Boundaries assessment update 2023

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sounds like it will be looked at this summer as she brought it up again in Glasgow MS meeting yesterday noting system-wide boundaries haven't been looked at in 37 years.

I'm curious to know how segregation-era housing policies were still leaving their mark in the 1980s the last time boundaries were considered. If even now in 2023 there is such fervor against SES integration, I imagine community input in the 80s played a role in creating the disparities we still see.

The changes in demographics and boundaries that resulted in the wide disparities among schools that now exist generally happened after the last county-wide redistricting in the mid-80s.

+1

I don't understand why people think redistricting will help educating kids. It just moves them around. The answer it to take the kid where he is and teach him. And, yes, it can be done. But, it takes work and it is not resolved by "equity" talk. It is resolved by instruction.

Pretty sure most people are aware of that, and the boundary conversation isn't about attempting to help the ESOL kids by moving them. We know shifting them around won't solve anything for their needs.

The issue pertains to either normal or advanced kids whose needs are increasingly difficult to meet at schools where the majority of kids are below grade level. Schools where enrichment opportunities and clubs are scarce due to low levels of parental involvement and volunteering. Not blaming the parents there; they're likely working double-shift service and retail jobs. Not blaming FARMs kids either; they don't have the privilege of savvy parents pushing them into activities like Science Olympiad.

But nonetheless the state of affairs creates a dearth of opportunity in some regions. It's the middle-of-the-road kids that are left in a situation that is too under-subscribed.

The worst schools are on the rt 1 corridor. What neighboring schools have decent enrichment programs? None in the West Potomac Pyramid have anything, the same goes for most in the Hayfield pyramid. Are you going to bus kids from Janna Lee to a school in the West Springfield pyramid because that school offers science olympiad?

DP. The thing that makes me uneasy is the subtext that we need to “level the playing field” by whatever means necessary and that some really would just as comfortable if we did that by taking away opportunities for kids at some schools as by creating opportunities for kids at other schools.

Why they refused to open schools in areas with barely any pandemic impact, when they could have. Wouldn’t be equitable, so keep all 180,000 children out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy peasy. Reassign some of the Marshall area contiguous to Langley in Tysons to Langley and Langley would immediately pick up the largest “all-affordable” housing complex getting built in Tysons - Dominion Square West.

Seems like a reasonable idea and good start.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Langley boundaries are all about exclusivity, not proximity. It’s really quite disgusting in a county run by Democrats that pretends to care about equity.

Once more, who is in proximity to Langley that would add FARMS? No one has yet given a good response to that.

It doesn't need to be adjacent - look at Timber Lane zoned to McLean to add in some diversity. Of course, Timber Lane is likely to lose it's Title I status in the next 10-15 years because white families are buying all the housing that is zoned to McLean but still.

[Anonymous]

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Irrespective of AP or IB, there are more advanced classes offered at the wealthier schools that just aren't at the poorer schools.

But, all those "wealthier" schools don't necessarily offer the same advanced classes. And, when only one class is offered in a subject there are frequently conflicts.

That's fine, but if the board wants to pretend to care about equity or one fairfax, having schools with wealthy students offering advanced programing and multiple AP comp sci classes while schools that skew poor offer HVAC technician courses is a really bad look

That's kind of weird, because the constant refrain is that "equity" and "equality" aren't necessarily the same thing. Equity could mean giving every community what it needs, which in some cases could indeed skew towards more vocational offerings.

Again, there are scores of classes available at IB and/or lower-income schools that aren't available at higher income schools (for example, none of Langley, McLean, Madison, Oakton, Woodson, Lake Braddock, Robinson and West Springfield has an on-site Academy program).

That assumes that students in wealthy school will end up in competitive 4 year universities and need to be prepared and students in less well off schools don't. It also means that the kids at the poorer schools who do have a chance to be competitive are being denied that opportunity. I guess that Langley not having a medical coding class is cool because those kids will be at UVA and VT and a kid at Lewis really doesn't need de compsci classes.

Let the 10 kids who need a full or nearly full slate of advanced classes go to the nearest schools with space and offerings.

[Anonymous]

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They won't move those Langley students to HHS- but not because of enrollment capacity. HHS is at 2300 students- with the recent renovation- capacity is 2500.
Move some from Langley to Herndon. Mclean to Langley. Could get 3 schools to similar enrollment and ease overcrowding at McLean and fill the under capacity at Langley- by #s- make sense.
Will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm making an offer on a house in the extreme north-western part of Langley HS district, near Seneca road. It's in the 7-1 grid of https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/medi...choolBoundaries.pdf. My son is in 1st grade currently, would prefer Cooper/Langley as schools.

Given where things are at, is there any intent by FCPS to move that part of Langley into Herndon HS, has that been proposed or discussed? I saw a comments to that in this thread, wondering if this was ever really entertained.

I mean, yes, sending the far northwestern part of the county back to Herndon HS boundaries is a thing that could happen. A PP alluded to it earlier in the thread, and then the Langley boundaries would absorb one of the ES in the McLean pyramid. But Herndon HS doesn’t have the capacity right now to absorb a whole additional ES into its boundaries. The MS seems to have more “room” because the capacity dashboard shows it with a number of modular/temporary classrooms, but those are unpopular and not meant to be long term solutions. And building the mythical western HS that could change boundaries at multiple schools is at least 10 years away from completion and probably longer than that. So if you have a current 1st/rising 2nd grader I wouldn’t worry too much about it at all.

Langley’s freshman class is significantly larger than the senior class— presumably due to the most recent boundary change and the grandfathering that comes with it.

When it all shakes out in a few years I wonder where McLean will be in terms of enrollment. Still over I am sure, but by how much?

Part of the reason Langley’s enrollment is growing has nothing to do with the 2021 boundary change with McLean and more to do with places like Great Falls getting more attractive again for working parents when many jobs went remote w/Covid.

Um... GF has *always* been attractive for working parent(s). Most people who live there work in Tysons, Reston, Chantilly, McLean, etc., or remotely. Not DC.

Snort. Great Falls was not always considered desirable. Maybe since you became aware of school issues, but not always.

It was the sticks where the farm kids and other “hicks” lived.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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They won't move those Langley students to HHS- but not because of enrollment capacity. HHS is at 2300 students- with the recent renovation- capacity is 2500.
Move some from Langley to Herndon. Mclean to Langley. Could get 3 schools to similar enrollment and ease overcrowding at McLean and fill the under capacity at Langley- by #s- make sense.
Will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm making an offer on a house in the extreme north-western part of Langley HS district, near Seneca road. It's in the 7-1 grid of https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/medi...choolBoundaries.pdf. My son is in 1st grade currently, would prefer Cooper/Langley as schools.

Given where things are at, is there any intent by FCPS to move that part of Langley into Herndon HS, has that been proposed or discussed? I saw a comments to that in this thread, wondering if this was ever really entertained.

I mean, yes, sending the far northwestern part of the county back to Herndon HS boundaries is a thing that could happen. A PP alluded to it earlier in the thread, and then the Langley boundaries would absorb one of the ES in the McLean pyramid. But Herndon HS doesn’t have the capacity right now to absorb a whole additional ES into its boundaries. The MS seems to have more “room” because the capacity dashboard shows it with a number of modular/temporary classrooms, but those are unpopular and not meant to be long term solutions. And building the mythical western HS that could change boundaries at multiple schools is at least 10 years away from completion and probably longer than that. So if you have a current 1st/rising 2nd grader I wouldn’t worry too much about it at all.

Langley’s freshman class is significantly larger than the senior class— presumably due to the most recent boundary change and the grandfathering that comes with it.

When it all shakes out in a few years I wonder where McLean will be in terms of enrollment. Still over I am sure, but by how much?

Part of the reason Langley’s enrollment is growing has nothing to do with the 2021 boundary change with McLean and more to do with places like Great Falls getting more attractive again for working parents when many jobs went remote w/Covid.

Um... GF has *always* been attractive for working parent(s). Most people who live there work in Tysons, Reston, Chantilly, McLean, etc., or remotely. Not DC.

Not saying otherwise, but regardless of where people’s jobs were based Covid led some people to place less emphasis on being close to those work places and more emphasis on bigger homes w/more space. It’s not a very controversial observation.

Precisely - It's why I closed on a house here, recognizing the need to drive children mostly across all of GF to get to Cooper/Langley.

But if they lop off the West end of GF and join it with Herndon HS - I'm getting out.

of course, white flight is your solution! FWIW you don’t need to be white to participate in white flight.

Exactly. What do you think those brown immigrants are doing when they leave their homelands to go to majority white countries?

Running from the brown and black people.

It’s disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't move those Langley students to HHS- but not because of enrollment capacity. HHS is at 2300 students- with the recent renovation- capacity is 2500.
Move some from Langley to Herndon. Mclean to Langley. Could get 3 schools to similar enrollment and ease overcrowding at McLean and fill the under capacity at Langley- by #s- make sense.
Will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm making an offer on a house in the extreme north-western part of Langley HS district, near Seneca road. It's in the 7-1 grid of https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/medi...choolBoundaries.pdf. My son is in 1st grade currently, would prefer Cooper/Langley as schools.

Given where things are at, is there any intent by FCPS to move that part of Langley into Herndon HS, has that been proposed or discussed? I saw a comments to that in this thread, wondering if this was ever really entertained.

I mean, yes, sending the far northwestern part of the county back to Herndon HS boundaries is a thing that could happen. A PP alluded to it earlier in the thread, and then the Langley boundaries would absorb one of the ES in the McLean pyramid. But Herndon HS doesn’t have the capacity right now to absorb a whole additional ES into its boundaries. The MS seems to have more “room” because the capacity dashboard shows it with a number of modular/temporary classrooms, but those are unpopular and not meant to be long term solutions. And building the mythical western HS that could change boundaries at multiple schools is at least 10 years away from completion and probably longer than that. So if you have a current 1st/rising 2nd grader I wouldn’t worry too much about it at all.

Langley’s freshman class is significantly larger than the senior class— presumably due to the most recent boundary change and the grandfathering that comes with it.

When it all shakes out in a few years I wonder where McLean will be in terms of enrollment. Still over I am sure, but by how much?

Part of the reason Langley’s enrollment is growing has nothing to do with the 2021 boundary change with McLean and more to do with places like Great Falls getting more attractive again for working parents when many jobs went remote w/Covid.

Um... GF has *always* been attractive for working parent(s). Most people who live there work in Tysons, Reston, Chantilly, McLean, etc., or remotely. Not DC.

Snort. Great Falls was not always considered desirable. Maybe since you became aware of school issues, but not always.

It was the sticks where the farm kids and other “hicks” lived.

So, then, Langley was not "socially engineered" to be wealthy. So, send something new from Tyson's --but I imagine once it is zoned for Langley, it will go up in price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They won't move those Langley students to HHS- but not because of enrollment capacity. HHS is at 2300 students- with the recent renovation- capacity is 2500.
Move some from Langley to Herndon. Mclean to Langley. Could get 3 schools to similar enrollment and ease overcrowding at McLean and fill the under capacity at Langley- by #s- make sense.
Will never happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm making an offer on a house in the extreme north-western part of Langley HS district, near Seneca road. It's in the 7-1 grid of https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/medi...choolBoundaries.pdf. My son is in 1st grade currently, would prefer Cooper/Langley as schools.

Given where things are at, is there any intent by FCPS to move that part of Langley into Herndon HS, has that been proposed or discussed? I saw a comments to that in this thread, wondering if this was ever really entertained.

I mean, yes, sending the far northwestern part of the county back to Herndon HS boundaries is a thing that could happen. A PP alluded to it earlier in the thread, and then the Langley boundaries would absorb one of the ES in the McLean pyramid. But Herndon HS doesn’t have the capacity right now to absorb a whole additional ES into its boundaries. The MS seems to have more “room” because the capacity dashboard shows it with a number of modular/temporary classrooms, but those are unpopular and not meant to be long term solutions. And building the mythical western HS that could change boundaries at multiple schools is at least 10 years away from completion and probably longer than that. So if you have a current 1st/rising 2nd grader I wouldn’t worry too much about it at all.

Langley’s freshman class is significantly larger than the senior class— presumably due to the most recent boundary change and the grandfathering that comes with it.

When it all shakes out in a few years I wonder where McLean will be in terms of enrollment. Still over I am sure, but by how much?

Part of the reason Langley’s enrollment is growing has nothing to do with the 2021 boundary change with McLean and more to do with places like Great Falls getting more attractive again for working parents when many jobs went remote w/Covid.

Um... GF has *always* been attractive for working parent(s). Most people who live there work in Tysons, Reston, Chantilly, McLean, etc., or remotely. Not DC.

Not saying otherwise, but regardless of where people’s jobs were based Covid led some people to place less emphasis on being close to those work places and more emphasis on bigger homes w/more space. It’s not a very controversial observation.

Precisely - It's why I closed on a house here, recognizing the need to drive children mostly across all of GF to get to Cooper/Langley.

But if they lop off the West end of GF and join it with Herndon HS - I'm getting out.

of course, white flight is your solution! FWIW you don’t need to be white to participate in white flight.

Exactly. What do you think those brown immigrants are doing when they leave their homelands to go to majority white countries?

Running from the brown and black people.

It’s disgusting.

Oh, please. These people are coming for a better life. I think it is wrong to open the border and let his happen, but I don't begrudge people who just want a better life. Unfortunately, there are also criminals coming along with some of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:County is too big. give each pyramid its own school board.

That would be a nightmare for staffing. Plus pay that many more staff members to support the board and central offices?

Not my idea, but staff needed would be smaller and board members would be able to manage tasks themselves that are currently delegated. The physical office space could be small, a suite in an office park or store in a strip mall small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The basic bargain in Fairfax is we get a bunch of Democrats who are far-left on issues like trans rights and far-right when it comes to school boundaries.

Perfect example is snobby Elaine Tholen, who appointed a trans activist to the FCPS Family Life Committee, but fought to make sure not a single apartment or condo is zoned to Langley High.

Lol.

She didn’t “fight.” She said “I propose
we do this” and all the members (save Omeish, who was careful to say she did not oppose based on equity concerns) said “cool” and voted yes.

She didn’t even break a nail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The basic bargain in Fairfax is we get a bunch of Democrats who are far-left on issues like trans rights and far-right when it comes to school boundaries.

Perfect example is snobby Elaine Tholen, who appointed a trans activist to the FCPS Family Life Committee, but fought to make sure not a single apartment or condo is zoned to Langley High.

The board care deeply about equity as long as the poor kids don't start getting crazy notions about being rezoned to better schools

No one has yet answered the question: who would you zone into Langley to make it 30% FARMS?

Someone already answered your dumb question-its not logistically possible to get to 30%. Maybe 10%.

I am the poster who asked the question. I know you are correct, but there are people on this thread who insist that all schools should be 30%. That is why I asked where they would get the students?

My point is that it is impossible to have the same demographics all across the county.

That’s no excuse for leaving Langley at 3-4% FARMS. That only happens when rich snobs like Elaine Tholen and her predecessors make a concerted effort to keep the school free of low or even middle-income kids.

Otherwise you do not end up with a school where kids get bussed 12 miles to attend the school yet it has no apartments or condos. Meanwhile it borders a series of schools that range from 15% to 50% FARMS.

Then, please tell us how you would make Langley 10% FARMS. Where would you get the students to do that and how would you do it.

There are areas in Reston and Tysons zoned to South Lakes, Marshall, and/or McLean that could be reassigned to Langley and would increase the FARMS % there. And every one of those areas is closer to Langley than the Forestville ES area.

Are these areas closer to Langley than to their current high schools? Would transportation be a problem for them? For their families?

What does that matter as long as the FARMs rate is raised and Langley so that pp gets…. some emotional satisfaction… or something out of the change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic bargain in Fairfax is we get a bunch of Democrats who are far-left on issues like trans rights and far-right when it comes to school boundaries.

Perfect example is snobby Elaine Tholen, who appointed a trans activist to the FCPS Family Life Committee, but fought to make sure not a single apartment or condo is zoned to Langley High.

The board care deeply about equity as long as the poor kids don't start getting crazy notions about being rezoned to better schools

No one has yet answered the question: who would you zone into Langley to make it 30% FARMS?

Someone already answered your dumb question-its not logistically possible to get to 30%. Maybe 10%.

I am the poster who asked the question. I know you are correct, but there are people on this thread who insist that all schools should be 30%. That is why I asked where they would get the students?

My point is that it is impossible to have the same demographics all across the county.

That’s no excuse for leaving Langley at 3-4% FARMS. That only happens when rich snobs like Elaine Tholen and her predecessors make a concerted effort to keep the school free of low or even middle-income kids.

Otherwise you do not end up with a school where kids get bussed 12 miles to attend the school yet it has no apartments or condos. Meanwhile it borders a series of schools that range from 15% to 50% FARMS.

Then, please tell us how you would make Langley 10% FARMS. Where would you get the students to do that and how would you do it.

There are areas in Reston and Tysons zoned to South Lakes, Marshall, and/or McLean that could be reassigned to Langley and would increase the FARMS % there. And every one of those areas is closer to Langley than the Forestville ES area.

Are these areas closer to Langley than to their current high schools? Would transportation be a problem for them? For their families?

Look at the pocket right on Wiehle zoned to Langley. Those kids could bike to Herndon, but no one seems to have a problem sending them the length of the county to Langley. Why do we only care about bussing when it involves FARMs kids potentially getting zoned to langley?

That would make a split feeder I think? But, this probably goes back to builder getting the zoning in order to sell houses. FCPS or county must have agreed.

Sure, just don't talk about busing like it's something that doesn't already occur.

This shows how little some people understand about the issues with the communities that are struggling. Here are some reasons not to do this:

1. Truancy is already a huge problem--especially among the poor students. Miss the bus? They will not get to school that day.
2. Have an afterschool job? Sure send the kids far away and prevent this.
3. Help out with younger siblings after school? (pretty common among high school kids) Good luck with that.
4. Need to talk to the parents? That's already pretty difficult. Just add a thirty minute commute to the problem.
5. Want the kids to participate in after school activities? Sure there are activity buses--but not convenient.

Whoever thinks that sending kids from Reston or Herndon to Langley need to spend some time with the people they are so "concerned" about. I taught in the projects. I doubt many people on this thread have any idea of the issues these families deal with.

But, the biggest problem will be truancy. And it is already a huge problem with these communities.

Got it, bussing is ok to make sure that rich kids can attend good schools, but not ok if it means poor kids attending good schools. It's probably also not ok to send rich kids to poor school, but your reasons only assume to apply to poor kids

Why is the county making the “poor” schools bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Laughing at the faux concern about the potential hardship on others as an excuse to keep Langley segregated.

Not a Langley parent. Not a Herndon parent.

It is not "faux concern." It is a real issue.

But, it sounds to me like your goal is to get some poor kids out of your school rather than to do what is reasonable.

Why does it bother you so much that Langley has low FARMS?

FWIW, my kids' high school is fairly high FARMS--though not 30%. But, I can see that there is little poverty in the Langley area. That is just a fact.

It's circular because Langley's boundaries are intentionally drawn to exclude any poorer areas, and then you point out there's little poverty in the "Langley area."

Duh.

Now let's see what they could do with their tools if they tried to add some diversity to the school rather than exclude it.

Why did they send Great Falls to Langley in the first place? I'm sure they have been there for at least thirty years. Was there poverty near Langley then that could have been sent there? Was Herndon overcrowded? Was it maybe because they needed more kids at Langley? To avoid split feeders, perhaps?

Again, who are you going to send to Langley? Where are the FARMS kids coming from? Since you seem to be familiar with the issue, please give concrete suggestions.

Pp is just mad.
The Langley boundary was never drawn to exclude poor people.
What happened is that the boundary stayed the same and the area got increasingly wealthy.

More dense areas experienced socioeconomic changes, which those people overwhelmingly voted for and now (some) of them are mad about the logical consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I honestly still think the two best things to address some of the underlying issues are to get rid of AAP centers (have LLIV at every ES/MS) and IB (thereby reducing the number of pupil placements).

If you think that getting rid of IB will fix Lewis, you are not coming from a place of good faith.

Lewis has large out-placements to AP schools. Get rid of IB at Lewis and offer a full menu of AP courses - even if some of those AP classes only have a small number of kids - and the number of pupil placements immediately goes down significantly.

Or make it an ESOL magnet.

Great idea. Give all these really poor kids long, long commutes.

Surely the county would do several ESOL centers if they decided to go this route.

I’d look at a pyramids with the highest density of ESOL students as candidates, not anyway we are just kicking around ideas.
Some thing should be done with declining enrollment schools.

Maybe Mt. Vernon should be an ESOL center instead/also

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they should build some affordable housing apartments right next to Langley HS. That would kill two birds with one stone.

They’d need to run public buses up
Georgetown Pike too, and not just once or twice a day but enough so that people could get to work and shopping.

That would be great for traffic issues.