Karl Frisch and the Stupidity of Dunn Loring ES

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is so stupid. None of these schools are overcrowded. There was supposed to be a boundary study in the Fall of 2020 to figure out how to alleviate overcrowding at Shrevewood (and it probably would have just sent one neighborhood of kids to Stenwood instead), but it was cancelled due to the Covid shutdown and Karl F'ing Frisch took advantage of that to propose the Dunn Loring School (which nobody asked for or wanted). Post-Covid, Shrevewood was no longer under capacity. Then, post AAP changes at the school, it became even LESS crowded. This new school is totally unnecessary. What a huge waste of money. I'm sure that Western Fairfax County would prefer that you build them a new high school.

Honest question: what are the capacity issues that necessitate a western high? Once centreville gets built out none of those schools are overcapacity in the slightest.

DP. I think that historically the main drivers were (1) the belief that high schools shouldn't be bigger than about 2100-2200 kids; and (2) recognition that the Oak Hill/Floris area "deserved" its own high school because that area has been bounced around from so many different schools (Oakton to Westfield and then in some cases Oakton to Westfield to South Lakes).

The first argument kind of went out the window once FCPS routinely started expanding schools to well over 2300 kids. However, it's worth noting that Loudoun still zealously tries to avoid schools that have anywhere near the number of kids as a typical high school in FCPS.

The second argument went out the window once the county transferred the most obvious site for a school focused on the Oak Hill/Floris area to the Saudis, and the biggest overcrowding ended up further south in Chantilly.

So few really expect FCPS to move forward with a new western high school. They are too dishonest to kill it off properly, so they just keep kicking the can down the road and including references to a future new school in each year's CIP.

However, none of that justifies building a new elementary school in Vienna at the Dunn Loring site. Frisch just wanted to make sure that money would not be available to spend at the prior Blake Lane site. Given the disruption that school will create, and how it's going to gut other nearby schools like Stenwood, he'd have been just as well off holding a bonfire and just burning all the money (although the projected cost of Dunn Loring now is more than double the amount originally budgeted for Blake Lane).

Which is good, because Blake Lane was a terrible idea too.

Blake Lane was not a terrible idea. The county is stuffing housing on the AT&T site on Chain BRidge and more where an office building was across from Oakmont Rec Center. Mosaic is likely to remain overcrowded. Providence is rapidly running out of space and the city can push out county kids to house the city kids and there are many new developments in the city. Blake Lane may have not been the best site, but the general area needs more space. Oakton E.S. doesn't have room to add more space.

Mosaic post-renovation is at 90% per the CIP. Everyone always talks about new housing developments, but unless you are talking about the massive changes anticipated for Tysons, there aren't likely to be changes that outweigh the demographic fade that is coming. Blake Lane was a bad idea.

The housing planned on the AT&T site is zoned for Oakton ES, not Mosaic ES.

Even if building at Blake Lane Park was a bad idea, several of the ES in that area are much larger, and far more likely to be overcrowded in the future, than the smaller, less crowded schools in Vienna surrounding the Dunn Loring site.

Frisch ignored all this because he wanted to curry favor with the BLP opponents (largely people with no kids in FCPS, by the way). He misled people by suggesting it would be a win-win to renovate the old Dunn Loring ES property in Vienna, which FCPS has since said would be torn down. You cannot seriously contend there is a greater need for a new 900-school in Vienna than in the Fairfax/Oakton area.

Yes, but look at Oakton's boundary. There should be an easy adjustment there, especially with Sunrise Valley.

It seems pretty clear that the School Board is looking at a quadrant approach to Tysons. Spring Hill, Westbriar, Freedom Hill, Westgate. To get there, Shrevewood's west of 495 segment will go to Stenwood, Stenwood's northern segment will go to Dunn Loring along with some of the southern current Freedom Hill. Heck, some of Pine Spring could go to Stenwood and some of Timber Lane could go to Shrevewood. I don't think this was all needed now, but I can see the vision.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is so stupid. None of these schools are overcrowded. There was supposed to be a boundary study in the Fall of 2020 to figure out how to alleviate overcrowding at Shrevewood (and it probably would have just sent one neighborhood of kids to Stenwood instead), but it was cancelled due to the Covid shutdown and Karl F'ing Frisch took advantage of that to propose the Dunn Loring School (which nobody asked for or wanted). Post-Covid, Shrevewood was no longer under capacity. Then, post AAP changes at the school, it became even LESS crowded. This new school is totally unnecessary. What a huge waste of money. I'm sure that Western Fairfax County would prefer that you build them a new high school.

Honest question: what are the capacity issues that necessitate a western high? Once centreville gets built out none of those schools are overcapacity in the slightest.

DP. I think that historically the main drivers were (1) the belief that high schools shouldn't be bigger than about 2100-2200 kids; and (2) recognition that the Oak Hill/Floris area "deserved" its own high school because that area has been bounced around from so many different schools (Oakton to Westfield and then in some cases Oakton to Westfield to South Lakes).

The first argument kind of went out the window once FCPS routinely started expanding schools to well over 2300 kids. However, it's worth noting that Loudoun still zealously tries to avoid schools that have anywhere near the number of kids as a typical high school in FCPS.

The second argument went out the window once the county transferred the most obvious site for a school focused on the Oak Hill/Floris area to the Saudis, and the biggest overcrowding ended up further south in Chantilly.

So few really expect FCPS to move forward with a new western high school. They are too dishonest to kill it off properly, so they just keep kicking the can down the road and including references to a future new school in each year's CIP.

However, none of that justifies building a new elementary school in Vienna at the Dunn Loring site. Frisch just wanted to make sure that money would not be available to spend at the prior Blake Lane site. Given the disruption that school will create, and how it's going to gut other nearby schools like Stenwood, he'd have been just as well off holding a bonfire and just burning all the money (although the projected cost of Dunn Loring now is more than double the amount originally budgeted for Blake Lane).

Which is good, because Blake Lane was a terrible idea too.

Blake Lane was not a terrible idea. The county is stuffing housing on the AT&T site on Chain BRidge and more where an office building was across from Oakmont Rec Center. Mosaic is likely to remain overcrowded. Providence is rapidly running out of space and the city can push out county kids to house the city kids and there are many new developments in the city. Blake Lane may have not been the best site, but the general area needs more space. Oakton E.S. doesn't have room to add more space.

Mosaic post-renovation is at 90% per the CIP. Everyone always talks about new housing developments, but unless you are talking about the massive changes anticipated for Tysons, there aren't likely to be changes that outweigh the demographic fade that is coming. Blake Lane was a bad idea.

The housing planned on the AT&T site is zoned for Oakton ES, not Mosaic ES.

Even if building at Blake Lane Park was a bad idea, several of the ES in that area are much larger, and far more likely to be overcrowded in the future, than the smaller, less crowded schools in Vienna surrounding the Dunn Loring site.

Frisch ignored all this because he wanted to curry favor with the BLP opponents (largely people with no kids in FCPS, by the way). He misled people by suggesting it would be a win-win to renovate the old Dunn Loring ES property in Vienna, which FCPS has since said would be torn down. You cannot seriously contend there is a greater need for a new 900-school in Vienna than in the Fairfax/Oakton area.

Yes, but look at Oakton's boundary. There should be an easy adjustment there, especially with Sunrise Valley.

It seems pretty clear that the School Board is looking at a quadrant approach to Tysons. Spring Hill, Westbriar, Freedom Hill, Westgate. To get there, Shrevewood's west of 495 segment will go to Stenwood, Stenwood's northern segment will go to Dunn Loring along with some of the southern current Freedom Hill. Heck, some of Pine Spring could go to Stenwood and some of Timber Lane could go to Shrevewood. I don't think this was all needed now, but I can see the vision.

This makes no sense. They didn’t even include Spring Hill among the 10 schools potentially affected.

There is no vision, only incompetence and uncertainty, on display here.

To the extent there was any basis for action here, it was overcrowding at Shrevewood years ago that has largely resolved itself and in any event could have been addressed with changes only affecting three schools, not 10. Now we will waste money, move around far more kids than need to be moved, create uncertainty, and gut at least one school (Stenwood). To the extent anything is done relating to Tysons growth, it will address it in an indirect and inefficient manner that does not align with the county’s published plans for Tysons.

Frisch is an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so stupid. None of these schools are overcrowded. There was supposed to be a boundary study in the Fall of 2020 to figure out how to alleviate overcrowding at Shrevewood (and it probably would have just sent one neighborhood of kids to Stenwood instead), but it was cancelled due to the Covid shutdown and Karl F'ing Frisch took advantage of that to propose the Dunn Loring School (which nobody asked for or wanted). Post-Covid, Shrevewood was no longer under capacity. Then, post AAP changes at the school, it became even LESS crowded. This new school is totally unnecessary. What a huge waste of money. I'm sure that Western Fairfax County would prefer that you build them a new high school.

Honest question: what are the capacity issues that necessitate a western high? Once centreville gets built out none of those schools are overcapacity in the slightest.

DP. I think that historically the main drivers were (1) the belief that high schools shouldn't be bigger than about 2100-2200 kids; and (2) recognition that the Oak Hill/Floris area "deserved" its own high school because that area has been bounced around from so many different schools (Oakton to Westfield and then in some cases Oakton to Westfield to South Lakes).

The first argument kind of went out the window once FCPS routinely started expanding schools to well over 2300 kids. However, it's worth noting that Loudoun still zealously tries to avoid schools that have anywhere near the number of kids as a typical high school in FCPS.

The second argument went out the window once the county transferred the most obvious site for a school focused on the Oak Hill/Floris area to the Saudis, and the biggest overcrowding ended up further south in Chantilly.

So few really expect FCPS to move forward with a new western high school. They are too dishonest to kill it off properly, so they just keep kicking the can down the road and including references to a future new school in each year's CIP.

However, none of that justifies building a new elementary school in Vienna at the Dunn Loring site. Frisch just wanted to make sure that money would not be available to spend at the prior Blake Lane site. Given the disruption that school will create, and how it's going to gut other nearby schools like Stenwood, he'd have been just as well off holding a bonfire and just burning all the money (although the projected cost of Dunn Loring now is more than double the amount originally budgeted for Blake Lane).

Which is good, because Blake Lane was a terrible idea too.

Blake Lane was not a terrible idea. The county is stuffing housing on the AT&T site on Chain BRidge and more where an office building was across from Oakmont Rec Center. Mosaic is likely to remain overcrowded. Providence is rapidly running out of space and the city can push out county kids to house the city kids and there are many new developments in the city. Blake Lane may have not been the best site, but the general area needs more space. Oakton E.S. doesn't have room to add more space.

Mosaic post-renovation is at 90% per the CIP. Everyone always talks about new housing developments, but unless you are talking about the massive changes anticipated for Tysons, there aren't likely to be changes that outweigh the demographic fade that is coming. Blake Lane was a bad idea.

The housing planned on the AT&T site is zoned for Oakton ES, not Mosaic ES.

Even if building at Blake Lane Park was a bad idea, several of the ES in that area are much larger, and far more likely to be overcrowded in the future, than the smaller, less crowded schools in Vienna surrounding the Dunn Loring site.

Frisch ignored all this because he wanted to curry favor with the BLP opponents (largely people with no kids in FCPS, by the way). He misled people by suggesting it would be a win-win to renovate the old Dunn Loring ES property in Vienna, which FCPS has since said would be torn down. You cannot seriously contend there is a greater need for a new 900-school in Vienna than in the Fairfax/Oakton area.

Yes, but look at Oakton's boundary. There should be an easy adjustment there, especially with Sunrise Valley.

It seems pretty clear that the School Board is looking at a quadrant approach to Tysons. Spring Hill, Westbriar, Freedom Hill, Westgate. To get there, Shrevewood's west of 495 segment will go to Stenwood, Stenwood's northern segment will go to Dunn Loring along with some of the southern current Freedom Hill. Heck, some of Pine Spring could go to Stenwood and some of Timber Lane could go to Shrevewood. I don't think this was all needed now, but I can see the vision.

Oakton ES is a split feeder to Oakton and Madison. There’s nothing “easy” about telling people they need to move into a South Lakes feeder (Sunrise Valley).

[Anonymous]

FCPS is advertising a community meeting about the Dunn Loring ES project on December 4th.

According to the FCPS communication, "[t]he repurposing of the Dunn Loring Administrative Center will create a new elementary school that will accommodate approximately 900 students. This project will not only provide a high-quality education for our children but will also alleviate overcrowding in 10 other Fairfax County public schools."

This is a LIE. There are not 10 other FCPS schools near Dunn Loring that are overcrowded. There are a couple many miles away that might be overcrowded years from now, and that overcrowding could be addressed through boundary changes with other schools.

Why do these people think it is OK to lie to families and taxpayers? They have just been caught covering up the misconduct at Hayfield, and their response is to keep lying to people about Dunn Loring?

[Anonymous]

Someone noted on a deleted thread (duplicative) that it wouldn't be a surprise if FCPS starts manipulating the numbers in the next CIP to magically generate more "overcrowded" ES.

There's really no reason to trust these people to do their jobs objectively. They aim to please their bosses, and they don't even realize they are lying when they just say crap they think the SB members like Frisch want to hear.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Frisch snookered people into thinking they were going to renovate the old Dunn Loring building. Instead, they plan to tear it down. So much for his alleged commitment to environmentalism and retrofitting existing buildings. He's an ass.

Why do people still keep voting for this d*ck? He's done nothing good for the school system, definitely nothing good for his district. Everyone I know hates him. I hope there is a better progressive candidate when he's up again (is that this year???)

His purpose on the school board os to fundraise from out of state donors, mostly from California, to support far left wing causes and candidates.

He has zero interest in actual school issues, except those that appeal to out of state donors.

They vote for him because no reasonable opponent ran.

Doesn’t make Dunn Loring ES any better an idea. Karl Frisch is a creep who has no kids, appears to spend most of his free time with drag queens, and wastes taxpayer money.

Of course it doesn’t but the question was why did people vote for him again. The answer is because there was no reasonable alternative.

And criticizing him for having no kids and being part of the LGBTQ community is the problem. Opponents who focus on those things will lose because most people don’t have a problem with those things.

But it’s a more than full time job that pays less than $50,000 a year and subjects you to lots of vitriol and hate so not many people will be interested in running.

People voted for him because most of Fairfax County votes "blue no matter who" and doesn't research local issues or give a fig about who they are electing, their lack of qualifications and what they do once elected.

They did the research and KF was by far the best option.

What kind of unhinged lunatic raffles off a semi-automatic rifle to raise money for his campaign for school board? WTF?

Yeah, that’s crazy, but so too are the number of times Frisch has been photographed hanging around with drag queens. It tells you what his priorities are, and they have little to do with education.

It’s a shame there aren’t better people running but it’s Frisch who is making the terrible decisions now, so he’s the one who needs to be called out and held accountable. His defeated opponents aren’t the ones wasting tens of millions in taxpayer money on an unnecessary new school.

WTF is wrong with drag queens?

Speaking of misplaced priorities.

LOL. This is Frisch's base in a nutshell. Promoting drag queens in schools and every other venue, while ignoring education.

No one is "promoting drag quesions in schools".

Again, WTF is wrong with drag queens? Try not to sound like a homophobic bigot...

We wanted someone with some common sense and we got RuPaul 2.0 instead. Sigh.

WTF is wrong with RuPaul? He has more common sense that the RWNJs trolling DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frisch snookered people into thinking they were going to renovate the old Dunn Loring building. Instead, they plan to tear it down. So much for his alleged commitment to environmentalism and retrofitting existing buildings. He's an ass.

Why do people still keep voting for this d*ck? He's done nothing good for the school system, definitely nothing good for his district. Everyone I know hates him. I hope there is a better progressive candidate when he's up again (is that this year???)

His purpose on the school board os to fundraise from out of state donors, mostly from California, to support far left wing causes and candidates.

He has zero interest in actual school issues, except those that appeal to out of state donors.

They vote for him because no reasonable opponent ran.

Doesn’t make Dunn Loring ES any better an idea. Karl Frisch is a creep who has no kids, appears to spend most of his free time with drag queens, and wastes taxpayer money.

Of course it doesn’t but the question was why did people vote for him again. The answer is because there was no reasonable alternative.

And criticizing him for having no kids and being part of the LGBTQ community is the problem. Opponents who focus on those things will lose because most people don’t have a problem with those things.

But it’s a more than full time job that pays less than $50,000 a year and subjects you to lots of vitriol and hate so not many people will be interested in running.

People voted for him because most of Fairfax County votes "blue no matter who" and doesn't research local issues or give a fig about who they are electing, their lack of qualifications and what they do once elected.

They did the research and KF was by far the best option.

What kind of unhinged lunatic raffles off a semi-automatic rifle to raise money for his campaign for school board? WTF?

Yeah, that’s crazy, but so too are the number of times Frisch has been photographed hanging around with drag queens. It tells you what his priorities are, and they have little to do with education.

It’s a shame there aren’t better people running but it’s Frisch who is making the terrible decisions now, so he’s the one who needs to be called out and held accountable. His defeated opponents aren’t the ones wasting tens of millions in taxpayer money on an unnecessary new school.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up drag queens. They have nothing to do with his campaign or anything he does on the school board. Get a grip and stick to the point.

Weren't you the one who brought up the idiosyncrasies of Frisch's last opponent, which didn't relate to the decisions he might have made on the School Board if elected.

Karl is a bit unusual as well, but you treat his penchant for spending an inordinate of time at Pride parades and hanging out with drag queens as virtues, while ignoring his bad policy decisions. He is among the current SB members driving FCPS into the ground. Every year performance declines and longstanding issues go unaddressed.

Raffling off a semi-automatic weapon to raise money for your SCHOOL BOARD campaign demonstrates extremely poor judgment, at best.

[Anonymous]

Karl’s “allies” have shown up. How sweet.

[Anonymous]

Karl is the WORST!

His term on the FCPS cannot end soon enough. He has done so much damage to the entire FCPS system.

[Anonymous]

Shrevewood enrollment peaked at 773 six years ago. They are at 569 now. That was the school where overcrowding was prompting the requests for a solution in that area.

The situation has taken care of itself. There is no need for Dunn Loring ES at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shrevewood enrollment peaked at 773 six years ago. They are at 569 now. That was the school where overcrowding was prompting the requests for a solution in that area.

The situation has taken care of itself. There is no need for Dunn Loring ES at all.

Shrevewood capacity is kind of a mirage. It did naturally settle off its peak, but now it’s way under enrolled and shifting capacity issues to Lemon Road. Nearly twice as many students transferred to Lemon Road for the AAP center this year and Shrevewood’s local level 4 enrollment has gone from around 70 to below 20 in the last two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shrevewood enrollment peaked at 773 six years ago. They are at 569 now. That was the school where overcrowding was prompting the requests for a solution in that area.

The situation has taken care of itself. There is no need for Dunn Loring ES at all.

Shrevewood capacity is kind of a mirage. It did naturally settle off its peak, but now it’s way under enrolled and shifting capacity issues to Lemon Road. Nearly twice as many students transferred to Lemon Road for the AAP center this year and Shrevewood’s local level 4 enrollment has gone from around 70 to below 20 in the last two years.

So Lemon Road is still well below its design capacity and 14 kids above is current program capacity. We don’t need a new 900-student school in Vienna for that. If anything we should be asking why LLIV at Shrevewood is so anemic.

[Anonymous]

The kids crossing Route 7 to get to Lemon Road can go to Shrevewood, and the boundaries of Stenwood and Freedom Hill can also be adjusted. There was a lot of talk at the boundary meetings about drawing boundaries that take major roads like Routes 7 and 50 into account. No need for a new school at Gallows/Idylwood.

[Anonymous]

The Dunn Loring School was just approved and is now good to go. The architects will remove and preserve the historic entryway pediment and portal, to be showcased in an interpretative exhibit enshrined within a two story atrium in the new school.

https://www.ffxnow.com/2025/01/16/planning-commission-backs-new-dunn-loring-elementary-school/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Dunn Loring School was just approved and is now good to go. The architects will remove and preserve the historic entryway pediment and portal, to be showcased in an interpretative exhibit enshrined within a two story atrium in the new school.

https://www.ffxnow.com/2025/01/16/planning-commission-backs-new-dunn-loring-elementary-school/

This is pretty crazy because half the School Board members (Lady, McDaniel, Dunne, Moon, R. Anderson, and Dixit) raised concerns at a work session on the Capital Improvement Program this week as to whether this school is even needed (Frisch wasn't at the work session). It's surrounded entirely by elementary schools that FCPS is projecting will be under capacity five years from now.

You can tell that the folks trying to sell this school are engaging in some creative double-speak: "Commissioners suggested the efforts by FCPS were adequate, and acknowledged a real need to create additional student capacity in the county’s Dunn Loring/Vienna/Falls Church areas." "Dunn Loring/Vienna/Falls Church" is a bunch of different areas, and the actual growth is miles away in Tysons.

If this school gets a green light, and they end up with a capacity glut due to building a school for which there is no need, the Board of Supervisors needs to start limiting the transfer to FCPS and taxpayers should start voting down bond referenda.