So how many IB are going to really be at Hardy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re # of IB kids-someone mentioned on this thread that hArdy met their goal of 50 IB 6th graders this year and met 100% capacity for that grade as well.

Is that based on DCPS methodology of counting where students actually live or using Principal Pride's system, in which OOB students who attended an IB feeder are considered "in boundary"?

Two observations on this question:

1. it is a good example of the goalpost-moving that occurs with potential Hardy parents. They announce they want something - more IB families - then when they get it, they announce that it's not quite right - not the right kind of IB families. Reminds me of a few years ago - IB families met with DCPS officials and asked for a gifted and talented program at Hardy. They got it - the SEM program - and it's great. But of course, it was mostly ignored by these same IB families because it was not the right kind of gifted and talented program.

2. People who complain about the wrong kind of IB families (ie, families that lotteried into IB schools)....I am not calling you racists. But can you at least understand the perception that this creates? There is some logic to saying "I want my kid to go to school with other kids from his high-performing school because I know these will be high-performing kids." But to say "I only want my kids to go to school with high-performing kids from the white part of town"? How are we supposed to view statements that have that message?

You talk about the "IB community" like there's one person speaking for everyone and choosing for everyone. It's hundreds of families, each family makes what they feel is the best choice for their family. If the school isn't attracting families it's not the families' fault.

Nobody's assigning "fault"...but understanding incentives helps figure out what changes - if any - will really attract IB families. For example, getting rid of the principal that IB families wanted out did not attract IB families. Improvements to academic programs - like adding the SEM program - did not attact IB families even though IB families said it would. There was some other factor at play. And figuring out what that factor is helps make sure that resources are spent wisely. I posit that one factor is race. And that makes me wonder if there is any solution for IB families that will address their real - not their stated - concerns.

This is BS. There are lots of A-A students at Deal and I B families are clam morning to go there. It's something to do with Hardy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is BS. There are lots of A-A students at Deal and I B families are clam morning to go there. It's something to do with Hardy.

someone really misses their beach vacation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is BS. There are lots of A-A students at Deal and I B families are clam morning to go there. It's something to do with Hardy.

someone really misses their beach vacation.

I love a good clam morning!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Re # of IB kids-someone mentioned on this thread that hArdy met their goal of 50 IB 6th graders this year and met 100% capacity for that grade as well.

Is that based on DCPS methodology of counting where students actually live or using Principal Pride's system, in which OOB students who attended an IB feeder are considered "in boundary"?

Two observations on this question:

1. it is a good example of the goalpost-moving that occurs with potential Hardy parents. They announce they want something - more IB families - then when they get it, they announce that it's not quite right - not the right kind of IB families. Reminds me of a few years ago - IB families met with DCPS officials and asked for a gifted and talented program at Hardy. They got it - the SEM program - and it's great. But of course, it was mostly ignored by these same IB families because it was not the right kind of gifted and talented program.

2. People who complain about the wrong kind of IB families (ie, families that lotteried into IB schools)....I am not calling you racists. But can you at least understand the perception that this creates? There is some logic to saying "I want my kid to go to school with other kids from his high-performing school because I know these will be high-performing kids." But to say "I only want my kids to go to school with high-performing kids from the white part of town"? How are we supposed to view statements that have that message?

This is just a ridiculous argument. IB means students who live within the boundary for the school in question. It is mendacious to try to expand this definition to somehow include students living in other wards coming from a feeder, and then criticize people for insisting on "the right kind" of IB families. There is only one kind - those who live within the school boundaries.

Aside from the race-baiting which has now reached epic proportions on this thread, I think there is some innocent misunderstanding here, and I blame the charter movement for that innocent misunderstanding. It is the charter movement that has apparently conditioned modern parents to think that it is a universally good thing to attend school with kids from all over the city, and to look upon geographic boundaries with suspicion. That's nice, you are welcome to attend charters if that is what you want, but many people still value a neighborhood school, with kids in attendance mostly from the neighborhood.

For the last few years, Hardy has basically served as a de facto city-wide charter school, with the IB participation no higher than what it would otherwise be if Hardy truly was a city-wide charter. There are many who want to see it become a true neighborhood school, and there seems to be some slow progress toward this (or maybe, quick progress - that question is the point of this thread).

Therefore PP, and others who think that we should only care about student performance, thanks for your input, you are entitled to your opinion. The ideal school that you describe is a charter school and you are welcome to select such an option for your kids. For some other parents, and many IB for Hardy, it is not only student performance, but also IB percentage that is important. (And student performance isn't there yet either, but that's been covered extensively above.)

[Anonymous]

Ha ha! Hardy is the Ludlow Taylor of NW.

[Anonymous]

I have no dog in this fight, my kids are at a JKLM IB for Deal.

The defense of not wanting high OOB number has long been that the students are not equally prepared or they are disruptive or whatever. The idea that parents now are saying that the primary reason they want high IB numbers is for proximity to their child's friends is ridiculous. Parents choosing private over Hardy are not concerned with geographic proximity to friends. Parents choosing Latin or Basis over Hardy are not doing it for the geographic proximity to friends. They are concerned with the cohort their kids go to school with from an academic and SES perspective.

DC is a school district that has long survived through the OOB process, with the WOTP schools being the beneficiary of EOTP families when WOTP participation was not high. This idea is not new from charters.

15:17 - your post screams of racism. If you owned an NBA team and this post got out, you might have to think about selling. Seriously, you are in denial if you think anybody is buying what you are saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight, my kids are at a JKLM IB for Deal.

The defense of not wanting high OOB number has long been that the students are not equally prepared or they are disruptive or whatever. The idea that parents now are saying that the primary reason they want high IB numbers is for proximity to their child's friends is ridiculous. Parents choosing private over Hardy are not concerned with geographic proximity to friends. Parents choosing Latin or Basis over Hardy are not doing it for the geographic proximity to friends. They are concerned with the cohort their kids go to school with from an academic and SES perspective.

DC is a school district that has long survived through the OOB process, with the WOTP schools being the beneficiary of EOTP families when WOTP participation was not high. This idea is not new from charters.

15:17 - your post screams of racism. If you owned an NBA team and this post got out, you might have to think about selling. Seriously, you are in denial if you think anybody is buying what you are saying.

I agree completely with 15:17. Moreover, I fail to see any racism. Folks should stop with the race-baiting dog whistles. I know this is DC, and some people just can't help themselves when logic and reason elude them.

[Anonymous]

Here's a hint - You're never going to get a "neighborhood school" if you all sit around waiting for your neighbor's kids to go first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight, my kids are at a JKLM IB for Deal.

The defense of not wanting high OOB number has long been that the students are not equally prepared or they are disruptive or whatever. The idea that parents now are saying that the primary reason they want high IB numbers is for proximity to their child's friends is ridiculous. Parents choosing private over Hardy are not concerned with geographic proximity to friends. Parents choosing Latin or Basis over Hardy are not doing it for the geographic proximity to friends. They are concerned with the cohort their kids go to school with from an academic and SES perspective.

DC is a school district that has long survived through the OOB process, with the WOTP schools being the beneficiary of EOTP families when WOTP participation was not high. This idea is not new from charters.

15:17 - your post screams of racism. If you owned an NBA team and this post got out, you might have to think about selling. Seriously, you are in denial if you think anybody is buying what you are saying.

You don't have to agree, but it is so sad that you have to resort to calling people racist because they value neighborhood schools. As if this were not a valid thing to believe in, or a widely held view, or something that most of us grew up with. For example:

http://www.nea.org/home/39774.htm

just google "death of the neighborhood school"

And of course people choose those charters or private as the lesser of evils, as they see it, but it doesn't mean that they don't value neighborhood schools and wouldn't choose the neighborhood school if they had that option. That was pretty clear in the DME process, I thought: people value neighborhood schools as a good in and of themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no dog in this fight, my kids are at a JKLM IB for Deal.

The defense of not wanting high OOB number has long been that the students are not equally prepared or they are disruptive or whatever. The idea that parents now are saying that the primary reason they want high IB numbers is for proximity to their child's friends is ridiculous. Parents choosing private over Hardy are not concerned with geographic proximity to friends. Parents choosing Latin or Basis over Hardy are not doing it for the geographic proximity to friends. They are concerned with the cohort their kids go to school with from an academic and SES perspective.

DC is a school district that has long survived through the OOB process, with the WOTP schools being the beneficiary of EOTP families when WOTP participation was not high. This idea is not new from charters.

15:17 - your post screams of racism. If you owned an NBA team and this post got out, you might have to think about selling. Seriously, you are in denial if you think anybody is buying what you are saying.

You don't have to agree, but it is so sad that you have to resort to calling people racist because they value neighborhood schools. As if this were not a valid thing to believe in, or a widely held view, or something that most of us grew up with. For example:

http://www.nea.org/home/39774.htm

just google "death of the neighborhood school"

And of course people choose those charters or private as the lesser of evils, as they see it, but it doesn't mean that they don't value neighborhood schools and wouldn't choose the neighborhood school if they had that option. That was pretty clear in the DME process, I thought: people value neighborhood schools as a good in and of themselves.

^^ this was me again, 15:17, by the way.

[Anonymous]

I am pretty sure that when Hardy hits 50% IB (narrowly defined), whenever that is, it will STILL have a higher percentage of african americans than Deal does, and a higher percent than the private schools in the area, and a higher percentage than the middle schools in MoCo, Fairfax, and North Arlington that many leave DC for.

If folks prefering that are racist, its racist with an asterisk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody's assigning "fault"...but understanding incentives helps figure out what changes - if any - will really attract IB families. For example, getting rid of the principal that IB families wanted out did not attract IB families. Improvements to academic programs - like adding the SEM program - did not attact IB families even though IB families said it would. There was some other factor at play. And figuring out what that factor is helps make sure that resources are spent wisely. I posit that one factor is race. And that makes me wonder if there is any solution for IB families that will address their real - not their stated - concerns.

Let's see. Five principals in three years. Almost daily coverage in the Washington Post. Test scores significantly lower than Deal. Low retention of the few IB kids who do attend.

Then there's uniforms. And teachers who have publicly stated they don't believe IB kids belong at the school.

Stop making stuff up.

Waiting to see substantiation of the statement about some teachers. But the rest of the above is fair.

[Anonymous]

I do not have a dog in the fight either, my kids left DCPS for private school after elementary. But I don't think it's fair for 16:17 to call someone a racist for wanting more of a neighborhood school. Our elementary school was roughly 50/50 IB/OOB. It was a great community for my children, but I would not have liked it as much if it had been 10/90. As much as kids from around the city add to the community of a neighborhood school, it is really nice to have a neighborhood base. Of course academics matter, but community does too. Preferring a neighborhood school does not make someone a racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here, let me help with finding a quote from a teacher (see below). Oh, wait, it just says that an award-winning math teacher said that the staff will leave if Mr. Pope leaves. Not a single word against IB children. But go on, person who obsesses about that meeting, give us the cite. You seem so certain that it occurred and you keep repeating it. You must have evidence somewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120501580.html

Hardy Middle parents, staff decry replacement of principal
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 6, 2009

Sarah Bax, an award-winning math teacher at Hardy Middle School in Georgetown, goes back many years with Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee, once her trainer in the Teach for America program.

But Bax had a warning for her old mentor Friday night, after Rhee announced her decision to replace Patrick Pope, the popular longtime principal.

"This is a grave, grave error," Bax said. "This staff will not be here when Mr. Pope is not here."

Bax was part of a standing-room-only crowd of parents, teachers and students infuriated by Rhee's decision to change leadership at the school, home to a highly regarded arts and instrumental music program that draws a predominantly African American student body from all wards of the city.

Having followed the Hardy saga closely while it was unfolding, I would say that whatever Bill Turque wrote is usually the opposite of the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here, let me help with finding a quote from a teacher (see below). Oh, wait, it just says that an award-winning math teacher said that the staff will leave if Mr. Pope leaves. Not a single word against IB children. But go on, person who obsesses about that meeting, give us the cite. You seem so certain that it occurred and you keep repeating it. You must have evidence somewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/05/AR2009120501580.html

Hardy Middle parents, staff decry replacement of principal
By Bill Turque
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 6, 2009

Sarah Bax, an award-winning math teacher at Hardy Middle School in Georgetown, goes back many years with Chancellor Michelle A. Rhee, once her trainer in the Teach for America program.

But Bax had a warning for her old mentor Friday night, after Rhee announced her decision to replace Patrick Pope, the popular longtime principal.

"This is a grave, grave error," Bax said. "This staff will not be here when Mr. Pope is not here."

Bax was part of a standing-room-only crowd of parents, teachers and students infuriated by Rhee's decision to change leadership at the school, home to a highly regarded arts and instrumental music program that draws a predominantly African American student body from all wards of the city.

Having followed the Hardy saga closely while it was unfolding, I would say that whatever Bill Turque wrote is usually the opposite of the truth.

I can't speak to that but I was there and I heard Sarah Bax say what she said. At any rate, I'm still waiting for a cite to show that the Hardy teachers said anything against IB children. Please, let's see some proof.