, financial, etc.) to other kids missing one or more of those.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Asians were deemed subhuman and unassimilable in the nineteenth century, but have become America’s exceptionally competent minority in the 21st century. This does not fit neatly within the progressive narrative. It is much easier to lower the bar for certain groups than to do the heavy lifting of improving the educational system for all.

You have foolishly bought into the conservative narrative that progressives are the problem. URMs are not the problem.

Can you explain why it is that Asian applicants need higher scores in order to get into top colleges? The right has a plausible explanation that was born out by the Harvard case, what is your alternative explanation?

Holistic admissions. Test scores are not the be all/end all that folks think they are.

So we're pretending that the Harvard personality scores that were shown to be lower across the board for asians are just causal racism and not a way to dock asian applicants in order to boost diversity? Or do you believe that Asian kids really do have inferior personalities?

This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Admissions is zero sum. If it weren't for the personality scores, the Harvard student body would be far more Asian American

Only if test scores were the only admission criteria. Clearly, that is not the case. It's really hard for some people to accept that their excellent test scores can only get them so far. So is life.

Of course not, you have the personality score to insert racist biases. It's more necessary than ever now that Asian American students are realizing that ECs matter.

All that racism but Asian students make up approximately 30% of Harvard's student population. Oh the humanity and entitlement!

Is that correct? What would the percentage need to be for the Asian American's who don't get in to accept the outcome?

They want 100% admission.

It's never about percentage.
No individual should be discriminated based on race.
Period.

You would be ok if it were 100% Asian males?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A person asked this up thread but it wasn't answered:

What happens to all the Asian kids who gradate from Harvard and similar (and have for 20 years)? You don't see them at all in law or finance or in the C suite. I see some in medicine but not enough to account for the numbers that graduate from prestigious undergrads. Are many working behind the scenes in tech?

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why did this make me laugh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians were deemed subhuman and unassimilable in the nineteenth century, but have become America’s exceptionally competent minority in the 21st century. This does not fit neatly within the progressive narrative. It is much easier to lower the bar for certain groups than to do the heavy lifting of improving the educational system for all.

You have foolishly bought into the conservative narrative that progressives are the problem. URMs are not the problem.

Can you explain why it is that Asian applicants need higher scores in order to get into top colleges? The right has a plausible explanation that was born out by the Harvard case, what is your alternative explanation?

Holistic admissions. Test scores are not the be all/end all that folks think they are.

So we're pretending that the Harvard personality scores that were shown to be lower across the board for asians are just causal racism and not a way to dock asian applicants in order to boost diversity? Or do you believe that Asian kids really do have inferior personalities?

This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Admissions is zero sum. If it weren't for the personality scores, the Harvard student body would be far more Asian American

Only if test scores were the only admission criteria. Clearly, that is not the case. It's really hard for some people to accept that their excellent test scores can only get them so far. So is life.

Of course not, you have the personality score to insert racist biases. It's more necessary than ever now that Asian American students are realizing that ECs matter.

All that racism but Asian students make up approximately 30% of Harvard's student population. Oh the humanity and entitlement!

Is that correct? What would the percentage need to be for the Asian American's who don't get in to accept the outcome?

They want 100% admission.

It's never about percentage.
No individual should be discriminated based on race.
Period.

You would be ok if it were 100% Asian males?

Are you ok with racial discrimination?
Besides, there are schools with 100 females and 90% Blacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians were deemed subhuman and unassimilable in the nineteenth century, but have become America’s exceptionally competent minority in the 21st century. This does not fit neatly within the progressive narrative. It is much easier to lower the bar for certain groups than to do the heavy lifting of improving the educational system for all.

You have foolishly bought into the conservative narrative that progressives are the problem. URMs are not the problem.

Can you explain why it is that Asian applicants need higher scores in order to get into top colleges? The right has a plausible explanation that was born out by the Harvard case, what is your alternative explanation?

Holistic admissions. Test scores are not the be all/end all that folks think they are.

So we're pretending that the Harvard personality scores that were shown to be lower across the board for asians are just causal racism and not a way to dock asian applicants in order to boost diversity? Or do you believe that Asian kids really do have inferior personalities?

This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Admissions is zero sum. If it weren't for the personality scores, the Harvard student body would be far more Asian American

Only if test scores were the only admission criteria. Clearly, that is not the case. It's really hard for some people to accept that their excellent test scores can only get them so far. So is life.

Of course not, you have the personality score to insert racist biases. It's more necessary than ever now that Asian American students are realizing that ECs matter.

All that racism but Asian students make up approximately 30% of Harvard's student population. Oh the humanity and entitlement!

Amazing !

Is it entitlement to want to be judged by the transcripts rather than by the color of the skin?

Your mission is to first prove that you are being judged by the color of your skin.

How do you account for the findings where Harvard admissions would give a low personality score for Asian Am. students whom they never met even as the interviewers, who did meet the student, gave them high scores for personality?

It could just be racial biases.

JUST racial biases. Okay then! No need to care about that... Smh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The US is only 13% black and 6% Asian. Colleges should be majority white because the US is majority white. The elite colleges that are 50% minority have way over-corrected.

Harvard's class of 2026 is 43% White, 28% Asian, 14% Black, 11% Latino.

Princeton's class of 2026 is nearly 50% White, 25% Asian, 9% Black, 8% Latino.

These schools are still not hitting 2020 census marks with Latino and Black populations; they are far from overrepresented.

It's not 8% black. Half of those 'black' kids are biracial (half black).

Do ya'l really think they letting in all those black kids. LOL!

Be effing for real! LOL!

[Anonymous]

New poster here pointing out that not all observed generalizations about groups are Racism with a capital r. Yes, there are differences between cultures. Asian American kids are much more likely to play violin than football, and to major in stem than theater. And, it must be said, to go to test prep cram schools. It’s not racism to point out cultural differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians were deemed subhuman and unassimilable in the nineteenth century, but have become America’s exceptionally competent minority in the 21st century. This does not fit neatly within the progressive narrative. It is much easier to lower the bar for certain groups than to do the heavy lifting of improving the educational system for all.

You have foolishly bought into the conservative narrative that progressives are the problem. URMs are not the problem.

Can you explain why it is that Asian applicants need higher scores in order to get into top colleges? The right has a plausible explanation that was born out by the Harvard case, what is your alternative explanation?

Holistic admissions. Test scores are not the be all/end all that folks think they are.

So we're pretending that the Harvard personality scores that were shown to be lower across the board for asians are just causal racism and not a way to dock asian applicants in order to boost diversity? Or do you believe that Asian kids really do have inferior personalities?

This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Admissions is zero sum. If it weren't for the personality scores, the Harvard student body would be far more Asian American

Only if test scores were the only admission criteria. Clearly, that is not the case. It's really hard for some people to accept that their excellent test scores can only get them so far. So is life.

Of course not, you have the personality score to insert racist biases. It's more necessary than ever now that Asian American students are realizing that ECs matter.

All that racism but Asian students make up approximately 30% of Harvard's student population. Oh the humanity and entitlement!

Is that correct? What would the percentage need to be for the Asian American's who don't get in to accept the outcome?

They want 100% admission.

It's never about percentage.
No individual should be discriminated based on race.
Period.

You would be ok if it were 100% Asian males?

Are you ok with racial discrimination?
Besides, there are schools with 100 females and 90% Blacks.

Don't bring HBCUs into this discussion. They take everyone but just like how entitled folks wouldn't be caught dead in PGC, most of you wouldn't dream of sending your snowflake to Howard University or other reputable black colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians were deemed subhuman and unassimilable in the nineteenth century, but have become America’s exceptionally competent minority in the 21st century. This does not fit neatly within the progressive narrative. It is much easier to lower the bar for certain groups than to do the heavy lifting of improving the educational system for all.

You have foolishly bought into the conservative narrative that progressives are the problem. URMs are not the problem.

Can you explain why it is that Asian applicants need higher scores in order to get into top colleges? The right has a plausible explanation that was born out by the Harvard case, what is your alternative explanation?

Holistic admissions. Test scores are not the be all/end all that folks think they are.

So we're pretending that the Harvard personality scores that were shown to be lower across the board for asians are just causal racism and not a way to dock asian applicants in order to boost diversity? Or do you believe that Asian kids really do have inferior personalities?

This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Admissions is zero sum. If it weren't for the personality scores, the Harvard student body would be far more Asian American

Only if test scores were the only admission criteria. Clearly, that is not the case. It's really hard for some people to accept that their excellent test scores can only get them so far. So is life.

Of course not, you have the personality score to insert racist biases. It's more necessary than ever now that Asian American students are realizing that ECs matter.

All that racism but Asian students make up approximately 30% of Harvard's student population. Oh the humanity and entitlement!

Is that correct? What would the percentage need to be for the Asian American's who don't get in to accept the outcome?

They want 100% admission.

It's never about percentage.
No individual should be discriminated based on race.
Period.

You would be ok if it were 100% Asian males?

Are you ok with racial discrimination?
Besides, there are schools with 100 females and 90% Blacks.

So that’s a yes? You think it’d be acceptable for a school to have 100% Asian male admittees?

Is it also ok to have 100% women and 90% black schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The US is only 13% black and 6% Asian. Colleges should be majority white because the US is majority white. The elite colleges that are 50% minority have way over-corrected.

Harvard's class of 2026 is 43% White, 28% Asian, 14% Black, 11% Latino.

Princeton's class of 2026 is nearly 50% White, 25% Asian, 9% Black, 8% Latino.

These schools are still not hitting 2020 census marks with Latino and Black populations; they are far from overrepresented.

It's not 8% black. Half of those 'black' kids are biracial (half black).

Do ya'l really think they letting in all those black kids. LOL!

Be effing for real! LOL!

And probably the other half of the "black" kids are immigrant students are from either Nigeria or the Caribbean. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A person asked this up thread but it wasn't answered:

What happens to all the Asian kids who gradate from Harvard and similar (and have for 20 years)? You don't see them at all in law or finance or in the C suite. I see some in medicine but not enough to account for the numbers that graduate from prestigious undergrads. Are many working behind the scenes in tech?

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

Why did this make me laugh?

If I had to guess it’s because you’re a counterexample to that ignorant statement. They’re not hard to find.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So if a kid mentions their race or references it in an essay, what is the "fair admission" guy saying? That AOs can't use the essay?

That was one of the questions asked by (I think) Justice Jackson. There was no direct answer.

Eventually agreed that it is probably ok in that context, since an Asian student could also reference in their essay eg. discrimination that they may also have faced growing up.

I heard Jackson ask whether if you have 2 kids, one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and gone to UNC for 5 generations, and one whose family has lived in NC for 5 generations and could not go to UNC for 5 generations because of slavery, could they each say it was important to them to go to UNC for those reasons and could UNC consider each of those stories as factors and the plaintiffs' lawyer basically said UNC could consider the first and not the second (though he did say UNC could refuse to consider the first, and could consider first gen or low SES students).

It sounds so stpuid a kid born in 2023 is affected by the slavery of his/her slave ancestors.

Yes, stupid and very sad that this is true.

How is the kid affected by slavery today?

I wrote quite a bit about the impacts of slavery that are still very much with us — and I erased it all. Instead, I’ll flip it.

If your parents or grandparents or great great grandparents came to this country in search of a better life — and actually found one, how does this affect kids in your family today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians were deemed subhuman and unassimilable in the nineteenth century, but have become America’s exceptionally competent minority in the 21st century. This does not fit neatly within the progressive narrative. It is much easier to lower the bar for certain groups than to do the heavy lifting of improving the educational system for all.

You have foolishly bought into the conservative narrative that progressives are the problem. URMs are not the problem.

Can you explain why it is that Asian applicants need higher scores in order to get into top colleges? The right has a plausible explanation that was born out by the Harvard case, what is your alternative explanation?

Holistic admissions. Test scores are not the be all/end all that folks think they are.

So we're pretending that the Harvard personality scores that were shown to be lower across the board for asians are just causal racism and not a way to dock asian applicants in order to boost diversity? Or do you believe that Asian kids really do have inferior personalities?

This is a false premise. There is no diversity gain from decreasing the number of Asians students when it is primarily white students who are losing ground in admissions.

Admissions is zero sum. If it weren't for the personality scores, the Harvard student body would be far more Asian American

Only if test scores were the only admission criteria. Clearly, that is not the case. It's really hard for some people to accept that their excellent test scores can only get them so far. So is life.

Of course not, you have the personality score to insert racist biases. It's more necessary than ever now that Asian American students are realizing that ECs matter.

All that racism but Asian students make up approximately 30% of Harvard's student population. Oh the humanity and entitlement!

Is that correct? What would the percentage need to be for the Asian American's who don't get in to accept the outcome?

They want 100% admission.

It's never about percentage.
No individual should be discriminated based on race.
Period.

You would be ok if it were 100% Asian males?

Are you ok with racial discrimination?
Besides, there are schools with 100 females and 90% Blacks.

You still need to prove racial discrimination.