Weaning your kid off a reward system

[Anonymous]

So I finally got a copy of Kazdin since people here seem to think it's a miracle worker and I really fail to see the difference between what he's suggesting and what we've done in the past. Reading thorough it I can't believe that it's another book suggesting a rewards chart. I am so sick of these and don't think they work, especially when it's a variety of behaviors you need to address. We used a reward system to get a desired behavior. We got the behavior we wanted but now every time kid does the behavior he thinks he should get a prize and has tantrums when he doesn't get the prize. When is the reward system ever supposed to end if kid sees no intrinsic value in the behavior? It's just paying him to be good.

[Anonymous]

I feel you. My kid completely flips out when she DOESN'T get the reward for not doing what she's supposed to, and it honestly turns into taking something away vs. rewarding every time.

[Anonymous]

P. 185: "It is true that if you begin a program and get a child to do this or that behavior, but for only a brief period (a few days, or a week), and then end the program right there, the behavior will probably revert to the original levels…" He goes on to say that if you stick with it "a few weeks, up to a month or two -- and there is sufficient opportunity during this period for reinforced practice, good behaviors often are maintained after the program ends."

P. 188 he starts talking about fading the program.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

[Anonymous]

I started making the reward a nickel with my 3 year old twins. They got 4-7 nickels a day for years. I would also take them away. I think making the reward something easy, cheap and sustainable is key yet still desirable...which can be hard. With my next kid I made it a penny lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

I see this argument all the time and I think it's a dangerous comparison. PP, do you ever do anything simply because it's the right thing to do? If so, this is the ultimate goal I think we need to be teaching children. Some material rewards for going above and beyond are fine: "You get straight A's, you can get (such and such)." However, I think kids should be given rewards such as going to a movie with a friend or family, getting a toy that is interactive,or going out to dinner with friends or family. This way, children, who don't appreciate friendships or the value of socialization much, get ample opportunities to do so while still getting a reward such as a movie, dinner, or toy. Many of our kids need less focus on extrinsic rewards and more focus on intrinsic rewards. Just an opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

I see this argument all the time and I think it's a dangerous comparison. PP, do you ever do anything simply because it's the right thing to do? If so, this is the ultimate goal I think we need to be teaching children. Some material rewards for going above and beyond are fine: "You get straight A's, you can get (such and such)." However, I think kids should be given rewards such as going to a movie with a friend or family, getting a toy that is interactive,or going out to dinner with friends or family. This way, children, who don't appreciate friendships or the value of socialization much, get ample opportunities to do so while still getting a reward such as a movie, dinner, or toy. Many of our kids need less focus on extrinsic rewards and more focus on intrinsic rewards. Just an opinion.

That is fine and dandy if it works for you, it is perfect world talk and I don't live in a perfect world. With many behaviorally challenged children, it just doesn't work that way and the reward system does. Of course the longterm goal is for the behavior to happen without incentive, but it may take much longer than the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

I see this argument all the time and I think it's a dangerous comparison. PP, do you ever do anything simply because it's the right thing to do? If so, this is the ultimate goal I think we need to be teaching children. Some material rewards for going above and beyond are fine: "You get straight A's, you can get (such and such)." However, I think kids should be given rewards such as going to a movie with a friend or family, getting a toy that is interactive,or going out to dinner with friends or family. This way, children, who don't appreciate friendships or the value of socialization much, get ample opportunities to do so while still getting a reward such as a movie, dinner, or toy. Many of our kids need less focus on extrinsic rewards and more focus on intrinsic rewards. Just an opinion.

Honestly, if DS did things bc "it's the right thing to do", he would not NEED a behavioral plan in the first place. Expecting kids with developmental delays and behavior issues to understand that they should be motivated by intrinsic rewards is not age appropriate and frankly ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

We used a token system, so my son has to earn tokens. He will also lose tokens for inappropriate behavior. He will get a reward when he gets all his tokens that day. Then we move to all his tokens for 2 days or 3 days etc. I do not do immediate reward other than the token which velcros on to his chart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if DS did things bc "it's the right thing to do", he would not NEED a behavioral plan in the first place. Expecting kids with developmental delays and behavior issues to understand that they should be motivated by intrinsic rewards is not age appropriate and frankly ridiculous.

I agree. I'd never pay my kids for good grades, because they're intrinsically motivated to do well in school. I hate reading logs and summer reading programs because my kids are born readers, and keeping track of their reading gets in the way of that. But I have definitely seen the benefits of the Kazdin-style rewards chart for the issues we're dealing with where my kids need another level of motivation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

I see this argument all the time and I think it's a dangerous comparison. PP, do you ever do anything simply because it's the right thing to do? If so, this is the ultimate goal I think we need to be teaching children. Some material rewards for going above and beyond are fine: "You get straight A's, you can get (such and such)." However, I think kids should be given rewards such as going to a movie with a friend or family, getting a toy that is interactive,or going out to dinner with friends or family. This way, children, who don't appreciate friendships or the value of socialization much, get ample opportunities to do so while still getting a reward such as a movie, dinner, or toy. Many of our kids need less focus on extrinsic rewards and more focus on intrinsic rewards. Just an opinion.

That is fine and dandy if it works for you, it is perfect world talk and I don't live in a perfect world. With many behaviorally challenged children, it just doesn't work that way and the reward system does. Of course the longterm goal is for the behavior to happen without incentive, but it may take much longer than the norm.

Yes, and I live in a perfect world and that's why I'm writing on the special needs forum. I have found that by giving extrinsic rewards, it delays learning to value intrinsic rewards. Many of our children need to focus much, much more on intrinsic reward. However, because they do not value it much right now, it helps to combine the extrinsic (movie) with intrinsic (family going out and being together).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

I see this argument all the time and I think it's a dangerous comparison. PP, do you ever do anything simply because it's the right thing to do? If so, this is the ultimate goal I think we need to be teaching children. Some material rewards for going above and beyond are fine: "You get straight A's, you can get (such and such)." However, I think kids should be given rewards such as going to a movie with a friend or family, getting a toy that is interactive,or going out to dinner with friends or family. This way, children, who don't appreciate friendships or the value of socialization much, get ample opportunities to do so while still getting a reward such as a movie, dinner, or toy. Many of our kids need less focus on extrinsic rewards and more focus on intrinsic rewards. Just an opinion.

Honestly, if DS did things bc "it's the right thing to do", he would not NEED a behavioral plan in the first place. Expecting kids with developmental delays and behavior issues to understand that they should be motivated by intrinsic rewards is not age appropriate and frankly ridiculous.

Yes it is ridiculous and thats why you combine the extrinsic reward (movie) with the intrinsic reward (family togetherness or outing with friends). They learn to have fun with friends or family all the while appreciating the extrinsic reward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't go to my job and work hard if I did not get paid.

Lower the reward to something you can live with indefinitely. It make take a very long time, it may never happen. It depends on the child. If you get the improved behavior, then it is worth in IMO and IME.

I see this argument all the time and I think it's a dangerous comparison. PP, do you ever do anything simply because it's the right thing to do? If so, this is the ultimate goal I think we need to be teaching children. Some material rewards for going above and beyond are fine: "You get straight A's, you can get (such and such)." However, I think kids should be given rewards such as going to a movie with a friend or family, getting a toy that is interactive,or going out to dinner with friends or family. This way, children, who don't appreciate friendships or the value of socialization much, get ample opportunities to do so while still getting a reward such as a movie, dinner, or toy. Many of our kids need less focus on extrinsic rewards and more focus on intrinsic rewards. Just an opinion.

That is fine and dandy if it works for you, it is perfect world talk and I don't live in a perfect world. With many behaviorally challenged children, it just doesn't work that way and the reward system does. Of course the longterm goal is for the behavior to happen without incentive, but it may take much longer than the norm.

Yes, and I live in a perfect world and that's why I'm writing on the special needs forum. I have found that by giving extrinsic rewards, it delays learning to value intrinsic rewards. Many of our children need to focus much, much more on intrinsic reward. However, because they do not value it much right now, it helps to combine the extrinsic (movie) with intrinsic (family going out and being together).

Just because that worked for your child, does not mean it works for everyone. Parents have to keep trying to see what works and for some the rewards system works.

[Anonymous]

Well I did the whole rewards thing, charts, tokens, jars, gold stars, device time, you name it. It made him devalue homework, helping the family out, whatever goal we set for him. Yes, everything got done. But the bigger goal was growing further and further out of reach. We began to give extrinsic rewards that were combined with intrinsic or included socialization time, and it helped to teach him why and how to value intrinsic goals and people. It takes much longer but it does work for many kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well I did the whole rewards thing, charts, tokens, jars, gold stars, device time, you name it. It made him devalue homework, helping the family out, whatever goal we set for him. Yes, everything got done. But the bigger goal was growing further and further out of reach. We began to give extrinsic rewards that were combined with intrinsic or included socialization time, and it helped to teach him why and how to value intrinsic goals and people. It takes much longer but it does work for many kids.

We don't have this problem with our reward system.. Nor does our child throw a tantrum if the teacher forgets to give him his reward for meeting his behavioral goals at school. He knows that he will get it the next day when he reminds her.

We had a functional behavioral assessment and a behavioral intervention plan by a trained behaviorist done for school and the reward system has been life changing without any downsides.