Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss Part II

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you as a parent wouldn't take the risk, which is very commendable and shows you have character. However, people being paid huge money will look the other way, as the only on earth who stands to get in trouble is the player, not them. It's easy to say "I had no idea he was on the DA team, I feel lied to," and absolve yourself. Furthermore, a lot of parents are deluded when it comes to regulations and their kid's potential. Their entitlement is more important than what's actually best for their player. Pay-for-play is holding our country back from reaching its potential in soccer.

+1 if you watched the U-17 World Cup recently, it was obvious that other countries are doing something different - and their approach is developing players
who are truly elite and breath taking to watch. They play the beautiful game. US players can't hold a candle to them.
Pay to play & parents who throws money at developing kids who are uncreative and mediocre is a reason the US can't compete on an international level. It will catch up with the girls side eventually too.

Not sure how you can watch Andrew Carleton and Josh Sargent and arrive at that conclusion, but whatever floats your boat.

Agree, and not sure how someone could watch Erik Palmer Brown, Tyler Adams, and Justen Glad in the U20 World Cup and be so dismissive either. But I think a lot of people who like to make these comments don't actually follow the youth game or pay attention to what's going on in the current US youth landscape.

Sure, a few up and coming, but still not the breadth and depth of several of the non-US U17 & U20 teams.
This article gives a good overview of how pay to play is keeping the US from developing a national team with truly elite players: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you as a parent wouldn't take the risk, which is very commendable and shows you have character. However, people being paid huge money will look the other way, as the only on earth who stands to get in trouble is the player, not them. It's easy to say "I had no idea he was on the DA team, I feel lied to," and absolve yourself. Furthermore, a lot of parents are deluded when it comes to regulations and their kid's potential. Their entitlement is more important than what's actually best for their player. Pay-for-play is holding our country back from reaching its potential in soccer.

+1 if you watched the U-17 World Cup recently, it was obvious that other countries are doing something different - and their approach is developing players
who are truly elite and breath taking to watch. They play the beautiful game. US players can't hold a candle to them.
Pay to play & parents who throws money at developing kids who are uncreative and mediocre is a reason the US can't compete on an international level. It will catch up with the girls side eventually too.

Not sure how you can watch Andrew Carleton and Josh Sargent and arrive at that conclusion, but whatever floats your boat.

Agree, and not sure how someone could watch Erik Palmer Brown, Tyler Adams, and Justen Glad in the U20 World Cup and be so dismissive either. But I think a lot of people who like to make these comments don't actually follow the youth game or pay attention to what's going on in the current US youth landscape.

Sure, a few up and coming, but still not the breadth and depth of several of the non-US U17 & U20 teams.
This article gives a good overview of how pay to play is keeping the US from developing a national team with truly elite players: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

I understand that the pay-to-play system keeps a TON of talent out of the system. Maybe it keeps out the very best talent in the US. Even if it does, for how big the US is and for how many kids ARE playing in the pay to play system, the US should still be running over most of the world. Why can't we develop 20 kids out of the millions of kids that are playing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you as a parent wouldn't take the risk, which is very commendable and shows you have character. However, people being paid huge money will look the other way, as the only on earth who stands to get in trouble is the player, not them. It's easy to say "I had no idea he was on the DA team, I feel lied to," and absolve yourself. Furthermore, a lot of parents are deluded when it comes to regulations and their kid's potential. Their entitlement is more important than what's actually best for their player. Pay-for-play is holding our country back from reaching its potential in soccer.

+1 if you watched the U-17 World Cup recently, it was obvious that other countries are doing something different - and their approach is developing players
who are truly elite and breath taking to watch. They play the beautiful game. US players can't hold a candle to them.
Pay to play & parents who throws money at developing kids who are uncreative and mediocre is a reason the US can't compete on an international level. It will catch up with the girls side eventually too.

Not sure how you can watch Andrew Carleton and Josh Sargent and arrive at that conclusion, but whatever floats your boat.

Agree, and not sure how someone could watch Erik Palmer Brown, Tyler Adams, and Justen Glad in the U20 World Cup and be so dismissive either. But I think a lot of people who like to make these comments don't actually follow the youth game or pay attention to what's going on in the current US youth landscape.

Sure, a few up and coming, but still not the breadth and depth of several of the non-US U17 & U20 teams.
This article gives a good overview of how pay to play is keeping the US from developing a national team with truly elite players: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

I understand that the pay-to-play system keeps a TON of talent out of the system. Maybe it keeps out the very best talent in the US. Even if it does, for how big the US is and for how many kids ARE playing in the pay to play system, the US should still be running over most of the world. Why can't we develop 20 kids out of the millions of kids that are playing?

Because we pick the turds. The turd US Soccer President, turd trainers, turd coaches and the turd kids get selected and anointed at age 8.

We DO NOT develop. What we call development is sh*t. We train and run our program like nowhere else in the World. We still train with a straightforward, long ball style that relies on vertical speed and a sense of risk taking with possession. This is not good soccer.

Coaches do not develop. Parents only want wins and tournaments. It's not going to change any time soon. The shining U17 and U20 stars will peter out. Guarantee.

The only hope is the US players that continue to train abroad and the foreign market looking to capitalize on our population. Left to our own devices, we will continue to suck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you as a parent wouldn't take the risk, which is very commendable and shows you have character. However, people being paid huge money will look the other way, as the only on earth who stands to get in trouble is the player, not them. It's easy to say "I had no idea he was on the DA team, I feel lied to," and absolve yourself. Furthermore, a lot of parents are deluded when it comes to regulations and their kid's potential. Their entitlement is more important than what's actually best for their player. Pay-for-play is holding our country back from reaching its potential in soccer.

+1 if you watched the U-17 World Cup recently, it was obvious that other countries are doing something different - and their approach is developing players
who are truly elite and breath taking to watch. They play the beautiful game. US players can't hold a candle to them.
Pay to play & parents who throws money at developing kids who are uncreative and mediocre is a reason the US can't compete on an international level. It will catch up with the girls side eventually too.

Not sure how you can watch Andrew Carleton and Josh Sargent and arrive at that conclusion, but whatever floats your boat.

Agree, and not sure how someone could watch Erik Palmer Brown, Tyler Adams, and Justen Glad in the U20 World Cup and be so dismissive either. But I think a lot of people who like to make these comments don't actually follow the youth game or pay attention to what's going on in the current US youth landscape.

Sure, a few up and coming, but still not the breadth and depth of several of the non-US U17 & U20 teams.
This article gives a good overview of how pay to play is keeping the US from developing a national team with truly elite players: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

I understand that the pay-to-play system keeps a TON of talent out of the system. Maybe it keeps out the very best talent in the US. Even if it does, for how big the US is and for how many kids ARE playing in the pay to play system, the US should still be running over most of the world. Why can't we develop 20 kids out of the millions of kids that are playing?

Because their development is too structured/rigid and sunpervised. Most kids don't have soccer in their blood or an innate love of the game that has them kicking the ball around whenever they can get their feet on it. Kids from poorer countries will make a ball out of whatever they can get their hands on and play impromptu pickup games. US kids for the most part don't do that.

[Anonymous]

^^ I agree with the analysis of the predominant playing style. We still don't even train proper possession style. We still predominantly revert to the vertical physical speed aspect. I have seen it all of the time in this area. You can have a very, very smart player that knows where to move and where to play the ball---that can be explosive once he receives it or once he tries to regain possession. Ball handling remarkable---Clubs will still pick the dummy that runs like a racehorse straight down the field--and he possesses some ball skill as well the deem him the 'future'. Ball skill is a small part of the equation, but we are in the era that if a kid can do some fancy stuff---even it it amounts to absolutely nothing--he is the best. He doesn't know when to pass and when to dribble--and constantly dribbles it into the ground--but he is fast and fancy. Coaches here aren't trained to select and develop players properly. The attributes selected for in our tryouts aren't the same ones elsewhere in the World.

Coaches can't recognize soccer IQ. The most valued commodity everywhere else in the World.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you as a parent wouldn't take the risk, which is very commendable and shows you have character. However, people being paid huge money will look the other way, as the only on earth who stands to get in trouble is the player, not them. It's easy to say "I had no idea he was on the DA team, I feel lied to," and absolve yourself. Furthermore, a lot of parents are deluded when it comes to regulations and their kid's potential. Their entitlement is more important than what's actually best for their player. Pay-for-play is holding our country back from reaching its potential in soccer.

+1 if you watched the U-17 World Cup recently, it was obvious that other countries are doing something different - and their approach is developing players
who are truly elite and breath taking to watch. They play the beautiful game. US players can't hold a candle to them.
Pay to play & parents who throws money at developing kids who are uncreative and mediocre is a reason the US can't compete on an international level. It will catch up with the girls side eventually too.

Not sure how you can watch Andrew Carleton and Josh Sargent and arrive at that conclusion, but whatever floats your boat.

Agree, and not sure how someone could watch Erik Palmer Brown, Tyler Adams, and Justen Glad in the U20 World Cup and be so dismissive either. But I think a lot of people who like to make these comments don't actually follow the youth game or pay attention to what's going on in the current US youth landscape.

Sure, a few up and coming, but still not the breadth and depth of several of the non-US U17 & U20 teams.
This article gives a good overview of how pay to play is keeping the US from developing a national team with truly elite players: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

I understand that the pay-to-play system keeps a TON of talent out of the system. Maybe it keeps out the very best talent in the US. Even if it does, for how big the US is and for how many kids ARE playing in the pay to play system, the US should still be running over most of the world. Why can't we develop 20 kids out of the millions of kids that are playing?

Because their development is too structured/rigid and sunpervised. Most kids don't have soccer in their blood or an innate love of the game that has them kicking the ball around whenever they can get their feet on it. Kids from poorer countries will make a ball out of whatever they can get their hands on and play impromptu pickup games. US kids for the most part don't do that.

Some of the pay to play do have a ball constantly at their feet and play pick up with kids that can't afford to pay to play. What happens to them???? They get in our shitty club Travel system which drills all of this creativity and instinct right out of them. From age 7 on they are spending most of their playing time standing around at practice with other kids f*cking off and getting nothing out of it, but eventual boredom and by the end of the season that can't wait for the 3 shitty 90 minute practices to be over so they can go back to having fun in the pick up games. I have seen my kids get worse DURING the season---and I can't wait for it to end so we can go back to pick up and our own backyard training.

[Anonymous]

Excellent responses to the post I made about pay to play not being the only issue. Yes, we do have kids in the US who can afford to play, that play on their own, love the sport, are passionate, have the culture in their blood, have been outside the US, have parents that played all their lives, etc etc etc. We probably have a million of these kids. Yet we can't seem to get them together. I still think we need to find ways to make "elite" soccer more inclusive but the real problem is what the kids are learning and who the coaches are selecting. We need to start there. The question is...how does that change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Excellent responses to the post I made about pay to play not being the only issue. Yes, we do have kids in the US who can afford to play, that play on their own, love the sport, are passionate, have the culture in their blood, have been outside the US, have parents that played all their lives, etc etc etc. We probably have a million of these kids. Yet we can't seem to get them together. I still think we need to find ways to make "elite" soccer more inclusive but the real problem is what the kids are learning and who the coaches are selecting. We need to start there. The question is...how does that change?

It's funny. The soccer landscape is huge in the DMV. I have a U-10 and a U-13. I have worked hard to find training and places that do things the right way. What is incredible, is I'll show up to a training session or camp (not well broadcast) and it will be the same 10 or so families everywhere I go. I always feel confident my instincts were correct when I see these people who I've seen since my kids were age 7 at the same places, clubs, camps, etc.

I will add, we are from all over the area---Maryland, VA, etc---but end up the same places with the same gripes about travel clubs. And, yes, either the mom or dad played at a very high level themselves and are disappointed in the choices/options available. How to get a bigger group? I'm not even sure.

I have tired to wrangle my older child's friends into some of the stuff we are doing---but they are so caught up in team color and winning tournaments, etc. One now has a 14-year old child and is trying to back track and catch up on all the things my kids have been doing since a young age. If the parents weren't heavily involved in the soccer scene as children/teens--it's really hard to get them to understand that what they are being told and sold is crap. So--millions keep paying for it and if their kid moves up a single team they think it's a huge success (not noting any technical skill development, btw---just 'we made the A team!".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Excellent responses to the post I made about pay to play not being the only issue. Yes, we do have kids in the US who can afford to play, that play on their own, love the sport, are passionate, have the culture in their blood, have been outside the US, have parents that played all their lives, etc etc etc. We probably have a million of these kids. Yet we can't seem to get them together. I still think we need to find ways to make "elite" soccer more inclusive but the real problem is what the kids are learning and who the coaches are selecting. We need to start there. The question is...how does that change?

It's funny. The soccer landscape is huge in the DMV. I have a U-10 and a U-13. I have worked hard to find training and places that do things the right way. What is incredible, is I'll show up to a training session or camp (not well broadcast) and it will be the same 10 or so families everywhere I go. I always feel confident my instincts were correct when I see these people who I've seen since my kids were age 7 at the same places, clubs, camps, etc.

I will add, we are from all over the area---Maryland, VA, etc---but end up the same places with the same gripes about travel clubs. And, yes, either the mom or dad played at a very high level themselves and are disappointed in the choices/options available. How to get a bigger group? I'm not even sure.

I have tired to wrangle my older child's friends into some of the stuff we are doing---but they are so caught up in team color and winning tournaments, etc. One now has a 14-year old child and is trying to back track and catch up on all the things my kids have been doing since a young age. If the parents weren't heavily involved in the soccer scene as children/teens--it's really hard to get them to understand that what they are being told and sold is crap. So--millions keep paying for it and if their kid moves up a single team they think it's a huge success (not noting any technical skill development, btw---just 'we made the A team!".

What places have you ended up at? We do a lot of extra soccer training - Super Y, winter clinics, summer soccer day camps, in addition to the regular team. We moved to a club that isn't as well regarded on this board but is teaching our U14 possession and skills rather than just kicking and aggression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Excellent responses to the post I made about pay to play not being the only issue. Yes, we do have kids in the US who can afford to play, that play on their own, love the sport, are passionate, have the culture in their blood, have been outside the US, have parents that played all their lives, etc etc etc. We probably have a million of these kids. Yet we can't seem to get them together. I still think we need to find ways to make "elite" soccer more inclusive but the real problem is what the kids are learning and who the coaches are selecting. We need to start there. The question is...how does that change?

It's funny. The soccer landscape is huge in the DMV. I have a U-10 and a U-13. I have worked hard to find training and places that do things the right way. What is incredible, is I'll show up to a training session or camp (not well broadcast) and it will be the same 10 or so families everywhere I go. I always feel confident my instincts were correct when I see these people who I've seen since my kids were age 7 at the same places, clubs, camps, etc.

I will add, we are from all over the area---Maryland, VA, etc---but end up the same places with the same gripes about travel clubs. And, yes, either the mom or dad played at a very high level themselves and are disappointed in the choices/options available. How to get a bigger group? I'm not even sure.

I have tired to wrangle my older child's friends into some of the stuff we are doing---but they are so caught up in team color and winning tournaments, etc. One now has a 14-year old child and is trying to back track and catch up on all the things my kids have been doing since a young age. If the parents weren't heavily involved in the soccer scene as children/teens--it's really hard to get them to understand that what they are being told and sold is crap. So--millions keep paying for it and if their kid moves up a single team they think it's a huge success (not noting any technical skill development, btw---just 'we made the A team!".

What places have you ended up at? We do a lot of extra soccer training - Super Y, winter clinics, summer soccer day camps, in addition to the regular team. We moved to a club that isn't as well regarded on this board but is teaching our U14 possession and skills rather than just kicking and aggression.

I'd definitely cut out Super Y.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Excellent responses to the post I made about pay to play not being the only issue. Yes, we do have kids in the US who can afford to play, that play on their own, love the sport, are passionate, have the culture in their blood, have been outside the US, have parents that played all their lives, etc etc etc. We probably have a million of these kids. Yet we can't seem to get them together. I still think we need to find ways to make "elite" soccer more inclusive but the real problem is what the kids are learning and who the coaches are selecting. We need to start there. The question is...how does that change?

It's funny. The soccer landscape is huge in the DMV. I have a U-10 and a U-13. I have worked hard to find training and places that do things the right way. What is incredible, is I'll show up to a training session or camp (not well broadcast) and it will be the same 10 or so families everywhere I go. I always feel confident my instincts were correct when I see these people who I've seen since my kids were age 7 at the same places, clubs, camps, etc.

I will add, we are from all over the area---Maryland, VA, etc---but end up the same places with the same gripes about travel clubs. And, yes, either the mom or dad played at a very high level themselves and are disappointed in the choices/options available. How to get a bigger group? I'm not even sure.

I have tired to wrangle my older child's friends into some of the stuff we are doing---but they are so caught up in team color and winning tournaments, etc. One now has a 14-year old child and is trying to back track and catch up on all the things my kids have been doing since a young age. If the parents weren't heavily involved in the soccer scene as children/teens--it's really hard to get them to understand that what they are being told and sold is crap. So--millions keep paying for it and if their kid moves up a single team they think it's a huge success (not noting any technical skill development, btw---just 'we made the A team!".

What places have you ended up at? We do a lot of extra soccer training - Super Y, winter clinics, summer soccer day camps, in addition to the regular team. We moved to a club that isn't as well regarded on this board but is teaching our U14 possession and skills rather than just kicking and aggression.

I'd definitely cut out Super Y.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Hey, remember when we had a bunch of people who complained about the people complaining about the amount of travel in travel soccer?

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75514/sasho-cirovski-we-need-do-rediscover-our-shared-v.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, remember when we had a bunch of people who complained about the people complaining about the amount of travel in travel soccer?

https://www.socceramerica.com/publications/article/75514/sasho-cirovski-we-need-do-rediscover-our-shared-v.html

Nobody argued FOR the travel. The argument was if you don’t want to travel don’t join a team that plays in a league with lots of travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, you as a parent wouldn't take the risk, which is very commendable and shows you have character. However, people being paid huge money will look the other way, as the only on earth who stands to get in trouble is the player, not them. It's easy to say "I had no idea he was on the DA team, I feel lied to," and absolve yourself. Furthermore, a lot of parents are deluded when it comes to regulations and their kid's potential. Their entitlement is more important than what's actually best for their player. Pay-for-play is holding our country back from reaching its potential in soccer.

+1 if you watched the U-17 World Cup recently, it was obvious that other countries are doing something different - and their approach is developing players
who are truly elite and breath taking to watch. They play the beautiful game. US players can't hold a candle to them.
Pay to play & parents who throws money at developing kids who are uncreative and mediocre is a reason the US can't compete on an international level. It will catch up with the girls side eventually too.

Not sure how you can watch Andrew Carleton and Josh Sargent and arrive at that conclusion, but whatever floats your boat.

Agree, and not sure how someone could watch Erik Palmer Brown, Tyler Adams, and Justen Glad in the U20 World Cup and be so dismissive either. But I think a lot of people who like to make these comments don't actually follow the youth game or pay attention to what's going on in the current US youth landscape.

Sure, a few up and coming, but still not the breadth and depth of several of the non-US U17 & U20 teams.
This article gives a good overview of how pay to play is keeping the US from developing a national team with truly elite players: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

Read that article, it is very good and coming from a UK news organization, you'd think would be more objective. Check out this article as well, regarding the current USMNT and the missing players born 1990-1994. I think it has to do with the US getting the world cup in 1994 and having the players think that being in the World Cup is a given and you just have try really hard without getting any skills.

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/the-missing-years-u-s-soccer-s-development-gap

[Anonymous]

My U-13 is small but has soccer IQ and an obsession with the game. Every weekend he watches the time, gets ready on his own with no prompting from us, and heads to our local park to play pick up soccer with a bunch of Somali adults. He asked them to let him play every Sunday afternoon and they finally let him, now they include him because he can play at their level. It's the best training he gets all week and the most fun he has all week.