Study: "Discussions of D.C. public school options in an online forum" (yes, this one)

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I assume that you are one of the authors so would you mind ending the charade and letting us know which one?

Scholars are judged by their work. I don't care about credentials. What do you say about the inherent sampling errors resulting from the geographic concentration of our user base? What do you say about the failure to correct samples for school size? What do you say about the fact that the report compares attention to charter schools which draw upon the entire District for their students to neighborhood schools that draw from a defined boundary? These are all basic data analysis errors that don't require a Harvard education to identify (and, to be clear, I found them and have no such education).

Please drop the condescension. There are legitimate problems with this report. It may hurt your feelings to acknowledge them, but this is not about feelings -- yours or mine.

so sticking with option b

LOL. So typical. Credentials don't replace substance. Get back to us when you have something substantive to contribute.

Jeff, go easy on the poor RA.

He worked for Jayapal, so that’s good.
On the other hand, his Instagram handle (kid you not) is @jgoodlookin.

He’s young. He just got out of college and he doesn’t have any real empirical training.
He’ll figure out the substance as he get older and gets more experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:I assume that you are one of the authors so would you mind ending the charade and letting us know which one?

Scholars are judged by their work. I don't care about credentials. What do you say about the inherent sampling errors resulting from the geographic concentration of our user base? What do you say about the failure to correct samples for school size? What do you say about the fact that the report compares attention to charter schools which draw upon the entire District for their students to neighborhood schools that draw from a defined boundary? These are all basic data analysis errors that don't require a Harvard education to identify (and, to be clear, I found them and have no such education).

Please drop the condescension. There are legitimate problems with this report. It may hurt your feelings to acknowledge them, but this is not about feelings -- yours or mine.

so sticking with option b

LOL. So typical. Credentials don't replace substance. Get back to us when you have something substantive to contribute.

Jeff, go easy on the poor RA.

He worked for Jayapal, so that’s good.
On the other hand, his Instagram handle (kid you not) is @jgoodlookin.

He’s young. He just got out of college and he doesn’t have any real empirical training.
He’ll figure out the substance as he get older and gets more experience.

Ok that's creepy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

New poster. I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, but here are the hard facts:

- U.S. News ranked Eastern High School 11,277th. out of the 17,792 U.S. public high schools it analyzed.

- In 2019, 25% of the 128 students at EHS who took the PARCC ELA test scored a 4+, up from the 11% of the 233 who took it in 2015. Not horrible, except that it looks like 100 or so low performing kids skipped the test it in 2019.

- Also in 2019, 0.0% of the 136 EHS students taking the PARCC Math test scored a 4+. To quote Dean Wormer, "Zero POINT zero"...

This is not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Why would we want to find out how educated people are? Why would we want to know if people can solve math problems or read and write English?

Shall we throw out the MCAT democratize brain surgery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, whenever you ask people to take a critical look at themselves- the reaction is defensive.

To ask DCUM users if a critique of DCUM users is accurate is naturally not going to end well. Asking people if they are in privileged bubble is not going to go well. Because if you are in a bubble, by definition you do not know that you are.

In general I have found many on this board to be totally blind to the realities of DC Public Schools and blind to your own motivations behind how you move in this space. Is it segregation- kinda sorta. But mostly in the way that we would all select calm.caring, and safe places for our own children.

I think the rub comes in with it is juxtaposed with the self identification as a liberal community with a strong NIMBY action plan.

I'm not at all blind to the fact that my kids have advantages that a lot of kids in DC don't have, including the ability to leave. I just reject to the pejorative framing of "privileged bubble." I grew up in a lot of ways not in a bubble, and it meant I saw and experienced stuff as a kid that I think most parents would want to protect their kids from. Yes, I want to keep my kids from that. But not enough that we're moving to Bethesda (or Tenleytown), just enough that we do put a lot of thought into how to, while following the rules in DC, make decisions that we think are good for our kids. Also, the schools I'm avoiding aren't schools which would be considered average or adequate in most parts of the country - it's not like I'm insisting that my kids have Mandarin or gifted classes and nothing else will do, I just want my kids to have an actual peer group and classes that reflect that.

But also, shouldn't you want to keep all kids from that? The study is pointing out that when white, upper income people act out of their individual self-interest, the result is racially segregated schools. Segregation perpetuates systemic racism, so either that's something that bothers you, or not.

1) My kids live in a racially integrated neighborhood and go to a racially integrated school.
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.
3) If DCPS is interested in making more schools integrated, they have many tools at their disposal. They choose not to do that, and I make my choices accordingly.

What a disrespectful and uneducated comment about Eastern's teachers and staff, not to mention their student body.

Eastern literally had ZERO percent of kids meet Math targets in the last PARCC, and 7% for English. There is no way anyone with options sends their kids there. No way. I think it's terrible the school performs so terribly, but that's not disrespectful.

Maybe using test scores as a barometer for the student experience is the problem.

Cool. Let's use something else. Half the kids were absent 21+ days in 2019-2020, and 70% were in the broader "truant" category of 10+ absences. It was 20% at Wilson.

https://dcps.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dcps/publication/attachments/DCPS%20Annual%20Attendance%20Report%20SY%202019-2020.pdf

Good then your precious child won't be affected by these truants because they won't be around them. But yet they bring down the average so your child can look like a rockstar?

Perhaps more parents at Eastern -- and you -- should consider your children and their education to be "precious." Maybe that's half the problem.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, a few years ago now, DCUM convinced my nervous first time parent self that I would be totally fine moving IB for Ludlow-Taylor and sending my kids there. I know L-T isn’t a Ward 7 or 8 school, but it is also isn’t JKLM — and it especially wasn’t back then — and it’s actually super diverse. I came here hoping to be convinced to try my DCPS IB and I was. It’s been great. I really don’t think DCUM uniformly pushes parents towards whiter schools. It 100% did not in my case. Alternative school was much whiter/more established/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.

It is fascinating that your first stab at how the school might be improved consists of a big group of white parents sending their kids there all together.

I mean, it works if, in your heart of hearts, you think the ways the school is falling short are related to it being predominantly black, and/or if you are (and think your kids will be) uncomfortable in a predominantly black space. But that's what y'all are here arguing that you do not think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Collier, the 2011 valedictorian at Ballou Senior High in Southeast Washington, said the first thing she noticed when she arrived at Penn State University was how intently her fellow students paid attention during class.

“It was like, ‘Wow, everyone’s on the same page and everyone wants to learn,’ ” Collier said. “At Ballou, it wasn’t like that at all. I was always trying to get the students quiet.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/graduates-from-low-performing-dc-schools-face-tough-college-road/2013/06/16/e4c769a0-d49a-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html

Yeesh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.

It is fascinating that your first stab at how the school might be improved consists of a big group of white parents sending their kids there all together.

I mean, it works if, in your heart of hearts, you think the ways the school is falling short are related to it being predominantly black, and/or if you are (and think your kids will be) uncomfortable in a predominantly black space. But that's what y'all are here arguing that you do not think.

Because the comment before that referenced 'white, upper income people', suggesting that those people making different choices was the way to improve schools for all kids. But, yes, taking things out of context is fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
2) Me sending my kids to Eastern is not going to give all kids the things I want for my kids, it's just going to be a bad experience for my kids. And if a big group of white parents decided to get together and send their kids there, the same people who criticize us for not doing that would now be criticizing us for that.

It is fascinating that your first stab at how the school might be improved consists of a big group of white parents sending their kids there all together.

I mean, it works if, in your heart of hearts, you think the ways the school is falling short are related to it being predominantly black, and/or if you are (and think your kids will be) uncomfortable in a predominantly black space. But that's what y'all are here arguing that you do not think.

what’s the point of integration again? to be clear I do not think white kids magically heal a school, but I did think this conversation was about segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Long PP Banneker poster. Glad to see I’m not on an island. Look, I get that it can be scary to be a first. But it’s done all the time. I get the sense that once a DC school gets to about 10% white, it seems ripe for gentrifying for white folk. They usually do this in an concerted, planned effort. (See CH schools and most recently Hardy middle school). Recent parents that have begun to gentrify Hardy are not your typical “racist”, sure. They wouldn’t even consider any DC schools if that were the case, yet alone one that is 80% black. But there is still something inherently racist about not considering one of the top schools in the country. Especially Banneker. I mean it’s not a Lean On Me type school. You’re DC is not going to be jumped for wearing the wrong colors.

Seriously, why haven’t a group of 10-20 families joined together to commit to Banneker the same way they did to Hardy 5 years ago?

Does Banneker want that?

Do white folks moving into Anacostia seriously consider if their black neighbors “want” them to move in at such rapid rates? What about the white families opting into Shepherd (including OOB). This is a new one to me but also, still somewhat falls into #1.

Here's a new excuse: I don't want my children to attend a school with boosters as hostile and annoying as you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually do think many liberals in DC are racist with school selection, but as far as Banneker the loads of homework and intense discipline really do put me off a bit. A good friend went there over 20 years ago and that was their M.O. then and doesn't seem to have changed much. It's a school for prepping for college but there's not (wasn't then, at least) much social fun. Has that dynamic changed?

3.) Banneker is just too hard of a school - See Basis, TJ

Is your white kid off the hook behaviorally where you really care about the “discipline” of a school? Also, what have you done recently to inquire about the school’s “discipline” and intense homework? Private schools in DC and Basis has 2-3 hours of homework a day.

Next.

Are all Banneker parents this strident, hostile, bitter, and unkind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, a few years ago now, DCUM convinced my nervous first time parent self that I would be totally fine moving IB for Ludlow-Taylor and sending my kids there. I know L-T isn’t a Ward 7 or 8 school, but it is also isn’t JKLM — and it especially wasn’t back then — and it’s actually super diverse. I came here hoping to be convinced to try my DCPS IB and I was. It’s been great. I really don’t think DCUM uniformly pushes parents towards whiter schools. It 100% did not in my case. Alternative school was much whiter/more established/etc.

Yes, I've seen this, too. The local email list was probably more helpful than DCUM, but overall I think DCUM has helped some local DCPS that may have been overlooked or assumed to be "bad schools."

Charters, too. Mary McLeod Bethune comes to mind as one majority Black school that gets decently positive coverage here (justified or not is another conversation).

[Anonymous]

It is sad how this so-called report has divided parents and we are now fighting each other about who is the bigger racist when we should all unite and hold DCPS accountable for their failures. What is the chancellor being paid 350k for? He even has a government car and chauffeur. To what end? Even if all the white kids were evenly dispersed across all schools, it would not move the needle on educational quality. Who would we blame then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this was really about race, you'd see daycares being segregated too. (Why would all these supposedly racist people wait until elementary or high school to start being racist?)

But has anyone ever heard of a black daycare? Or a predominantly white daycare?

No, no one has ever heard of that.

That's because this isn't about race. This is about public schools in DC being awful and people not wanting to send their kids to awful schools.

Oh, but that discussion is about nannies v. daycare.

i have kids and honestly ive never met anyone who has a nanny. people with nannies seem rare.

That's because we aren't rich. The people who I know with nannies are like my ob/gyn, my boss, etc. Or maybe think not individual nannies, but nanny-shares. Or maybe think au pairs.

But the dialogue there seems to be that the BEST thing is to have a nanny or au pair, then the next is to have a nanny share, then daycares. These discussions are likely also racially coded, in the sense that race and class go hand-in-hand, particularly in DC.

I think you're missing the point. The larger point here is that daycares are extremely diverse (at least all the ones I've ever come into contact with), and that shouldnt be the case if everyone is supposedly as racist as people on this thread to seem assume.

DP. One can opt to send their 8 month old to a diverse daycare or even have a black nanny. I am a “what’s wrong with Banneker poster” and I have to say, I still don’t think people opting out of Banneker are outright racist. Again, they wouldn’t live in DC, Petworth, Columbia Heights if that were the case. They wouldn’t send their kid to even Wilson. The issue is, there is definitely something racially motivating driving some white families to not look at Banneker. I see it happen all the time. White people are fine with a safe number of people that don’t look like them, but when it gets closer to 75-80%, the comfort level changes. There have been many studies in here that show white families, all things equal, will choose to self-segregate or even have racial components e a driving factor for them. Let’s admit, many of the racial issues of our entire country are due to “some” white men dealing with the fact that they are losing their power in numbers and are realizing they are no longer going to be a majority in this country.

I am not asking families to opt into a failing Eastern as some people keep taking about. I’m simply asking for a reason people don’t look at a top 100 school that’s centrally located with metro accessibility.

Because Banneker isn't 75-80% non-white, it's 98% non-white. It would take a very self-confident student who is super comfortable not only with being the "only" but also with dealing with their own biases and having those conversations to attend Banneker as a 2%-er. I want you to consider your own white kids and if you would expect them to attend Banneker - not only they need to be that amazingly racially sensitive and honestly a standout human, but also willing to take on the workload and style of Banneker!

The other alternative is to band together a small group of white kids to attend Banneker - that would be an interesting social experiment but sounds a lot like let's gentrify Banneker.

I admit I would LOVE my kid to be that one kid who feels totally awesome at Banneker. Thanks for giving me a goal. But living in DC, that's not likely. This ish is hard.

dude this is the life of black people like every day, figuring out how to navigate 98% white spaces they manage to be "amazingly racially sensitive and honestly a standout human"

white people can do it too!

We are talking about DC, aren't we? Figuring out how to navigate 98% white spaces? Neither my EOTP neighborhood, nor either of my children's EOTP charters, are even 50% white.