Harvard Rejects Trump Admin’s Demands, Going to Court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trump is doing this illegally. The funding is not for him and his political appointees to give or take. Harvard won those grants competitively. They were reviewed by the government scientists and approved. Those same scientists are the ones Trump is firing, also illegally.

The gravy train is coming to an end and the scam is over bud. Harvard better find some other scam to get someone else to pay their expenses.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Respect for Harvard! They are on the right side of this fight.

In my DD's class, more are impressed with schools like Harvard that fight than Columbia that caves.

I can also imagine how easily Harvard will be able to fund raise from alums (internationally and domestically) who are equally proud and want to see their alma mater fight back against this bully.

+100%

I'm an alum, along with my wife, and we plan to make an even bigger donation.

I'm an alum and I'm making my first donation today, as are many of my friends.

Great. They certainly dont need any federal funding with so much more donations now. More reasons why those funds should go to public universities.

The vast majority of the federal funding use has nothing to do with DEI, antisemitism, etc. Much is medical research. Harvard's advances have included Smallpox vaccine, anesthesiology, electrocardiographs, heart valve surgery, pap smear, kidney transplants, pacemakers, insulin resistance, MRIs, identifying the early onset Alzheimer's and colon cancer genes, DNA sequencing, Covid vaccine, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trump is doing this illegally. The funding is not for him and his political appointees to give or take. Harvard won those grants competitively. They were reviewed by the government scientists and approved. Those same scientists are the ones Trump is firing, also illegally.

Republicans DGAF about laws.

They do whatever TF they want. There is no one to hold them accountable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Respect for Harvard! They are on the right side of this fight.

In my DD's class, more are impressed with schools like Harvard that fight than Columbia that caves.

I can also imagine how easily Harvard will be able to fund raise from alums (internationally and domestically) who are equally proud and want to see their alma mater fight back against this bully.

+100%

I'm an alum, along with my wife, and we plan to make an even bigger donation.

I'm an alum and I'm making my first donation today, as are many of my friends.

Great. They certainly dont need any federal funding with so much more donations now. More reasons why those funds should go to public universities.

The vast majority of the federal funding use has nothing to do with DEI, antisemitism, etc. Much is medical research. Harvard's advances have included Smallpox vaccine, anesthesiology, electrocardiographs, heart valve surgery, pap smear, kidney transplants, pacemakers, insulin resistance, MRIs, identifying the early onset Alzheimer's and colon cancer genes, DNA sequencing, Covid vaccine, etc.

Those MAGA MFers are anti science too.

Remember the pandemic?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It’s extortion. No previous White House has ever tried to use the power of the state to steer the nation’s preeminent institutions of higher learning in an ideological direction favored by the president.

“U.S. research universities, and the federal funding that supports them, are one major reason Americans have collected more Nobel Prizes than citizens of any other country. They also help make the United States the world’s innovation engine and the top destination for foreign students. No other country is as adept at converting raw human talent and ideas into cutting-edge products. Research universities anchor innovation clusters such as Silicon Valley, which in turn fuel the country’s economic growth.”

Nearly a month ago, for example, Columbia University agreed to most of the White House’s demands in the hopes that Trump and his team would restore $400 million in federal funding. Not only were those hopes soon dashed — Columbia didn’t get its money back — but the administration soon after proposed installing oversight personnel to help run the school in ways that would make the president happy.

In effect, the White House responded to Columbia’s appeasement by trying in part to take over Columbia.

+100

People cheering for this are puppets. It’s the beginning of a fascist regime. They want to control all of the elite universities so there are no alternative ideas or push back. Much like firing all the IGs.

Obama sent letters threatening universities to install DEI or lose funding. Full compliance.

Obama did not tell schools their federal funding depended on creating entire DEI programs, much less demand to pick students and faculty who shared his party’s “viewpoints.” If you mean trans kids getting to use the restroom that matched their identity, you can’t possibly think that was as consequential as reshaping the ideology of any entire university’s population, as the Harvard letter lays out. I’m all for diversity of thought, but the gov should not be in the business of evaluating what that looks like when it itself swings so dramatically from one election to the other.

Republicans are supposed to favor small gov!

Forcing trans ideology on everyone is not really great either.

And Republicans never favored small government, they favor low taxes and no entitlements or social safety nets. Bootstraps and all that.

Not forcing ideology - enforcing respect for individual human beings, including those with whom you disagree.....Including different viewpoints - isn't that what the Trump argument is here complaining that universities are squashing conservative voices?

They were enforcing compliance with trans ideology.

It wasn't live and let live. It was, do as I say.

What a tiny percentage of the population yo worry about.

Sure you don't have Trans Derangement Syndrome?

You are not winning any converts this way.

It's too late for that.

I'm not hoping to win you. You are clearly nuts and lost sight of the narrative a long time ago.

Right back at you. You are part of the reason trump won

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No one can explain to me what merit means? Is it just SAT scores? If so we’d need a lottery system to make it completely fair or else everyone will whine about something

Every other country in the world has figured out that standardized tests are how you select college students but it's a mystyery to us.

Because you know, Dems have to pander to their special demographic group no one dares to even mention and Asians are easy pickings since they lack political power.

Disgusting bunch of swamped creatures.

Listen Asian
Trump doesn't need you anymore
He's got all the cards. Focus on not getting you and your family disappeared if you happen to not look "American" (pssst... that's not you.)

Stop acting like it choice was angels vs demons.

It was racism from the left vs racism from the right.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Caltech comes the closest to a true meritocracy. Interestingly, the profs are currently far more concerned with athletic admission boosts than racial, as there’s a high percentage of athletes at a school of 1000.

But even at Caltech I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some differences difference based on sex, given there’s more than double the number of male applicants but the student population is 54% male. So, is that an ok exception? If so, how different from other cases? If not, do we lose something? There has always been at least a case for some form of diversity, but arguing we might as well resort to ditching democratic norms if we can’t agree where to draw the line is like burning down the house when you dislike the paint job.

Was it worth the civil unrest and chaos of the 1960s to stop legal discrimination against blacks?
Sure this isn't nearly as bad but it's still racial discrimination and it's certainly worth destroying harvard over.

I bet if you just lined up test scores and GPA, it wouldn't look as bad between men and women at caltech as the difference between blacks and asians at harvard.
I personally don't think we should have gender preferences either but the gap is not obscene

Here's another thing about places like caltech and mit and women. Do you notice anything they have in common?

Wow, talk about discrimination. You sure seem to be up for it when it suits you. The issue with what you perceive as Asian discrimination is cultural, not racial. It's the culture that generates the "Ivy recipe " of violin, robotics, math team, FBLA, golf/tennis etc. It’s about how the students appear in terms of achievements and interests, not race. Also, the constant ratcheting of intensity and achievement means that these kids may not have developed creative or communication skills. Who knows.

You think that not prioritizing students who excel at the recipe is "racist, " but are fins suggesting black students have lesser scores and are therefore less meritorious than Asian. How much prep did both sets of students do? How much enrichment? Hopkins CTY? Math boosted 3 years ahead to get into magnets only for math curriculum to be review because it was already addressed with private instruction? And who believes standard test are the end all be all of merit? Only the parents who invested in them.

Talk about discrimination. Sheesh.

I remember when people were suspicious of Soviet Bloc athletes. They delivered incredible performances for decades but the rumors of performance enhancing drugs became a known fact. People stopped considering them solely on their stats and simply assumed they were juicing.

Admissions officers are comparing kids who just went high school against kids who went to high school + Hopkins CTY + Russian Math + Kumon + Mathnasium + etc.

All things being equal sometimes a kid with a 1500 from a barebones high school looks more impressive.

Many schools have shifted towards lifting kids from economically disadvantaged backgrounds because factoring in race is no longer allowed. I actually agree that race should not be a determining factor, but SES should be. However, this is still making some people angry because their kids are still not getting into Harvard.

If you tell me my kid loses out to a slightly less qualified poor kid, then my kid should have tried harder. But if you tell me my kid loses out to a UMC black kid because of his race and has to do things to hide his race on his applications to avoid discrimination, then fck you. But you can't take that too far either.

The disparity cannot be so large that it becomes obvious. Any sort of preference is an admission of failure in achieving real equality.

You do realize that Trump is actively deporting Chinese students for no reason at all? He is not seeking the admission of more Asian students to elite universities.

That still doesn't excuse your racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CNN
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The Internal Revenue Service is making plans to rescind the tax-exempt status of Harvard University, according to two sources familiar with the matter, which would be an extraordinary step of retaliation as the Trump administration seeks to turn up pressure on the university that has defied its demands to change its hiring and other practices.

Not really that extraordinary. They were doing to have violated the constitutional rights of Asians by discriminating against them. Racial discrimination is how Bob Jones University lost it's tax exempt status.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Tax exempt status next.

It's absurd the Harvard pays no taxes and gets $9B of federal money. Meanwhile their class sizes remain tiny, while they talk about equity and privilege, and play racial discrimination games where a black student has 10x the odds of getting in than an Asian American student with similar stats across all achievement deciles.

Please share a post SCOTUS ruling source for that statistic.

I happen to disfavor affirmative action too, but am often surprised how many rail against that while fine with athletic recruiting. They have the highest admit rates of all, and these are supposed to be academic institutions. Some people are just born more athletic; an average person can’t get recruited with just hard work the way they can get good grades or test scores with just hard work.

They haven't released all their admissions data to the general public. But what days we have shows pretty dramatic racial discrimination. Why are you giving them a pass from stuff they were doing just a few years ago?

Because it wasn't illegal then. 37% Asian for the class of '28 and you're still claiming they are racist against Asians? By the way, most of the Asians who work and study at top institutions, and there are a lot of us, are firmly anti-Trump, because we know better than to think he is on our side.

It was always illegal. The opinion says explicitly:

"For the reasons provided above, the Harvard and UNC admissions programs cannot be reconciled with the guarantees of the Equal Protection Clause. Both programs lack sufficiently focused and measurable objectives warranting the use of race, unavoidably employ race in a negative manner, involve racial stereotyping, and lack meaningful endpoints. We have never permitted admissions programs to work in that way, and we will not do so today. "

It was never legal to discriminate like that.

I don't like trump and I didn't think he is on our side. But I think Harvard was discriminating against Asians and it's weird that you have so much trouble admitting this very obvious fact.

Also, you are either lying or stupid if you are arguing that being overrepresented means you aren't being discriminated against.

So, every Asian applicant should be admitted? And that won't discriminate against some other race?

Every candidate should be judged on merit and not race. I also am stunned that Harvard students any Harvard students are taking remedial math. I don’t care if you are an English major you should be able to take college math with remedial math.

x1,000

How about gender?

DP.

Even gender. But the achievement gap on gender is nearly perceptible compared to the achievement gap in race.

[Anonymous]

Props to Harvard - stay strong!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know any Asian who supports the actions of this administration against universities.

Anyone who uses Asian bias in college admissions to push a MAGA agenda is a troll.

- Asian, who deplores any bias.

I don't support what Trump is doing but the notion that the universities never did anything wrong to deserve any of this is fukn laughable.

[Anonymous]

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I don't know any Asian who supports the actions of this administration against universities.

Anyone who uses Asian bias in college admissions to push a MAGA agenda is a troll.

- Asian, who deplores any bias.

Exactly. You can be upset about (1) the use of DEI and affirmative action and/or (2) the presence of antisemitism on college campuses. But if you think that those concerns somehow validate (or make legal) the authoritarian actions that the President is taking against universities, then you are utterly devoid of critical thinking skills.

We're not upset about DEI. We're upset about racial discrimination against Asians. Stop pretending it was some minor foot fault. They were intentionally limiting Asian admissions which created a fukn hyper competitive arms race that ONLY Asians had to compete in to get into good schools. And it was mostly to make room for under qualified legacies and URM.

[Anonymous]

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I am willing to see harvard destroyed to serve as a cautionary tale against racism, why aren't you? I'd like to see their tax exempt status revoked and all federal funding withdrawn and reallocated to flagship state schools. There is nothing unique about harvard's labs (or any of the ivy league labs) that the research cannot be done elsewhere. If the grants move to UNC, UVA and U of Florida, so will the researchers. I am not happy that they are using a wrecking ball but just like people thought for decades that a little asian discrimination was a small price to pay for racial justice, this temporary disruption in research is a small price to pay for eliminating left wing racial discrimination.

You don't think state schools also practiced affirmative action? (Which was, by the way, legal under controlling Supreme Court precedent prior to the Harvard case.)

There is no stopping point.

No it was never legal. Not the way it was being practiced. The opinion makes that clear.

[Anonymous]

What possible basis does the IRS have for removing Harvard’s tax-exempt status? Can’t imagine it will hold up in court but wondering what their theory and rationale is.

[Anonymous]

Please ignore the “Asian” troll. Don’t reply to them. Those trolls are deployed all over the internet to rile up the uneducated MAGAs. Most Asians will rise up and help get rid of these maga clowns in the midterm and 2028.

- an Asian