FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, they should eliminate all AAP centers and all split feeders. Make each school a neighborhood school. Have AP in all schools. Changing boundaries shouldn’t even be a discussion until those things are complete.

I’ve HEARD through various channels that there are a few advocacy groups that are influential in keeping the AAP centers going. Fairfax County Association for the Gifted was one. They won’t be eliminated any time soon. It seems like the hope right now is getting LLIV into all schools, pushing for kids to stay at their local schools, and then maybe, eventually, 10-15+ years into the future, reducing the number of ES AAP centers. MS AAP may be eliminated sooner if the amount of honors classes increases.

Excellent! FCPS absolutely needs the centers to stay open in order to provide strong cohorts of advanced students for those who need it.

BS. These students can receive advanced instruction within their own neighborhood schools.

Nope. Centers are superior to the local level IV.

Too bad. They're inequitable for all of the other kids who don't get to choose which school they'd prefer to attend. A true GT center/program would be quite different than these unnecessary AAP centers full of kids who overlap hugely with GenEd kids.

They aren't inequitable because your kid can't get in. Kids choose their schools in other ways as well. The fixation on centers is strange. Even if there were GT centers there would still be a group of kids that choose their school

If there was an actual GT program - you know, for the tiny percent of actually gifted kids - then we would only need a couple of centers, one on either end of the county. That's how few kids would actually qualify for a gifted program. The rest of the kids, to include the merely "advanced," would simply be educated at their neighborhood school, which would hopefully re-implement flexible groupings.

FCPS is super wealthy, has one of the highest concentrations of highly educated moms in the entire country, and a disproportionately high number of asians and indians.

We do not have just "a few truly gifted" kids.

We have every thing in place to have many "truly gifted"kids: affluence, really smart highly educated moms, and lots of asians.

They aren’t gifted. They are elementary school advanced. Big, big difference. Look at the list of National Merit commended students that was posted recently. That’s just the lowest level of recognition BTW - not semi finalists or award winners. At some of these ES, a huge number of kids are “AAP.” Is that number reflected in the number of National Merit commended students? No it is absolutely not. There are FAR fewer commended students than kids in elementary and even middle AAP. You’d think if they were all “gifted,” they could at least get to commended student status on one of the biggest HS standardized tests. But they can’t. Because they aren’t all gifted. They are merely good elementary school students. BTW, a surprising number of truly gifted kids are poor students.

A smaller number of centers would be fine to accommodate the truly gifted. Not the wacky, two tiered system we have now. Most kids needs can be met at the local schools with advanced math and some ELA extensions. For the kids whose needs truly can’t be met, they need an IEP for actual gifted services, which is the way it was done in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, they should eliminate all AAP centers and all split feeders. Make each school a neighborhood school. Have AP in all schools. Changing boundaries shouldn’t even be a discussion until those things are complete.

I’ve HEARD through various channels that there are a few advocacy groups that are influential in keeping the AAP centers going. Fairfax County Association for the Gifted was one. They won’t be eliminated any time soon. It seems like the hope right now is getting LLIV into all schools, pushing for kids to stay at their local schools, and then maybe, eventually, 10-15+ years into the future, reducing the number of ES AAP centers. MS AAP may be eliminated sooner if the amount of honors classes increases.

Excellent! FCPS absolutely needs the centers to stay open in order to provide strong cohorts of advanced students for those who need it.

BS. These students can receive advanced instruction within their own neighborhood schools.

Nope. Centers are superior to the local level IV.

Too bad. They're inequitable for all of the other kids who don't get to choose which school they'd prefer to attend. A true GT center/program would be quite different than these unnecessary AAP centers full of kids who overlap hugely with GenEd kids.

They aren't inequitable because your kid can't get in. Kids choose their schools in other ways as well. The fixation on centers is strange. Even if there were GT centers there would still be a group of kids that choose their school

If there was an actual GT program - you know, for the tiny percent of actually gifted kids - then we would only need a couple of centers, one on either end of the county. That's how few kids would actually qualify for a gifted program. The rest of the kids, to include the merely "advanced," would simply be educated at their neighborhood school, which would hopefully re-implement flexible groupings.

FCPS is super wealthy, has one of the highest concentrations of highly educated moms in the entire country, and a disproportionately high number of asians and indians.

We do not have just "a few truly gifted" kids.

We have every thing in place to have many "truly gifted"kids: affluence, really smart highly educated moms, and lots of asians.

They aren’t gifted. They are elementary school advanced. Big, big difference. Look at the list of National Merit commended students that was posted recently. That’s just the lowest level of recognition BTW - not semi finalists or award winners. At some of these ES, a huge number of kids are “AAP.” Is that number reflected in the number of National Merit commended students? No it is absolutely not. There are FAR fewer commended students than kids in elementary and even middle AAP. You’d think if they were all “gifted,” they could at least get to commended student status on one of the biggest HS standardized tests. But they can’t. Because they aren’t all gifted. They are merely good elementary school students. BTW, a surprising number of truly gifted kids are poor students.

A smaller number of centers would be fine to accommodate the truly gifted. Not the wacky, two tiered system we have now. Most kids needs can be met at the local schools with advanced math and some ELA extensions. For the kids whose needs truly can’t be met, they need an IEP for actual gifted services, which is the way it was done in the past.

What are you really mad about?

- that kids can leave base schools?
-that smart kids aren’t there to teach your kid?
- That your kid may be transferred because a school allows kids to transfer out?

If you want AAP gone- start a separate thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, they should eliminate all AAP centers and all split feeders. Make each school a neighborhood school. Have AP in all schools. Changing boundaries shouldn’t even be a discussion until those things are complete.

I’ve HEARD through various channels that there are a few advocacy groups that are influential in keeping the AAP centers going. Fairfax County Association for the Gifted was one. They won’t be eliminated any time soon. It seems like the hope right now is getting LLIV into all schools, pushing for kids to stay at their local schools, and then maybe, eventually, 10-15+ years into the future, reducing the number of ES AAP centers. MS AAP may be eliminated sooner if the amount of honors classes increases.

Excellent! FCPS absolutely needs the centers to stay open in order to provide strong cohorts of advanced students for those who need it.

BS. These students can receive advanced instruction within their own neighborhood schools.

Nope. Centers are superior to the local level IV.

Too bad. They're inequitable for all of the other kids who don't get to choose which school they'd prefer to attend. A true GT center/program would be quite different than these unnecessary AAP centers full of kids who overlap hugely with GenEd kids.

They aren't inequitable because your kid can't get in. Kids choose their schools in other ways as well. The fixation on centers is strange. Even if there were GT centers there would still be a group of kids that choose their school

If there was an actual GT program - you know, for the tiny percent of actually gifted kids - then we would only need a couple of centers, one on either end of the county. That's how few kids would actually qualify for a gifted program. The rest of the kids, to include the merely "advanced," would simply be educated at their neighborhood school, which would hopefully re-implement flexible groupings.

What a horrible idea.

One of mine hit the ceiling on his individually administered IQ test (150)

Centers are a fwr superior model.for these "truly gifted" kids than what you are describing.

And just so you know, back when AAP was a "truly gifted" program, it was still a center model, with 1-2 classes in each pyramid, with none of this "one on either end of the county"

What yoh are talking about is up to an hour commute for kids down to 2rd grade, completely removing them from.their neighborhoods and communities.

Could the center be a little tighter with acceptances? Of course.

Should FCPS scrap centers for an impractical amd ineffective idea like you are suggesting? Absolutely not.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. Centers have worn out their welcome. AAP is not a gifted program, it’s just the regular curriculum slightly accelerated. I grew up in FCPS and there was never a “center model” with GT. The very few kids who qualified were simply taught at their neighborhood school in a small group. This is what they need to return to.

You have never been that kid or the parent of that kid.

I have been that kid and am a parent of that kid. We did what you want in a different state.

What you are describing is a terrible option for truly gifted kids.

For all its flaws, the FCPS center model is far superior to any of the other options for gifted kids.

[Anonymous]

Can the I hate AAap poster please start her own thread?

This is a discussion about rezoning.

The school board is not touching centers during this rezoning process.

Discuss your hate for centers somewhere else please, since they have nothing to do with rezoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can the I hate AAap poster please start her own thread?

This is a discussion about rezoning.

The school board is not touching centers during this rezoning process.

Discuss your hate for centers somewhere else please, since they have nothing to do with rezoning.

DP. I did think it was relevant for people to observe that they could be locking themselves into the current AAP model for at least five more years if they change boundaries based on the assumption that existing AAP centers will continue to be centers.

They really should have sorted that out, as well as whether they want to retain at least a half-dozen failing IB programs, before they looked at boundaries.

But most of these complaints about AAP are just the same complaints some posters have been voicing for years. If they aren’t tied to the boundary review, they don’t belong in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can the I hate AAap poster please start her own thread?

This is a discussion about rezoning.

The school board is not touching centers during this rezoning process.

Discuss your hate for centers somewhere else please, since they have nothing to do with rezoning.

She goes to every DCUM thread that she can to spew this anti AAP/anti center message.Every. One.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, they should eliminate all AAP centers and all split feeders. Make each school a neighborhood school. Have AP in all schools. Changing boundaries shouldn’t even be a discussion until those things are complete.

I’ve HEARD through various channels that there are a few advocacy groups that are influential in keeping the AAP centers going. Fairfax County Association for the Gifted was one. They won’t be eliminated any time soon. It seems like the hope right now is getting LLIV into all schools, pushing for kids to stay at their local schools, and then maybe, eventually, 10-15+ years into the future, reducing the number of ES AAP centers. MS AAP may be eliminated sooner if the amount of honors classes increases.

Excellent! FCPS absolutely needs the centers to stay open in order to provide strong cohorts of advanced students for those who need it.

BS. These students can receive advanced instruction within their own neighborhood schools.

Nope. Centers are superior to the local level IV.

Too bad. They're inequitable for all of the other kids who don't get to choose which school they'd prefer to attend. A true GT center/program would be quite different than these unnecessary AAP centers full of kids who overlap hugely with GenEd kids.

They aren't inequitable because your kid can't get in. Kids choose their schools in other ways as well. The fixation on centers is strange. Even if there were GT centers there would still be a group of kids that choose their school

If there was an actual GT program - you know, for the tiny percent of actually gifted kids - then we would only need a couple of centers, one on either end of the county. That's how few kids would actually qualify for a gifted program. The rest of the kids, to include the merely "advanced," would simply be educated at their neighborhood school, which would hopefully re-implement flexible groupings.

FCPS is super wealthy, has one of the highest concentrations of highly educated moms in the entire country, and a disproportionately high number of asians and indians.

We do not have just "a few truly gifted" kids.

We have every thing in place to have many "truly gifted"kids: affluence, really smart highly educated moms, and lots of asians.

They aren’t gifted. They are elementary school advanced. Big, big difference. Look at the list of National Merit commended students that was posted recently. That’s just the lowest level of recognition BTW - not semi finalists or award winners. At some of these ES, a huge number of kids are “AAP.” Is that number reflected in the number of National Merit commended students? No it is absolutely not. There are FAR fewer commended students than kids in elementary and even middle AAP. You’d think if they were all “gifted,” they could at least get to commended student status on one of the biggest HS standardized tests. But they can’t. Because they aren’t all gifted. They are merely good elementary school students. BTW, a surprising number of truly gifted kids are poor students.

A smaller number of centers would be fine to accommodate the truly gifted. Not the wacky, two tiered system we have now. Most kids needs can be met at the local schools with advanced math and some ELA extensions. For the kids whose needs truly can’t be met, they need an IEP for actual gifted services, which is the way it was done in the past.

What are you really mad about?

- that kids can leave base schools?
-that smart kids aren’t there to teach your kid?
- That your kid may be transferred because a school allows kids to transfer out?

If you want AAP gone- start a separate thread.

I’m just pointing out that there aren’t soooooo many gifted kids in FCPS. There just aren’t. Regardless, the centers are apparently staying because certain interest groups like them, so they won’t be a part of the boundary discussions at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IMO, they should eliminate all AAP centers and all split feeders. Make each school a neighborhood school. Have AP in all schools. Changing boundaries shouldn’t even be a discussion until those things are complete.

I’ve HEARD through various channels that there are a few advocacy groups that are influential in keeping the AAP centers going. Fairfax County Association for the Gifted was one. They won’t be eliminated any time soon. It seems like the hope right now is getting LLIV into all schools, pushing for kids to stay at their local schools, and then maybe, eventually, 10-15+ years into the future, reducing the number of ES AAP centers. MS AAP may be eliminated sooner if the amount of honors classes increases.

Excellent! FCPS absolutely needs the centers to stay open in order to provide strong cohorts of advanced students for those who need it.

BS. These students can receive advanced instruction within their own neighborhood schools.

Nope. Centers are superior to the local level IV.

Too bad. They're inequitable for all of the other kids who don't get to choose which school they'd prefer to attend. A true GT center/program would be quite different than these unnecessary AAP centers full of kids who overlap hugely with GenEd kids.

They aren't inequitable because your kid can't get in. Kids choose their schools in other ways as well. The fixation on centers is strange. Even if there were GT centers there would still be a group of kids that choose their school

If there was an actual GT program - you know, for the tiny percent of actually gifted kids - then we would only need a couple of centers, one on either end of the county. That's how few kids would actually qualify for a gifted program. The rest of the kids, to include the merely "advanced," would simply be educated at their neighborhood school, which would hopefully re-implement flexible groupings.

FCPS is super wealthy, has one of the highest concentrations of highly educated moms in the entire country, and a disproportionately high number of asians and indians.

We do not have just "a few truly gifted" kids.

We have every thing in place to have many "truly gifted"kids: affluence, really smart highly educated moms, and lots of asians.

They aren’t gifted. They are elementary school advanced. Big, big difference. Look at the list of National Merit commended students that was posted recently. That’s just the lowest level of recognition BTW - not semi finalists or award winners. At some of these ES, a huge number of kids are “AAP.” Is that number reflected in the number of National Merit commended students? No it is absolutely not. There are FAR fewer commended students than kids in elementary and even middle AAP. You’d think if they were all “gifted,” they could at least get to commended student status on one of the biggest HS standardized tests. But they can’t. Because they aren’t all gifted. They are merely good elementary school students. BTW, a surprising number of truly gifted kids are poor students.

A smaller number of centers would be fine to accommodate the truly gifted. Not the wacky, two tiered system we have now. Most kids needs can be met at the local schools with advanced math and some ELA extensions. For the kids whose needs truly can’t be met, they need an IEP for actual gifted services, which is the way it was done in the past.

What are you really mad about?

- that kids can leave base schools?
-that smart kids aren’t there to teach your kid?
- That your kid may be transferred because a school allows kids to transfer out?

If you want AAP gone- start a separate thread.

I’m just pointing out that there aren’t soooooo many gifted kids in FCPS. There just aren’t. Regardless, the centers are apparently staying because certain interest groups like them, so they won’t be a part of the boundary discussions at this point.

DP.

Lots of kids pushed in by pushy parents who retest...

Hasn't been a truly gifted program in years. Many kids pushed into centers to get away from poorer or less desirable elementary schools.

It should go back to the old model. At a minimum, middle school AAP centers should go.

And it is pertinent to the boundary discussion because of the impact on enrollments.

And IB should go away as well in favor of county wide AP. Also impacts enrollments through transfers.

[Anonymous]

They are trying to fold “6th to middle school” into the boundary review. Ostensibly to align FCPS to most of (certainly not all) the rest of the US, which has 6-8 middle school, and to give 6th graders access to a middle school curriculum and extra-curriculars. But the big driving factor is Reid wants UPK. It’s a pet issue for her. And they need space at the elementaries to account for extra preschool classes. Some schools currently have a special education preschool including another class for kids with autism, and some have a pre-K that is income based and/or for kids with IEP’s (and this class is usually only available for 4 year olds due to space restrictions, the special needs classes start at 2). And this would be full day pre K, so no using the same classroom for a morning and then an afternoon class to double up on how many kids can be in one classroom. So with the smaller class sizes that you usually have in pre K and the need for a teacher and an aide for each class … imagine how much more space they will need. I’d guess the equivalent of 3 extra classrooms at an average sized school as some parents will elect to keep their kids in full day day care, which often has a more favorable schedule without the lengthy breaks of the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are trying to fold “6th to middle school” into the boundary review. Ostensibly to align FCPS to most of (certainly not all) the rest of the US, which has 6-8 middle school, and to give 6th graders access to a middle school curriculum and extra-curriculars. But the big driving factor is Reid wants UPK. It’s a pet issue for her. And they need space at the elementaries to account for extra preschool classes. Some schools currently have a special education preschool including another class for kids with autism, and some have a pre-K that is income based and/or for kids with IEP’s (and this class is usually only available for 4 year olds due to space restrictions, the special needs classes start at 2). And this would be full day pre K, so no using the same classroom for a morning and then an afternoon class to double up on how many kids can be in one classroom. So with the smaller class sizes that you usually have in pre K and the need for a teacher and an aide for each class … imagine how much more space they will need. I’d guess the equivalent of 3 extra classrooms at an average sized school as some parents will elect to keep their kids in full day day care, which often has a more favorable schedule without the lengthy breaks of the schools.

Imagine the number of split feeders 6-8 MS would cause. Shows the 8130 categories are just pretext.

[Anonymous]

They aren’t gifted. They are elementary school advanced. Big, big difference. Look at the list of National Merit commended students that was posted recently. That’s just the lowest level of recognition BTW - not semi finalists or award winners.

One of the best arguments I have seen. (Mom of "National Merit commended" student and AP Scholar among many other awards in high school who was not in AAP.) And, she had friends from the Center who were not commended or finalists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can the I hate AAap poster please start her own thread?

This is a discussion about rezoning.

The school board is not touching centers during this rezoning process.

Discuss your hate for centers somewhere else please, since they have nothing to do with rezoning.

There are several people pointing out the absurdity of the AAP center model - not just one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are trying to fold “6th to middle school” into the boundary review. Ostensibly to align FCPS to most of (certainly not all) the rest of the US, which has 6-8 middle school, and to give 6th graders access to a middle school curriculum and extra-curriculars. But the big driving factor is Reid wants UPK. It’s a pet issue for her. And they need space at the elementaries to account for extra preschool classes. Some schools currently have a special education preschool including another class for kids with autism, and some have a pre-K that is income based and/or for kids with IEP’s (and this class is usually only available for 4 year olds due to space restrictions, the special needs classes start at 2). And this would be full day pre K, so no using the same classroom for a morning and then an afternoon class to double up on how many kids can be in one classroom. So with the smaller class sizes that you usually have in pre K and the need for a teacher and an aide for each class … imagine how much more space they will need. I’d guess the equivalent of 3 extra classrooms at an average sized school as some parents will elect to keep their kids in full day day care, which often has a more favorable schedule without the lengthy breaks of the schools.

The idea of switching schools to a 6-8 model is terrible. 7/8 grades are a very special, awkward time in life and it makes sense to keep these kids together. 6th graders deserve to have one last year of "childhood." Why should we rush the 6th graders off to middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

They aren’t gifted. They are elementary school advanced. Big, big difference. Look at the list of National Merit commended students that was posted recently. That’s just the lowest level of recognition BTW - not semi finalists or award winners.

One of the best arguments I have seen. (Mom of "National Merit commended" student and AP Scholar among many other awards in high school who was not in AAP.) And, she had friends from the Center who were not commended or finalists.

+100
Deciding who is and is not "advanced" (not even going to say "gifted") in the 2nd grade is ridiculous. These are little children who have a ton of developing ahead of them. Advanced classes should absolutely be available - but to ALL students, based on ability - not some random test score.

[Anonymous]

There are several people pointing out the absurdity of the AAP center model - not just one.

+1

The one who says her child is "truly gifted" is clueless. If her child is "truly gifted" she'd know that AAP is not composed of "truly gifted" kids.