"Opening up" means risking your life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not saying don't test. I'm asking what we do with those that test positive?. And if you test everyone, it has to become a round robin because someone could test negative on day 1 and positive on day 3. When one wears a mask, they don't spread the virus to other near as readily as without. And if the other person also has a mask, then they don't get it either. Washing hands takes care of contact.

Again, aren't people already out there putting their lives on the line so that others can not take the risk?

Yes. But having the majority of people stay home is also protecting those frontline workers by keeping public spaces less crowded and generally slowing the spread of the disease.

Also, testing is not about individuals...it's about understanding the infection rate in a community. It would allow communities with lower infection rates to potentially be more open than those with higher rates...and if there is a resurgence, a community can close down before things become catastrophic and hunker down until the outbreak stabilizes. You seem to have difficulty understanding public health decision-making which is done on a population, not individual, basis. I am similarly not a public health expert...but I try to listen and don't assume I know more than people who actually have spent lifetimes trying to understand these things. It's a good thing that neither of us is in charge of making these decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason y'all get to hunker down and get deliveries is because there are other people "going first" to get these goods to you

What’s your point?

I think the point is that all the people who are sitting in their homes declaring that only morons who want to die are going out are discounting the fact that lots of people are already out and making it possible for them to sit barricaded in their homes.

Nobody in this thread has said that people should not return to work in safe conditions. All the deliveries that I am seeing these days are contactless. We are rarely getting deliveries but do pick-ups more often. I see the Grubhub folks doing contactless pickups at restaurants. We have had contactless deliveries at our house. This is exponentially safer than a bunch of folks congregating in a restaurant.

They aren't contactless. People have to touch the groceries, pack the groceries, and deliver the groceries. People have to prepare the food at restaurants.

Those people doing the packing, delivering, etc. don't have the luxury of staying home.

+1

If you’re cool with doing “contactless” food, then there’s no reason why you can’t be cool with businesses opening up with the same rules such as masks, gloves, etc.

In both scenarios, you’re taking a risk of getting COVID, albeit very small risk.

I’m not saying let’s have NBA games, concerts, WWE events, etc, but we can definitely have the smaller businesses such as local shops and wineries and parks to reopen.

I've said about 100 times that that is exactly what I am in favor of. We need testing to identify those who are positive. Contact tracing to find out who else was exposed. PPE to add protection. And socially distant workplaces and transportation to help prevent the spread.

We currently aren't able to do any of this on any sort of scale.

I heard they’re gonna roll out at-home testing similar to a home pregnancy test. That would work well. Combine that with masks (gloves are overkill unless you’re dealing with food ) and you’re set.

I don’t think I want contact tracing, though. That’s too much. I like having my privacy and not exposing others records. Because then it seeps into other Orwellian territories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason y'all get to hunker down and get deliveries is because there are other people "going first" to get these goods to you

What’s your point?

I think the point is that all the people who are sitting in their homes declaring that only morons who want to die are going out are discounting the fact that lots of people are already out and making it possible for them to sit barricaded in their homes.

Nobody in this thread has said that people should not return to work in safe conditions. All the deliveries that I am seeing these days are contactless. We are rarely getting deliveries but do pick-ups more often. I see the Grubhub folks doing contactless pickups at restaurants. We have had contactless deliveries at our house. This is exponentially safer than a bunch of folks congregating in a restaurant.

They aren't contactless. People have to touch the groceries, pack the groceries, and deliver the groceries. People have to prepare the food at restaurants.

Those people doing the packing, delivering, etc. don't have the luxury of staying home.

+1

If you’re cool with doing “contactless” food, then there’s no reason why you can’t be cool with businesses opening up with the same rules such as masks, gloves, etc.

In both scenarios, you’re taking a risk of getting COVID, albeit very small risk.

I’m not saying let’s have NBA games, concerts, WWE events, etc, but we can definitely have the smaller businesses such as local shops and wineries and parks to reopen.

I've said about 100 times that that is exactly what I am in favor of. We need testing to identify those who are positive. Contact tracing to find out who else was exposed. PPE to add protection. And socially distant workplaces and transportation to help prevent the spread.

We currently aren't able to do any of this on any sort of scale.

I heard they’re gonna roll out at-home testing similar to a home pregnancy test. That would work well. Combine that with masks (gloves are overkill unless you’re dealing with food ) and you’re set.

I don’t think I want contact tracing, though. That’s too much. I like having my privacy and not exposing others records. Because then it seeps into other Orwellian territories.

Stop having so much sex on the side and it won’t be a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason y'all get to hunker down and get deliveries is because there are other people "going first" to get these goods to you

What’s your point?

I think the point is that all the people who are sitting in their homes declaring that only morons who want to die are going out are discounting the fact that lots of people are already out and making it possible for them to sit barricaded in their homes.

Nobody in this thread has said that people should not return to work in safe conditions. All the deliveries that I am seeing these days are contactless. We are rarely getting deliveries but do pick-ups more often. I see the Grubhub folks doing contactless pickups at restaurants. We have had contactless deliveries at our house. This is exponentially safer than a bunch of folks congregating in a restaurant.

They aren't contactless. People have to touch the groceries, pack the groceries, and deliver the groceries. People have to prepare the food at restaurants.

Those people doing the packing, delivering, etc. don't have the luxury of staying home.

+1

If you’re cool with doing “contactless” food, then there’s no reason why you can’t be cool with businesses opening up with the same rules such as masks, gloves, etc.

In both scenarios, you’re taking a risk of getting COVID, albeit very small risk.

I’m not saying let’s have NBA games, concerts, WWE events, etc, but we can definitely have the smaller businesses such as local shops and wineries and parks to reopen.

I've said about 100 times that that is exactly what I am in favor of. We need testing to identify those who are positive. Contact tracing to find out who else was exposed. PPE to add protection. And socially distant workplaces and transportation to help prevent the spread.

We currently aren't able to do any of this on any sort of scale.

I heard they’re gonna roll out at-home testing similar to a home pregnancy test. That would work well. Combine that with masks (gloves are overkill unless you’re dealing with food ) and you’re set.

I don’t think I want contact tracing, though. That’s too much. I like having my privacy and not exposing others records. Because then it seeps into other Orwellian territories.

well too bad because they already do contact tracing for infectious diseases and have been doing so for a long, long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, I was at the rally in Annapolis and talked to a husband and wife USPS letter carriers, a Giant home delivery driver who was there with his son who works at a Giant, and two Safeway pharmacists. I work in a Whole Foods shipping center.

The “working class” does get days off and are stronger and need less rest than the keyboard pushers.

Why would the people you describe be protesting to open things up when you are working already? And so to be clear, were you talking to these people through your cars, or did you and the other protesters leave your cars and have these conversations? Because you just said a few posts ago that everyone was in their cars and no one got out.

I was not the poster who said that everyone was in their cars and did not get out.

I talked to the people I mentioned in a parking lot before the rally. Those I talked to said they were either supporting grocery workers or knew people with small businesses. I was their to support workers who are trying to get higher pay as risk compensation. My wife was with me because she is a pediatrician who wants to see select patients she feels cannot be correctly treated only through health conferences.

Show me the signs calling for higher comp for grocery workers?

As for pediatricians, I'm not aware that there's any prohibition against a doctor seeing a patient they feel cannot be correctly treated through telemedicine.

There were signs. I had two of them on my car. I saw others too, but you may have been at the rally at a different time. My wife’s practice will not allow her to see patients until they re-open the office. Your medical practice may have a different policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don’t think I want contact tracing, though. That’s too much. I like having my privacy and not exposing others records. Because then it seeps into other Orwellian territories.

So you wouldn't want to know if you had been in first or second degree contact with someone who was infected. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


There were signs. I had two of them on my car. I saw others too, but you may have been at the rally at a different time. My wife’s practice will not allow her to see patients until they re-open the office. Your medical practice may have a different policy.

So that is on your wife's practice, not the government. Again, I don't think the protest grevience towards the governor is well placed or a constructive use of time.

[Anonymous]

It’s pretty easy for a guy that makes his living at home, and still gets ad money to tell people to not work for 18 months.

Are you willing to take down all the ads and have 0 income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty easy for a guy that makes his living at home, and still gets ad money to tell people to not work for 18 months.

Are you willing to take down all the ads and have 0 income?

Stop arguing against a strawman! Jeff never advocated for this...and almost no other mainstream person has. This entire thread is premised on the idea of what the pre-requisites for safely re-opening would be. I can't tell if everyone criticizing it is arguing that it's complete madness to expect the richest country in the history of the earth to be able to manufacture enough masks and testing reagents to reopen safely, or if they are just idiots incapable of understanding nuance beyond, "open good, closed bad".

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason y'all get to hunker down and get deliveries is because there are other people "going first" to get these goods to you

What’s your point?

I think the point is that all the people who are sitting in their homes declaring that only morons who want to die are going out are discounting the fact that lots of people are already out and making it possible for them to sit barricaded in their homes.

Nobody in this thread has said that people should not return to work in safe conditions. All the deliveries that I am seeing these days are contactless. We are rarely getting deliveries but do pick-ups more often. I see the Grubhub folks doing contactless pickups at restaurants. We have had contactless deliveries at our house. This is exponentially safer than a bunch of folks congregating in a restaurant.

They aren't contactless. People have to touch the groceries, pack the groceries, and deliver the groceries. People have to prepare the food at restaurants.

Those people doing the packing, delivering, etc. don't have the luxury of staying home.

+1

If you’re cool with doing “contactless” food, then there’s no reason why you can’t be cool with businesses opening up with the same rules such as masks, gloves, etc.

In both scenarios, you’re taking a risk of getting COVID, albeit very small risk.

I’m not saying let’s have NBA games, concerts, WWE events, etc, but we can definitely have the smaller businesses such as local shops and wineries and parks to reopen.

I've said about 100 times that that is exactly what I am in favor of. We need testing to identify those who are positive. Contact tracing to find out who else was exposed. PPE to add protection. And socially distant workplaces and transportation to help prevent the spread.

We currently aren't able to do any of this on any sort of scale.

What do you mean when you say testing to identify those who are positive. Get specific what does that mean? It should be assumed if you have symptoms you are positive that doesn't require a test ties into contact tracing

Contact tracing is being done to limit outbreaks in most of the United States and has been going on since day one. That doesn't require a test 14 day quarantine if you have been exposed to someone with symptoms.

PPE is a mask and social distancing for most folks unless you are a medical professional

Guess what this is exactly what SK and Germany area doing

So again for the last time Jeff what is your point on testing besides the fact that you are a partisan democrat and that's their current talking point testing testing testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff's logic doesnt make sense. On one hand he doesnt want death, yet in another thread he was talking about a walk in Rock Creek Park the other day. Another hypocritical statement with political overtures I'm guessing

Yes, I walked in Rock Creek Park because daily exercise is necessary to maintain good health. I stayed more than six feet from anyone else. When I saw that the park became crowded, I began wearing a mask during walks, while still maintaining a safe distance from others. Then, I hurt my foot and haven't been able to walk for a few days.

If we could reopen the economy while allowing everyone to maintain similar conditions as I do on my walks, I would strongly support reopening. But, in fact, we can't so I don't. That is consistency rather than hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is demanding that the working class risk its health while you continue to protect yours.

That's exactly the guidance from the task force, yet I'm sure you don't watch the presser or read the literature because you despise the leader. I'm out every day and see many others doing the same.

I watch the press conference every day. Yesterday I saw Trump supporting protesters who violated every guideline. So I don’t have confidence in his leadership.

Wrong again, he supported the constitutional rights of them. I saw social distancing in Michigan and the Maryland protests. They were all in cars circling the state house fwiw. In virginia trump commented on 2nd amendment rights, but you do you! Just like your walks in RCP, these protesters practiced safe distancing after being in quarantine for 14 days per the guidelines.

Safe distancing according to PP:

A newspaper in Sacramento? Doctored or stock photos have been used many times by the complicit media in the past. Keep trying Jeffy

Don't you feel stupid now?

Even if you don't feel stupid, you sure do look it!

From this angle on can argue that I'm stupid. But I can equally call you stupid as the people behind the first row are social distancing at least 6 feet and those close to each other are related and have already been quarantined for at least 4 weeks per Dewines order on March 15th. Keep trying you single digit IQ tool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only reason y'all get to hunker down and get deliveries is because there are other people "going first" to get these goods to you

What’s your point?

I think the point is that all the people who are sitting in their homes declaring that only morons who want to die are going out are discounting the fact that lots of people are already out and making it possible for them to sit barricaded in their homes.

Nobody in this thread has said that people should not return to work in safe conditions. All the deliveries that I am seeing these days are contactless. We are rarely getting deliveries but do pick-ups more often. I see the Grubhub folks doing contactless pickups at restaurants. We have had contactless deliveries at our house. This is exponentially safer than a bunch of folks congregating in a restaurant.

They aren't contactless. People have to touch the groceries, pack the groceries, and deliver the groceries. People have to prepare the food at restaurants.

Those people doing the packing, delivering, etc. don't have the luxury of staying home.

+1

If you’re cool with doing “contactless” food, then there’s no reason why you can’t be cool with businesses opening up with the same rules such as masks, gloves, etc.

In both scenarios, you’re taking a risk of getting COVID, albeit very small risk.

I’m not saying let’s have NBA games, concerts, WWE events, etc, but we can definitely have the smaller businesses such as local shops and wineries and parks to reopen.

I've said about 100 times that that is exactly what I am in favor of. We need testing to identify those who are positive. Contact tracing to find out who else was exposed. PPE to add protection. And socially distant workplaces and transportation to help prevent the spread.

We currently aren't able to do any of this on any sort of scale.

What do you mean when you say testing to identify those who are positive. Get specific what does that mean? It should be assumed if you have symptoms you are positive that doesn't require a test ties into contact tracing

Contact tracing is being done to limit outbreaks in most of the United States and has been going on since day one. That doesn't require a test 14 day quarantine if you have been exposed to someone with symptoms.

PPE is a mask and social distancing for most folks unless you are a medical professional

Guess what this is exactly what SK and Germany area doing

So again for the last time Jeff what is your point on testing besides the fact that you are a partisan democrat and that's their current talking point testing testing testing.

Republican and Democratic governors both say they don’t have enough testing materials.

PPE is still short at hospitals, and also for other public facing workers like delivery and groceries.

Contract tracing capability is nowhere where it needs to be — we basically gave up.

We are far, far from being like Korea and Germany, as evidenced by our numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What do you mean when you say testing to identify those who are positive. Get specific what does that mean? It should be assumed if you have symptoms you are positive that doesn't require a test ties into contact tracing

Contact tracing is being done to limit outbreaks in most of the United States and has been going on since day one. That doesn't require a test 14 day quarantine if you have been exposed to someone with symptoms.

PPE is a mask and social distancing for most folks unless you are a medical professional

Guess what this is exactly what SK and Germany area doing

So again for the last time Jeff what is your point on testing besides the fact that you are a partisan democrat and that's their current talking point testing testing testing.

No one is quarantining for 14 days after contact based on symptoms alone!! That would be absolutely insane...and result in a situation no different than we're in now. Are you seriously arguing that the "re-opening" policy should be that anytime a person is near someone who coughs, they should quarantine for 14 days? Because that's what you are describing.

SK and Germany have much higher rates of testing than we do...so I have no idea WTF you are prattling on about WRT testing being some kind of Democratic talking point. Testing on a broader scale than what we have is a critical part of any re-opening strategy...everyone from the Heritage Foundation to Bernie Sanders agrees with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only reason y'all get to hunker down and get deliveries is because there are other people "going first" to get these goods to you

Yes, this.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
What do you mean when you say testing to identify those who are positive. Get specific what does that mean? It should be assumed if you have symptoms you are positive that doesn't require a test ties into contact tracing

Contact tracing is being done to limit outbreaks in most of the United States and has been going on since day one. That doesn't require a test 14 day quarantine if you have been exposed to someone with symptoms.

PPE is a mask and social distancing for most folks unless you are a medical professional

Guess what this is exactly what SK and Germany area doing

So again for the last time Jeff what is your point on testing besides the fact that you are a partisan democrat and that's their current talking point testing testing testing.

There are two types of tests that we need. The first is to identify who is currently infectious. They can be symptomatic or asymptomatic. You don't seem to care about the asymptomatic though they can actually more important to identify. These should be prioritized towards front line workers such as healthcare providers, grocery store employees, and other essential workers. As tests become wider spread and easier to conduct, the circle of who gets tested can widen. We probably will never get to -- no actually need to -- test everyone. But, there should be enough random testing to sample populations and identify outbreaks early. The second test is for antibodies to see who has had the virus and may have some amount of immunity. Those individuals can obviously be a bit more open though we still need to confirm how much immunity is achieved.

PPE may be a mask but I'll take the advice of medical professionals. More than that may be required. Equally important is the transition to socially distant workplaces. The "open floor plan" office environment is probably going to have to go. Same as cube farms. Maybe a lot of this can continue as teleworking. We won't be able to have workers situation cheek by jowl anymore.

I have little concern about what SK and Germany are doing. I am concerned about what we are doing and we are not doing enough. That is not a Democratic talking point, but one espoused just this morning by Republican Governor Hogan.