So how many IB are going to really be at Hardy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here, let me help with finding a quote from a teacher (see below). Oh, wait, it just says that an award-winning math teacher said that the staff will leave if Mr. Pope leaves. Not a single word against IB children. But go on, person who obsesses about that meeting, give us the cite. You seem so certain that it occurred and you keep repeating it. You must have evidence somewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120501580.html

Hardy Middle parents, staff decry replacement of principal
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 6, 2009

Sarah Bax, an award-winning math teacher at Hardy Middle School in Georgetown, goes back many years with Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee, once her trainer in the Teach for America program.

But Bax had a warning for her old mentor Friday night, after Rhee announced her decision to replace Patrick Pope, the popular longtime principal.

"This is a grave, grave error," Bax said. "This staff will not be here when Mr. Pope is not here."

Bax was part of a standing-room-only crowd of parents, teachers and students infuriated by Rhee's decision to change leadership at the school, home to a highly regarded arts and instrumental music program that draws a predominantly African American student body from all wards of the city.

Having followed the Hardy saga closely while it was unfolding, I would say that whatever Bill Turque wrote is usually the opposite of the truth.

I can't speak to that but I was there and I heard Sarah Bax say what she said. At any rate, I'm still waiting for a cite to show that the Hardy teachers said anything against IB children. Please, let's see some proof.

Turque is an award winning journalist and editor and in my experience, he reports accurately. You may not like how the Hardy story read -- it seems that no one at Hardy came out looking good after the fracas a few years ago and there still seems to be a lot of hard feelings. But, as the saying goes, people are entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty sure that when Hardy hits 50% IB (narrowly defined), whenever that is, it will STILL have a higher percentage of african americans than Deal does, and a higher percent than the private schools in the area, and a higher percentage than the middle schools in MoCo, Fairfax, and North Arlington that many leave DC for.

If folks prefering that are racist, its racist with an asterisk.

This is a discussion of a theoretical 50% Hardy IB world that does not exist. So sure, I agree with you that in this pretend world you have created, any racism should be marked with an asterisk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here, let me help with finding a quote from a teacher (see below). Oh, wait, it just says that an award-winning math teacher said that the staff will leave if Mr. Pope leaves. Not a single word against IB children. But go on, person who obsesses about that meeting, give us the cite. You seem so certain that it occurred and you keep repeating it. You must have evidence somewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120501580.html

Hardy Middle parents, staff decry replacement of principal
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 6, 2009

Sarah Bax, an award-winning math teacher at Hardy Middle School in Georgetown, goes back many years with Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee, once her trainer in the Teach for America program.

But Bax had a warning for her old mentor Friday night, after Rhee announced her decision to replace Patrick Pope, the popular longtime principal.

"This is a grave, grave error," Bax said. "This staff will not be here when Mr. Pope is not here."

Bax was part of a standing-room-only crowd of parents, teachers and students infuriated by Rhee's decision to change leadership at the school, home to a highly regarded arts and instrumental music program that draws a predominantly African American student body from all wards of the city.

Having followed the Hardy saga closely while it was unfolding, I would say that whatever Bill Turque wrote is usually the opposite of the truth.

I can't speak to that but I was there and I heard Sarah Bax say what she said. At any rate, I'm still waiting for a cite to show that the Hardy teachers said anything against IB children. Please, let's see some proof.

Sarah Bax treated my IB child like royalty, and treated other IB children and their families the same way. Also, she treated OB children like royalty. She is one of the best teacher sin DCPS, and deserves a statue, not your disgusting and vile slander.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re # of IB kids-someone mentioned on this thread that hArdy met their goal of 50 IB 6th graders this year and met 100% capacity for that grade as well.

Is that based on DCPS methodology of counting where students actually live or using Principal Pride's system, in which OOB students who attended an IB feeder are considered "in boundary"?

Two observations on this question:

1. it is a good example of the goalpost-moving that occurs with potential Hardy parents. They announce they want something - more IB families - then when they get it, they announce that it's not quite right - not the right kind of IB families. Reminds me of a few years ago - IB families met with DCPS officials and asked for a gifted and talented program at Hardy. They got it - the SEM program - and it's great. But of course, it was mostly ignored by these same IB families because it was not the right kind of gifted and talented program.

2. People who complain about the wrong kind of IB families (ie, families that lotteried into IB schools)....I am not calling you racists. But can you at least understand the perception that this creates? There is some logic to saying "I want my kid to go to school with other kids from his high-performing school because I know these will be high-performing kids." But to say "I only want my kids to go to school with high-performing kids from the white part of town"? How are we supposed to view statements that have that message?

You talk about the "IB community" like there's one person speaking for everyone and choosing for everyone. It's hundreds of families, each family makes what they feel is the best choice for their family. If the school isn't attracting families it's not the families' fault.

Nobody's assigning "fault"...but understanding incentives helps figure out what changes - if any - will really attract IB families. For example, getting rid of the principal that IB families wanted out did not attract IB families. Improvements to academic programs - like adding the SEM program - did not attact IB families even though IB families said it would. There was some other factor at play. And figuring out what that factor is helps make sure that resources are spent wisely. I posit that one factor is race. And that makes me wonder if there is any solution for IB families that will address their real - not their stated - concerns.

This is BS. There are lots of A-A students at Deal and I B families are clam morning to go there. It's something to do with Hardy.

"I'm not racist because other people send their children to Deal" is the new "Some of my best friends are black."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re # of IB kids-someone mentioned on this thread that hArdy met their goal of 50 IB 6th graders this year and met 100% capacity for that grade as well.

Is that based on DCPS methodology of counting where students actually live or using Principal Pride's system, in which OOB students who attended an IB feeder are considered "in boundary"?

Two observations on this question:

1. it is a good example of the goalpost-moving that occurs with potential Hardy parents. They announce they want something - more IB families - then when they get it, they announce that it's not quite right - not the right kind of IB families. Reminds me of a few years ago - IB families met with DCPS officials and asked for a gifted and talented program at Hardy. They got it - the SEM program - and it's great. But of course, it was mostly ignored by these same IB families because it was not the right kind of gifted and talented program.

2. People who complain about the wrong kind of IB families (ie, families that lotteried into IB schools)....I am not calling you racists. But can you at least understand the perception that this creates? There is some logic to saying "I want my kid to go to school with other kids from his high-performing school because I know these will be high-performing kids." But to say "I only want my kids to go to school with high-performing kids from the white part of town"? How are we supposed to view statements that have that message?

You talk about the "IB community" like there's one person speaking for everyone and choosing for everyone. It's hundreds of families, each family makes what they feel is the best choice for their family. If the school isn't attracting families it's not the families' fault.

Nobody's assigning "fault"...but understanding incentives helps figure out what changes - if any - will really attract IB families. For example, getting rid of the principal that IB families wanted out did not attract IB families. Improvements to academic programs - like adding the SEM program - did not attact IB families even though IB families said it would. There was some other factor at play. And figuring out what that factor is helps make sure that resources are spent wisely. I posit that one factor is race. And that makes me wonder if there is any solution for IB families that will address their real - not their stated - concerns.

This is BS. There are lots of A-A students at Deal and I B families are clam morning to go there. It's something to do with Hardy.

"I'm not racist because other people send their children to Deal" is the new "Some of my best friends are black."

This is nonsensical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here, let me help with finding a quote from a teacher (see below). Oh, wait, it just says that an award-winning math teacher said that the staff will leave if Mr. Pope leaves. Not a single word against IB children. But go on, person who obsesses about that meeting, give us the cite. You seem so certain that it occurred and you keep repeating it. You must have evidence somewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120501580.html

Hardy Middle parents, staff decry replacement of principal
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 6, 2009

Sarah Bax, an award-winning math teacher at Hardy Middle School in Georgetown, goes back many years with Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee, once her trainer in the Teach for America program.

But Bax had a warning for her old mentor Friday night, after Rhee announced her decision to replace Patrick Pope, the popular longtime principal.

"This is a grave, grave error," Bax said. "This staff will not be here when Mr. Pope is not here."

Bax was part of a standing-room-only crowd of parents, teachers and students infuriated by Rhee's decision to change leadership at the school, home to a highly regarded arts and instrumental music program that draws a predominantly African American student body from all wards of the city.

Having followed the Hardy saga closely while it was unfolding, I would say that whatever Bill Turque wrote is usually the opposite of the truth.

I can't speak to that but I was there and I heard Sarah Bax say what she said. At any rate, I'm still waiting for a cite to show that the Hardy teachers said anything against IB children. Please, let's see some proof.

Sarah Bax treated my IB child like royalty, and treated other IB children and their families the same way. Also, she treated OB children like royalty. She is one of the best teacher sin DCPS, and deserves a statue, not your disgusting and vile slander.

Yes, she is an amazing teacher. She challenged my kid to work very hard and she did it with a helpful, supportive spirit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight, my kids are at a JKLM IB for Deal.

The defense of not wanting high OOB number has long been that the students are not equally prepared or they are disruptive or whatever. The idea that parents now are saying that the primary reason they want high IB numbers is for proximity to their child's friends is ridiculous. Parents choosing private over Hardy are not concerned with geographic proximity to friends. Parents choosing Latin or Basis over Hardy are not doing it for the geographic proximity to friends. They are concerned with the cohort their kids go to school with from an academic and SES perspective.

DC is a school district that has long survived through the OOB process, with the WOTP schools being the beneficiary of EOTP families when WOTP participation was not high. This idea is not new from charters.

15:17 - your post screams of racism. If you owned an NBA team and this post got out, you might have to think about selling. Seriously, you are in denial if you think anybody is buying what you are saying.

You don't have to agree, but it is so sad that you have to resort to calling people racist because they value neighborhood schools. As if this were not a valid thing to believe in, or a widely held view, or something that most of us grew up with. For example:

http://www.nea.org/home/39774.htm

just google "death of the neighborhood school"

And of course people choose those charters or private as the lesser of evils, as they see it, but it doesn't mean that they don't value neighborhood schools and wouldn't choose the neighborhood school if they had that option. That was pretty clear in the DME process, I thought: people value neighborhood schools as a good in and of themselves.

I do value neighborhood schools. But neighborhood school in dcps are not the norm and that issue predates charters. Deal has long had a significant OOB population, it still does but the reason families send their kids there in droves is not because of the high IB percentage, it is because of the strong program and strong cohort that also are largely IB.

The statements that ring hollow are that it is not who the OOB students are it is the fact that the don't live in the neighborhood, when said by parents tha turn around and send their kids to schools across town. Bit you moved to a neighborhood school I would find it a little less silly.

I am just as happy with my kids going to school with a cohort of well prepared kids from across the city as with a chort of well prepare neighborhood kids. Students that succeeded at highly regarded elementaries that feed Deal are well prepared students that we should all be delighted to have in our children's schools. Except, I guess, well prepared was not really the problem for many now was it?

[Anonymous]

17:39 here, I meant to say elementaries that feed Hardy,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight, my kids are at a JKLM IB for Deal.

The defense of not wanting high OOB number has long been that the students are not equally prepared or they are disruptive or whatever. The idea that parents now are saying that the primary reason they want high IB numbers is for proximity to their child's friends is ridiculous. Parents choosing private over Hardy are not concerned with geographic proximity to friends. Parents choosing Latin or Basis over Hardy are not doing it for the geographic proximity to friends. They are concerned with the cohort their kids go to school with from an academic and SES perspective.

DC is a school district that has long survived through the OOB process, with the WOTP schools being the beneficiary of EOTP families when WOTP participation was not high. This idea is not new from charters.

15:17 - your post screams of racism. If you owned an NBA team and this post got out, you might have to think about selling. Seriously, you are in denial if you think anybody is buying what you are saying.

You don't have to agree, but it is so sad that you have to resort to calling people racist because they value neighborhood schools. As if this were not a valid thing to believe in, or a widely held view, or something that most of us grew up with. For example:

http://www.nea.org/home/39774.htm

just google "death of the neighborhood school"

And of course people choose those charters or private as the lesser of evils, as they see it, but it doesn't mean that they don't value neighborhood schools and wouldn't choose the neighborhood school if they had that option. That was pretty clear in the DME process, I thought: people value neighborhood schools as a good in and of themselves.

I do value neighborhood schools. But neighborhood school in dcps are not the norm and that issue predates charters. Deal has long had a significant OOB population, it still does but the reason families send their kids there in droves is not because of the high IB percentage, it is because of the strong program and strong cohort that also are largely IB.

The statements that ring hollow are that it is not who the OOB students are it is the fact that the don't live in the neighborhood, when said by parents tha turn around and send their kids to schools across town. Bit you moved to a neighborhood school I would find it a little less silly.

I am just as happy with my kids going to school with a cohort of well prepared kids from across the city as with a chort of well prepare neighborhood kids. Students that succeeded at highly regarded elementaries that feed Deal are well prepared students that we should all be delighted to have in our children's schools. Except, I guess, well prepared was not really the problem for many now was it?

I don't understand your last point -- someone call Rewrite.

There seems to be an assumption that all students who go to a high-performing elementary school (no matter their backgrounds) are well prepared and successsful by the time they leave for middle school. From experience, I know that not to be the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pretty sure that when Hardy hits 50% IB (narrowly defined), whenever that is, it will STILL have a higher percentage of african americans than Deal does, and a higher percent than the private schools in the area, and a higher percentage than the middle schools in MoCo, Fairfax, and North Arlington that many leave DC for.

If folks prefering that are racist, its racist with an asterisk.

This is a discussion of a theoretical 50% Hardy IB world that does not exist. So sure, I agree with you that in this pretend world you have created, any racism should be marked with an asterisk.

The 50% is IIUC the goal for Hardy, and its progess toward that goal that this entire thread is about, and people are sayig they want to know that Hardy is making such progress. And I cedrtainly did not say ANY racism should be marked with an asterisk - I said that the racism of someone who is okay with a heavily african american school for their kids, as long as it is 50% IB to a high SES (and yes, mostly white) area, is racism with an asterisk - its a more liberal racial attitude than that held by most white Americans, and perhaps by most suburbanites from this area.

[Anonymous]

This Hardy stuff has been going on for years, at least since Rhee tried to change the school. For example, see these postings accusing IB parents on suddenly wanting to get their hands on Hardy post-renovation but needing to "white wash" it first. It's no wonder that it's still a tough sell.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/60/144327.page#1284449

[Anonymous]

IB here.

For the of god, the relevant distinction is Feeder versus Non-Feeder.

I have long desired higher in-bound enrollment at Hardy. The sole reason for this is that the four (soon to be five, perhaps) feeder schools prepare students well. To the extent that Hardy is made up of such students, the learning environment will be strong.

Listen, I want my kids to have classmates that live nearby, too. But, what I really want is a good learning environment, and this depends more on Feeder-Non-Feeder than IB-Feeder / Non-IB-Feeder. Parents complaining about the surge of feeder students being all OOB feeder students are undermining legitimate progress. (Not to mention that, from what I hear, this is false.) It is silly, petty and/or loaded with unstated biases. Perhaps racist doesn't apply (it probably doesn't), but you deserve to be called out.

Any increase in feeder enrollment in Hardy is a great step forward. It should be applauded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB here.

For the of god, the relevant distinction is Feeder versus Non-Feeder.

I have long desired higher in-bound enrollment at Hardy. The sole reason for this is that the four (soon to be five, perhaps) feeder schools prepare students well. To the extent that Hardy is made up of such students, the learning environment will be strong.

Listen, I want my kids to have classmates that live nearby, too. But, what I really want is a good learning environment, and this depends more on Feeder-Non-Feeder than IB-Feeder / Non-IB-Feeder. Parents complaining about the surge of feeder students being all OOB feeder students are undermining legitimate progress. (Not to mention that, from what I hear, this is false.) It is silly, petty and/or loaded with unstated biases. Perhaps racist doesn't apply (it probably doesn't), but you deserve to be called out.

Any increase in feeder enrollment in Hardy is a great step forward. It should be applauded.

+1

This was the most uncontroversial, smart, and reasonable statement of the whole thread. I say we shut it down here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB here.

For the of god, the relevant distinction is Feeder versus Non-Feeder.

I have long desired higher in-bound enrollment at Hardy. The sole reason for this is that the four (soon to be five, perhaps) feeder schools prepare students well. To the extent that Hardy is made up of such students, the learning environment will be strong.

Listen, I want my kids to have classmates that live nearby, too. But, what I really want is a good learning environment, and this depends more on Feeder-Non-Feeder than IB-Feeder / Non-IB-Feeder. Parents complaining about the surge of feeder students being all OOB feeder students are undermining legitimate progress. (Not to mention that, from what I hear, this is false.) It is silly, petty and/or loaded with unstated biases. Perhaps racist doesn't apply (it probably doesn't), but you deserve to be called out.

Any increase in feeder enrollment in Hardy is a great step forward. It should be applauded.

Agree that increase in feeder enrollment is a positive sign. I'd also agree that academic performance is more important for many parents than IB percentage.

However I disagree that IB percentage is unimportant in itself, and I disagree that advocating and organizing to increase IB, in and of itself, is somehow questionable and "needs to be called out". It's a completely appropriate and desirable objective, to have Hardy majority-IB (IB meaning students who live within the Hardy boundary).

In your case, it sounds like IB is only a proxy for academic preparation. Then you would be consistent to only evaluate academic preparation. But it is legitimate for other families to also value IB percentage, as an end in itself. In addition to other criteria like academic preparation, test scores, facilities......... uniforms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB here.

For the of god, the relevant distinction is Feeder versus Non-Feeder.

I have long desired higher in-bound enrollment at Hardy. The sole reason for this is that the four (soon to be five, perhaps) feeder schools prepare students well. To the extent that Hardy is made up of such students, the learning environment will be strong.

Listen, I want my kids to have classmates that live nearby, too. But, what I really want is a good learning environment, and this depends more on Feeder-Non-Feeder than IB-Feeder / Non-IB-Feeder. Parents complaining about the surge of feeder students being all OOB feeder students are undermining legitimate progress. (Not to mention that, from what I hear, this is false.) It is silly, petty and/or loaded with unstated biases. Perhaps racist doesn't apply (it probably doesn't), but you deserve to be called out.

Any increase in feeder enrollment in Hardy is a great step forward. It should be applauded.

Agree that increase in feeder enrollment is a positive sign. I'd also agree that academic performance is more important for many parents than IB percentage.

However I disagree that IB percentage is unimportant in itself, and I disagree that advocating and organizing to increase IB, in and of itself, is somehow questionable and "needs to be called out". It's a completely appropriate and desirable objective, to have Hardy majority-IB (IB meaning students who live within the Hardy boundary).

In your case, it sounds like IB is only a proxy for academic preparation. Then you would be consistent to only evaluate academic preparation. But it is legitimate for other families to also value IB percentage, as an end in itself. In addition to other criteria like academic preparation, test scores, facilities......... uniforms

+1

It's great that OOB students that go to a Hardy feeder, like Hyde Addison, continue on to Hardy. They are presumably better prepared than the schools they otherwise would have been assigned to. When you think about it, it's a bit of a no-brainer because the feeder elementary and Hardy offer a better education than they otherwise would have had, and eventually feed to Wilson HS.

The question that Hardy's admin needs to ask itself is why the school is not a choice for IB parents, particularly those that have sent their kids to high performing elementary schools that are in the Hardy feeder pattern. Why is the takeup rate so much lower than for Deal, with similar IB demographics? If Hardy hasn't run focus groups and roundtables with such prospective parents at the IB elementary feeders, then they should. These are parents who have already committed to public school and probably leave it somewhat reluctantly. Listen to them. Find out what they feel they need from Hardy, and try to address it. Whether a school or a business, sales is more than touting and PR. It is understanding your customer's needs and responding to needs to prospective customers, thereby expanding your market share.