Karl Frisch and the Stupidity of Dunn Loring ES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Karl Frisch+the pandemic really screwed Shrevewood over. Three years ago, we were promised a boundary study the following fall, which was then postponed to the next fall, and then of course the pandemic happened so that was postponed again, and somehow Karl managed to slide in the Dunn Loring proposal under the radar.

How are things at Shrevewood? Did the pandemic help with the capacity issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where are the projections that Shrevewood will be at 92% capacity in 2026? That's insane given how overcrowded it was pre-pandemic. TONS of high income families left for private over the past two years and a lot of the AAP kids left for Lemon Road. That doesn't help those of us with kids who are in regular, non-AAP classes, though. They are still overcrowded, even after principal placement.

Shrevewood was at 118% of capacity in 2018, with 773 kids.

With Covid, the enrollment declined to 674 by the fall of 2021. So it was basically down 100 kids in two years.

FCPS now projects the school will be at 92% capacity (625 kids) by the fall of 2026.

This information can be found at p. 144 and elsewhere in the draft FY 2023-2027 Capital Improvement Program, available at: https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/C9QSVU748BE9/$file/Proposed%20CIP%20FY%202023-27%20(1).pdf

[Anonymous]

Hard to believe any of these comments are anything other than astroturfing. Repurposing Dunn Loring makes much more sense than building a brand new school outright. Why anyone thinks any of this has to do with a DOG PARK only makes sense when you understand that 90% of the criticism about Frisch is very thinly veiled anti-gay stuff. That he cares more about phis than children. That he has no children in the schools.

Look, I’d having a vested interest in the schools and expertise in public education was a requirement for being elected to the school board, we’d be electing experienced FCPS teachers who are also FCPS parents. But that is explicitly Not allowed. So let’s let go of the criticism that Frisch has no children. He is a member of our community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe any of these comments are anything other than astroturfing. Repurposing Dunn Loring makes much more sense than building a brand new school outright. Why anyone thinks any of this has to do with a DOG PARK only makes sense when you understand that 90% of the criticism about Frisch is very thinly veiled anti-gay stuff. That he cares more about phis than children. That he has no children in the schools.

Look, I’d having a vested interest in the schools and expertise in public education was a requirement for being elected to the school board, we’d be electing experienced FCPS teachers who are also FCPS parents. But that is explicitly Not allowed. So let’s let go of the criticism that Frisch has no children. He is a member of our community.

The Blake Ln site is a 1/2 mile from Mosaic Elementary, which is getting a major overhaul. It was a stupid idea to put a school at Blake Ln. in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Karl Frisch+the pandemic really screwed Shrevewood over. Three years ago, we were promised a boundary study the following fall, which was then postponed to the next fall, and then of course the pandemic happened so that was postponed again, and somehow Karl managed to slide in the Dunn Loring proposal under the radar.

How are things at Shrevewood? Did the pandemic help with the capacity issues?

Yes, in a massive way. My kid's 2nd grade class is 18. The question is whether 2021 is an anomaly and some of those kids that went private will come back. We know parents that went private because they needed to be 100% certain that school would be open all year long. If FCPS can show that they will be open, that might entice them back. So, making any capital plans based on pandemic attendance is problematic.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know where this is:

“TYSONS” ES
Region 2
Site with Athletic Fields
Acreage 7.93
Land Owned by Fairfax County Board of Supervisors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe any of these comments are anything other than astroturfing. Repurposing Dunn Loring makes much more sense than building a brand new school outright. Why anyone thinks any of this has to do with a DOG PARK only makes sense when you understand that 90% of the criticism about Frisch is very thinly veiled anti-gay stuff. That he cares more about phis than children. That he has no children in the schools.

Look, I’d having a vested interest in the schools and expertise in public education was a requirement for being elected to the school board, we’d be electing experienced FCPS teachers who are also FCPS parents. But that is explicitly Not allowed. So let’s let go of the criticism that Frisch has no children. He is a member of our community.

Hard to believe this post is anything other than the typical defensiveness that leads FCDC loyalists to defend anything the School Board does, no matter how ill-advised or bone headed, simply because the current Board is all Democratic.

Frisch crowed about how his scheme would save Blake Lane Park when it was announced. And one of the key arguments made by those who wanted that site not to be used for a school was that it was a much-needed dog park.

It is incontrovertible that returning Dunn Loring to use as a school delays any relief at Shrevewood by five years and that FCPS projections do not suggest that any of the schools closest to Dunn Loring will be overcrowded within the next five years. To the contrary, FCPS projects that several will be roughly 20-40% under-capacity five years from now.

If there is no longer a need for a new ES in the Fairfax/Oakton area, then no school should be built there. Or, if a school is needed in that area, but the Blake Lane site is inappropriate, then a better site should be identified in that area. But accelerating the Dunn Loring site was pure stupidity, best explained by Frisch’s desire to curry favor with his friends by assuring that the money once set aside for Blake Lane was being spent elsewhere. It will end up being an obstacle to sensible planning in the Tysons area, and FCPS will still have to find an alternate site for the administrative programs being relocated from Dunn Loring.

It’s a shame that Frisch has supporters who want to cost him with Teflon due to his sexuality, when the real problem is that Frisch’s lack of any relevant expertise keeps redounding to the detriment of county parents and taxpayers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe any of these comments are anything other than astroturfing. Repurposing Dunn Loring makes much more sense than building a brand new school outright. Why anyone thinks any of this has to do with a DOG PARK only makes sense when you understand that 90% of the criticism about Frisch is very thinly veiled anti-gay stuff. That he cares more about phis than children. That he has no children in the schools.

Look, I’d having a vested interest in the schools and expertise in public education was a requirement for being elected to the school board, we’d be electing experienced FCPS teachers who are also FCPS parents. But that is explicitly Not allowed. So let’s let go of the criticism that Frisch has no children. He is a member of our community.

The Blake Ln site is a 1/2 mile from Mosaic Elementary, which is getting a major overhaul. It was a stupid idea to put a school at Blake Ln. in the first place.

The Dunn Loring site is about 3/4 of a mile from Stenwood Elementary. Not a big difference.

Mosaic needs an overhaul but that doesn’t mean families necessarily want more kids attending one of the county’s largest elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe any of these comments are anything other than astroturfing. Repurposing Dunn Loring makes much more sense than building a brand new school outright. Why anyone thinks any of this has to do with a DOG PARK only makes sense when you understand that 90% of the criticism about Frisch is very thinly veiled anti-gay stuff. That he cares more about phis than children. That he has no children in the schools.

Look, I’d having a vested interest in the schools and expertise in public education was a requirement for being elected to the school board, we’d be electing experienced FCPS teachers who are also FCPS parents. But that is explicitly Not allowed. So let’s let go of the criticism that Frisch has no children. He is a member of our community.

Hard to believe this post is anything other than the typical defensiveness that leads FCDC loyalists to defend anything the School Board does, no matter how ill-advised or bone headed, simply because the current Board is all Democratic.

Frisch crowed about how his scheme would save Blake Lane Park when it was announced. And one of the key arguments made by those who wanted that site not to be used for a school was that it was a much-needed dog park.

It is incontrovertible that returning Dunn Loring to use as a school delays any relief at Shrevewood by five years and that FCPS projections do not suggest that any of the schools closest to Dunn Loring will be overcrowded within the next five years. To the contrary, FCPS projects that several will be roughly 20-40% under-capacity five years from now.

If there is no longer a need for a new ES in the Fairfax/Oakton area, then no school should be built there. Or, if a school is needed in that area, but the Blake Lane site is inappropriate, then a better site should be identified in that area. But accelerating the Dunn Loring site was pure stupidity, best explained by Frisch’s desire to curry favor with his friends by assuring that the money once set aside for Blake Lane was being spent elsewhere. It will end up being an obstacle to sensible planning in the Tysons area, and FCPS will still have to find an alternate site for the administrative programs being relocated from Dunn Loring.

It’s a shame that Frisch has supporters who want to cost him with Teflon due to his sexuality, when the real problem is that Frisch’s lack of any relevant expertise keeps redounding to the detriment of county parents and taxpayers.

You are confusing two different things. Blake Ln. never made sense as a site with the renovation/expansion to Mosaic in the cards. Dunn Loring did make sense because the schools on the south side of Tysons were projected to be overcrowded. Yes, they probably should have done a temporary shift from Shrevewood to Stenwood and Stenwood to other, but a new school actually provides some real capacity help. The pandemic has upended that. The question now is whether it makes sense to continue with the Dunn Loring site. I doubt that they are going to change plans based on the 2021 attendance, but if attendance does indeed continue to trend down, maybe they need to reconsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know where this is:

“TYSONS” ES
Region 2
Site with Athletic Fields
Acreage 7.93
Land Owned by Fairfax County Board of Supervisors

Jones Branch and Westbranch in Tysons.

That’s slightly larger than the Forestville ES site in Great Falls and Louise Archer ES in Vienna and about the same as Cameron ES in Alexandria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard to believe any of these comments are anything other than astroturfing. Repurposing Dunn Loring makes much more sense than building a brand new school outright. Why anyone thinks any of this has to do with a DOG PARK only makes sense when you understand that 90% of the criticism about Frisch is very thinly veiled anti-gay stuff. That he cares more about phis than children. That he has no children in the schools.

Look, I’d having a vested interest in the schools and expertise in public education was a requirement for being elected to the school board, we’d be electing experienced FCPS teachers who are also FCPS parents. But that is explicitly Not allowed. So let’s let go of the criticism that Frisch has no children. He is a member of our community.

Hard to believe this post is anything other than the typical defensiveness that leads FCDC loyalists to defend anything the School Board does, no matter how ill-advised or bone headed, simply because the current Board is all Democratic.

Frisch crowed about how his scheme would save Blake Lane Park when it was announced. And one of the key arguments made by those who wanted that site not to be used for a school was that it was a much-needed dog park.

It is incontrovertible that returning Dunn Loring to use as a school delays any relief at Shrevewood by five years and that FCPS projections do not suggest that any of the schools closest to Dunn Loring will be overcrowded within the next five years. To the contrary, FCPS projects that several will be roughly 20-40% under-capacity five years from now.

If there is no longer a need for a new ES in the Fairfax/Oakton area, then no school should be built there. Or, if a school is needed in that area, but the Blake Lane site is inappropriate, then a better site should be identified in that area. But accelerating the Dunn Loring site was pure stupidity, best explained by Frisch’s desire to curry favor with his friends by assuring that the money once set aside for Blake Lane was being spent elsewhere. It will end up being an obstacle to sensible planning in the Tysons area, and FCPS will still have to find an alternate site for the administrative programs being relocated from Dunn Loring.

It’s a shame that Frisch has supporters who want to cost him with Teflon due to his sexuality, when the real problem is that Frisch’s lack of any relevant expertise keeps redounding to the detriment of county parents and taxpayers.

You are confusing two different things. Blake Ln. never made sense as a site with the renovation/expansion to Mosaic in the cards. Dunn Loring did make sense because the schools on the south side of Tysons were projected to be overcrowded. Yes, they probably should have done a temporary shift from Shrevewood to Stenwood and Stenwood to other, but a new school actually provides some real capacity help. The pandemic has upended that. The question now is whether it makes sense to continue with the Dunn Loring site. I doubt that they are going to change plans based on the 2021 attendance, but if attendance does indeed continue to trend down, maybe they need to reconsider.

Nope. You are simply wrong.

The Dunn Loring and Pimmit Hills sites were being held in reserve for potential return to use as elementary schools if the need arose, with no dates set for their rehab.

When Frisch decided to accelerate the Dunn Loring renovation, it was clear there was surplus capacity among the schools on the southern and western sides of Tysons. The only exception was Shrevewood, and the overcrowding there could have been addressed simply by moving part of Shrevewood to Stenwood and part of Stenwood to Freedom Hill.

Now FCPS will end up with a glut of space where it won’t be needed. That will require more boundaries to be changed in 2026, and it will complicate efforts as the growth that is actually taking place in Tysons impacts Westbriar, Spring Hill, and Westgate, none of which are especially close to Dunn Loring.

It’s a giant screw-up that will only become clearer over time.

[Anonymous]

The community that was to be zoned to the Blake lane site never got behind it. Our kids are at Oakton ES, it is large, but I don’t know of anyone complaining.

Most neighbors didn’t want the school building and the extra traffic it would bring. It was never about the dog park it was about saving the open space. Plopping a 4 story building in a small neighborhood pocket park in the middle of a densely populated multi family/townhouse community was a hard sell.

Green space is in short supply. Cars, buildings, traffic, major roads not so much.

Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

Very few people want to live adjacent to a school any school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The community that was to be zoned to the Blake lane site never got behind it. Our kids are at Oakton ES, it is large, but I don’t know of anyone complaining.

Most neighbors didn’t want the school building and the extra traffic it would bring. It was never about the dog park it was about saving the open space. Plopping a 4 story building in a small neighborhood pocket park in the middle of a densely populated multi family/townhouse community was a hard sell.

Green space is in short supply. Cars, buildings, traffic, major roads not so much.

Lipstick on a pig is still a pig.

Very few people want to live adjacent to a school any school.

At best, that makes the case that the school shouldn’t have been built at BLP. It doesn’t make the case for spending the money elsewhere inefficiently.

The Dunn Loring school is going to be an albatross, eventually requiring far more boundary changes than necessary in another part of the county. You didn’t want to get moved out of Oakton; others will end up unnecessarily moved later.

The money, if available for other uses, could have been spent more wisely. Elementary school enrollments are projected in decline now, whereas middle school enrollments are projected to decline less and high school enrollments are expected to increase.

Karl thought he was being clever but he really is just creating more problems down the road (although if he’s voted out they’ll end up someone else’s problem to inherit).

[Anonymous]

Doubt it’s going to sync up well with the whole “you can live, work, and play in Tysons” marketing pitch if they end up telling people with kids moving into some of the hundreds of new Tysons condos that their kids can schlep to some school in Dunn Loring, which is between Vienna and Merrifield.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doubt it’s going to sync up well with the whole “you can live, work, and play in Tysons” marketing pitch if they end up telling people with kids moving into some of the hundreds of new Tysons condos that their kids can schlep to some school in Dunn Loring, which is between Vienna and Merrifield.

It really isn’t that far. What is it a mile or 2. We bus kids halfway across the county from Herndon to Great Falls/Langley. And yes I do believe families will eventually be drawn to the condos in Tysons. It is how much of the world lives. Small spaces that is.