TJ info sessions at MS

[Anonymous]

Yes, when they opened up TJ to more than just a few wealthy feeders, it also stoked more interest especially with groups who had been previously shut out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For parents that went to info sessions, at ours when answering a question they said that a student has better chance to get accepted at MIT and Harvard if stay at base school than to compete against all the other TJ kids. Know that is speculated in posts here on DCUM, but I was surprised when it was said by to room of people. Is it a new talking point? I would have thought would just be silent on that and especially to not name any schools.

Session we attended was… odd. It seemed more of a don’t apply session. Cannot even fully say why, but felt like our school was a stop they had to but did not want to do. People that were going to apply will still apply, but was still weird.

They are trying to dissuade applications from the traditional feeder schools, while increasing the number of applicants from schools who usually send few to no students to TJ.

It’s all about diversity.

That sounds more like another paranoid delusion.

Wait:

- are you claiming the prior school board did not alter the TJ admissions requirements for diversity reasons?

Because, they altered admissions for racial diversity reasons. That is not a “paranoid delusion.” That is a fact.

Aside from their public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages. You have no evidence of that.
Well, there was also the study they commissioned specifically to figure out the best ways to increase racial diversity at TJ. But aside from those things, you have no evidence.
NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVAH!!!

Evidence, there is!



Like I said, no evidence other than "public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages"
Oh and the study they commissioned to figure out how to get specific racial compositions.
So aside from that evidence, there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!

Other than racial discrimination, there is no discrimination at all!

I have to agree. The idea there's any racial discrimination is preposterous. Asian enrollment is currently at a historic high, and the largest beneficiaries of the process change were low-income Asians. Further, admission data shows that all racial cohorts are admitted within a few percent of each other based on the admission-to-application ratio. Selection by law is race-blind, and even the right-leaning SCOTUS wouldn't even take the C4$TJ case.

The TJ program is legal and I very much support the 1.5% rule but it is NOT true that Asian enrollment is at an all time it. It is still extremely high both as a percentage of the school and in proportion to Asian students in NOVA but it was slightly higher in the classes before the reform.

There are posts on this board that show that it is at a historic high. This was using public data and is indisputable.

The asian population is 100 students smaller now than in the year before the change despite the school having over 200 more students.

In the fall of 2021, TJ had 1809 students, 1303 of whom were Asian (72%). This fall TJ has 2111 students, 1278 of whom were Asian (61%).

The goal was to decrease the percentage of Asian students, and the best way to do that was to make it more difficult to get in from the top feeders, which themselves were - and still are - heavily Asian.

This is incredibly misleading. A while ago, someone posted the numbers that showed admissions vs. applications for the major demographic cohorts, and all were within a few percent of each other. Asians weren't the highest or the lowest. It looked incredibly fair and balanced.

It looked a cross section of the applicant pool. Which would be fine is academic ability was evenly spread through the applicant pool. But it's not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, when they opened up TJ to more than just a few wealthy feeders, it also stoked more interest especially with groups who had been previously shut out.

Nobody was ever shut out, they just had to be the best.
The single largest increase in racial groups under the new system was white kids.
Were white kids shut out too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our MS has a session and it’s a top feeder. Are these sessions mostly attended by 8th grade parents or are there a bunch of 7th grade parents too, if they know kid is planning to apply.

Parents are allowed to attend these sessions? My DD is an AAP student, recieved an email that they are eligible to apply, and attended an in-school session session about TJ but as far as I'm aware, there was no info session that parents were invited to. Does it depend on the school or should all feeder schools be offering this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our MS has a session and it’s a top feeder. Are these sessions mostly attended by 8th grade parents or are there a bunch of 7th grade parents too, if they know kid is planning to apply.

Parents are allowed to attend these sessions? My DD is an AAP student, recieved an email that they are eligible to apply, and attended an in-school session session about TJ but as far as I'm aware, there was no info session that parents were invited to. Does it depend on the school or should all feeder schools be offering this?

Carson sent an email that included information about a TJ info session for families. We didn’t attend because we have a 7th grader and I know what the requirements are to apply. I assume that DS will want to attend next year and we will go.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For parents that went to info sessions, at ours when answering a question they said that a student has better chance to get accepted at MIT and Harvard if stay at base school than to compete against all the other TJ kids. Know that is speculated in posts here on DCUM, but I was surprised when it was said by to room of people. Is it a new talking point? I would have thought would just be silent on that and especially to not name any schools.

Session we attended was… odd. It seemed more of a don’t apply session. Cannot even fully say why, but felt like our school was a stop they had to but did not want to do. People that were going to apply will still apply, but was still weird.

They are trying to dissuade applications from the traditional feeder schools, while increasing the number of applicants from schools who usually send few to no students to TJ.

It’s all about diversity.

That sounds more like another paranoid delusion.

Wait:

- are you claiming the prior school board did not alter the TJ admissions requirements for diversity reasons?

Because, they altered admissions for racial diversity reasons. That is not a “paranoid delusion.” That is a fact.

Aside from their public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages. You have no evidence of that.
Well, there was also the study they commissioned specifically to figure out the best ways to increase racial diversity at TJ. But aside from those things, you have no evidence.
NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVAH!!!

Evidence, there is!



Like I said, no evidence other than "public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages"
Oh and the study they commissioned to figure out how to get specific racial compositions.
So aside from that evidence, there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!

Other than racial discrimination, there is no discrimination at all!

I have to agree. The idea there's any racial discrimination is preposterous. Asian enrollment is currently at a historic high, and the largest beneficiaries of the process change were low-income Asians. Further, admission data shows that all racial cohorts are admitted within a few percent of each other based on the admission-to-application ratio. Selection by law is race-blind, and even the right-leaning SCOTUS wouldn't even take the C4$TJ case.

The TJ program is legal and I very much support the 1.5% rule but it is NOT true that Asian enrollment is at an all time it. It is still extremely high both as a percentage of the school and in proportion to Asian students in NOVA but it was slightly higher in the classes before the reform.

There are posts on this board that show that it is at a historic high. This was using public data and is indisputable.

The asian population is 100 students smaller now than in the year before the change despite the school having over 200 more students.

In the fall of 2021, TJ had 1809 students, 1303 of whom were Asian (72%). This fall TJ has 2111 students, 1278 of whom were Asian (61%).

The goal was to decrease the percentage of Asian students, and the best way to do that was to make it more difficult to get in from the top feeders, which themselves were - and still are - heavily Asian.

The goal was NOT to decrease the percentage of Asian students. The goal was to increase the percentage of students coming from disadvantaged economic backgrounds.

It went without saying that there was a strong likelihood that the percentage of Asian students would decrease as a result of the changes, mostly because the explosion in Asian population at TJ from classes of 2010 to 2024 is almost entirely explainable by the mass migration of South Asian families to the Dulles corridor during that same time period. Which happened because you had the combining factors of the tech boom and the worldwide attention placed on TJ from being named America's top high school by USNWR.

Those South Asian families are the single wealthiest demographic subgroup in Northern Virginia, and by a pretty healthy margin. And they were, as a cohort, extremely motivated to send their kids to TJ - no one argues this point.

Now, we can have an argument about whether or not it is a noble endeavor to open access to TJ to students who happened to be born into suboptimal economic circumstances, when it was de facto closed to them before.

But literally no part of this was EVER about reducing the percentage of Asian students. And yes, I acknowledge that they knew it was going to happen, not that it matters. That's what happens when you face a problem of overrepresentation - eliminating the cause of the overrepresentation will eliminate the overrepresentation. As I've said hundreds of times here, the fact that it impacts you doesn't make it about you, any more than UVA's decision to start admitting women in the 1970's was about men.

And what makes this ever more exhausting is this disingenuous bad-faith attempt at victimhood by folks claiming to represent the "Asian community", as though that's some monolithic thing that exists. To the extent that there are any "victims" here, they are kids who almost uniformly come from very well-off families that will be able to secure internships, go to fantastic colleges (better than they'd get into if they went to TJ), and in most cases probably graduate without any student debt. The delta for these kids between their lives attending or not attending TJ is basically zero.

[Anonymous]

They have a 32 minute video that says it all. I don’t even know why they pay someone to give the same presentation to every middle school in the county. That’s kind of a waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They have a 32 minute video that says it all. I don’t even know why they pay someone to give the same presentation to every middle school in the county. That’s kind of a waste.

Well, for one thing, that person answers questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parents that went to info sessions, at ours when answering a question they said that a student has better chance to get accepted at MIT and Harvard if stay at base school than to compete against all the other TJ kids. Know that is speculated in posts here on DCUM, but I was surprised when it was said by to room of people. Is it a new talking point? I would have thought would just be silent on that and especially to not name any schools.

Session we attended was… odd. It seemed more of a don’t apply session. Cannot even fully say why, but felt like our school was a stop they had to but did not want to do. People that were going to apply will still apply, but was still weird.

They are trying to dissuade applications from the traditional feeder schools, while increasing the number of applicants from schools who usually send few to no students to TJ.

It’s all about diversity.

That sounds more like another paranoid delusion.

Wait:

- are you claiming the prior school board did not alter the TJ admissions requirements for diversity reasons?

Because, they altered admissions for racial diversity reasons. That is not a “paranoid delusion.” That is a fact.

Aside from their public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages. You have no evidence of that.
Well, there was also the study they commissioned specifically to figure out the best ways to increase racial diversity at TJ. But aside from those things, you have no evidence.
NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVAH!!!

Evidence, there is!



Like I said, no evidence other than "public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages"
Oh and the study they commissioned to figure out how to get specific racial compositions.
So aside from that evidence, there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!

Other than racial discrimination, there is no discrimination at all!

I have to agree. The idea there's any racial discrimination is preposterous. Asian enrollment is currently at a historic high, and the largest beneficiaries of the process change were low-income Asians. Further, admission data shows that all racial cohorts are admitted within a few percent of each other based on the admission-to-application ratio. Selection by law is race-blind, and even the right-leaning SCOTUS wouldn't even take the C4$TJ case.

The TJ program is legal and I very much support the 1.5% rule but it is NOT true that Asian enrollment is at an all time it. It is still extremely high both as a percentage of the school and in proportion to Asian students in NOVA but it was slightly higher in the classes before the reform.

There are posts on this board that show that it is at a historic high. This was using public data and is indisputable.

The asian population is 100 students smaller now than in the year before the change despite the school having over 200 more students.

In the fall of 2021, TJ had 1809 students, 1303 of whom were Asian (72%). This fall TJ has 2111 students, 1278 of whom were Asian (61%).

The goal was to decrease the percentage of Asian students, and the best way to do that was to make it more difficult to get in from the top feeders, which themselves were - and still are - heavily Asian.

The goal was NOT to decrease the percentage of Asian students. The goal was to increase the percentage of students coming from disadvantaged economic backgrounds.

It went without saying that there was a strong likelihood that the percentage of Asian students would decrease as a result of the changes, mostly because the explosion in Asian population at TJ from classes of 2010 to 2024 is almost entirely explainable by the mass migration of South Asian families to the Dulles corridor during that same time period. Which happened because you had the combining factors of the tech boom and the worldwide attention placed on TJ from being named America's top high school by USNWR.

Those South Asian families are the single wealthiest demographic subgroup in Northern Virginia, and by a pretty healthy margin. And they were, as a cohort, extremely motivated to send their kids to TJ - no one argues this point.

Now, we can have an argument about whether or not it is a noble endeavor to open access to TJ to students who happened to be born into suboptimal economic circumstances, when it was de facto closed to them before.

But literally no part of this was EVER about reducing the percentage of Asian students. And yes, I acknowledge that they knew it was going to happen, not that it matters. That's what happens when you face a problem of overrepresentation - eliminating the cause of the overrepresentation will eliminate the overrepresentation. As I've said hundreds of times here, the fact that it impacts you doesn't make it about you, any more than UVA's decision to start admitting women in the 1970's was about men.

And what makes this ever more exhausting is this disingenuous bad-faith attempt at victimhood by folks claiming to represent the "Asian community", as though that's some monolithic thing that exists. To the extent that there are any "victims" here, they are kids who almost uniformly come from very well-off families that will be able to secure internships, go to fantastic colleges (better than they'd get into if they went to TJ), and in most cases probably graduate without any student debt. The delta for these kids between their lives attending or not attending TJ is basically zero.

Every part! The conversation between board members mentions targeting Asians specifically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parents that went to info sessions, at ours when answering a question they said that a student has better chance to get accepted at MIT and Harvard if stay at base school than to compete against all the other TJ kids. Know that is speculated in posts here on DCUM, but I was surprised when it was said by to room of people. Is it a new talking point? I would have thought would just be silent on that and especially to not name any schools.

Who said this?
I can't imagine anyone from FCPS said this.
How many TJ kids got into Ivy+ last 3 years vs the rest of FCPS?

Said worked at Gatehouse. Not a TJ teacher. It was a surprising statement to be saying at a general info meeting, but again the whole meeting had a vibe of don’t apply.

I heard from a staff member at ours that it had the same vibe. They said that only 3-4 kids would get in (strong, but not too or previously listed AAP center), so don't set hopes on getting in.

Are they getting rid of the 1.5% rule?

1.5% is not feasible; it's a farce. TJ admissions cannot expect students to meet the school’s rigorous standards when applicants from under-performing schools have only been prepared for low-level middle school academics. Even the student enrolling with lowest TJ Math 1 may not be prepared sufficiently in per-algebra, and that's on FCPS for enabling substandard middle schools without addressing quality concerns.

What middle schools don't have sufficient numbers of kids taking at least geometry? Even Whitman manages to have a geometry class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a 32 minute video that says it all. I don’t even know why they pay someone to give the same presentation to every middle school in the county. That’s kind of a waste.

Well, for one thing, that person answers questions.

Video would have been better at ours if wanted just the facts and a positive look at the school. The questions answered at live info session sounded more like directed statements and reasons for kids to not apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parents that went to info sessions, at ours when answering a question they said that a student has better chance to get accepted at MIT and Harvard if stay at base school than to compete against all the other TJ kids. Know that is speculated in posts here on DCUM, but I was surprised when it was said by to room of people. Is it a new talking point? I would have thought would just be silent on that and especially to not name any schools.

Who said this?
I can't imagine anyone from FCPS said this.
How many TJ kids got into Ivy+ last 3 years vs the rest of FCPS?

Said worked at Gatehouse. Not a TJ teacher. It was a surprising statement to be saying at a general info meeting, but again the whole meeting had a vibe of don’t apply.

I heard from a staff member at ours that it had the same vibe. They said that only 3-4 kids would get in (strong, but not too or previously listed AAP center), so don't set hopes on getting in.

Are they getting rid of the 1.5% rule?

1.5% is not feasible; it's a farce. TJ admissions cannot expect students to meet the school’s rigorous standards when applicants from under-performing schools have only been prepared for low-level middle school academics. Even the student enrolling with lowest TJ Math 1 may not be prepared sufficiently in per-algebra, and that's on FCPS for enabling substandard middle schools without addressing quality concerns.

What middle schools don't have sufficient numbers of kids taking at least geometry? Even Whitman manages to have a geometry class

Well, there are thousands of students taking middle school math, but the low SOL scores show there is drastic difference in math learning proficiency from one school to another, but obscured by the inflated GPAs. The current essay process has no way of evaluating and offering the most proficient students at Whitman, and hence the huge increase in lowest level TJ math and remedial enrollment, or rejection of offers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have a 32 minute video that says it all. I don’t even know why they pay someone to give the same presentation to every middle school in the county. That’s kind of a waste.

Well, for one thing, that person answers questions.

Video would have been better at ours if wanted just the facts and a positive look at the school. The questions answered at live info session sounded more like directed statements and reasons for kids to not apply.

Yeah I was surprised as well. If I was prone to conspiracy theory, I would suspect some of them of being plants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For parents that went to info sessions, at ours when answering a question they said that a student has better chance to get accepted at MIT and Harvard if stay at base school than to compete against all the other TJ kids. Know that is speculated in posts here on DCUM, but I was surprised when it was said by to room of people. Is it a new talking point? I would have thought would just be silent on that and especially to not name any schools.

Session we attended was… odd. It seemed more of a don’t apply session. Cannot even fully say why, but felt like our school was a stop they had to but did not want to do. People that were going to apply will still apply, but was still weird.

They are trying to dissuade applications from the traditional feeder schools, while increasing the number of applicants from schools who usually send few to no students to TJ.

It’s all about diversity.

That sounds more like another paranoid delusion.

Wait:

- are you claiming the prior school board did not alter the TJ admissions requirements for diversity reasons?

Because, they altered admissions for racial diversity reasons. That is not a “paranoid delusion.” That is a fact.

Aside from their public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages. You have no evidence of that.
Well, there was also the study they commissioned specifically to figure out the best ways to increase racial diversity at TJ. But aside from those things, you have no evidence.
NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVAH!!!

Evidence, there is!



Like I said, no evidence other than "public statements, their internal emails and personal text messages"
Oh and the study they commissioned to figure out how to get specific racial compositions.
So aside from that evidence, there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!

Other than racial discrimination, there is no discrimination at all!

I have to agree. The idea there's any racial discrimination is preposterous. Asian enrollment is currently at a historic high, and the largest beneficiaries of the process change were low-income Asians. Further, admission data shows that all racial cohorts are admitted within a few percent of each other based on the admission-to-application ratio. Selection by law is race-blind, and even the right-leaning SCOTUS wouldn't even take the C4$TJ case.

The TJ program is legal and I very much support the 1.5% rule but it is NOT true that Asian enrollment is at an all time it. It is still extremely high both as a percentage of the school and in proportion to Asian students in NOVA but it was slightly higher in the classes before the reform.

There are posts on this board that show that it is at a historic high. This was using public data and is indisputable.

The asian population is 100 students smaller now than in the year before the change despite the school having over 200 more students.

In the fall of 2021, TJ had 1809 students, 1303 of whom were Asian (72%). This fall TJ has 2111 students, 1278 of whom were Asian (61%).

The goal was to decrease the percentage of Asian students, and the best way to do that was to make it more difficult to get in from the top feeders, which themselves were - and still are - heavily Asian.

The goal was NOT to decrease the percentage of Asian students. The goal was to increase the percentage of students coming from disadvantaged economic backgrounds.

It went without saying that there was a strong likelihood that the percentage of Asian students would decrease as a result of the changes, mostly because the explosion in Asian population at TJ from classes of 2010 to 2024 is almost entirely explainable by the mass migration of South Asian families to the Dulles corridor during that same time period. Which happened because you had the combining factors of the tech boom and the worldwide attention placed on TJ from being named America's top high school by USNWR.

Those South Asian families are the single wealthiest demographic subgroup in Northern Virginia, and by a pretty healthy margin. And they were, as a cohort, extremely motivated to send their kids to TJ - no one argues this point.

Now, we can have an argument about whether or not it is a noble endeavor to open access to TJ to students who happened to be born into suboptimal economic circumstances, when it was de facto closed to them before.

But literally no part of this was EVER about reducing the percentage of Asian students. And yes, I acknowledge that they knew it was going to happen, not that it matters. That's what happens when you face a problem of overrepresentation - eliminating the cause of the overrepresentation will eliminate the overrepresentation. As I've said hundreds of times here, the fact that it impacts you doesn't make it about you, any more than UVA's decision to start admitting women in the 1970's was about men.

And what makes this ever more exhausting is this disingenuous bad-faith attempt at victimhood by folks claiming to represent the "Asian community", as though that's some monolithic thing that exists. To the extent that there are any "victims" here, they are kids who almost uniformly come from very well-off families that will be able to secure internships, go to fantastic colleges (better than they'd get into if they went to TJ), and in most cases probably graduate without any student debt. The delta for these kids between their lives attending or not attending TJ is basically zero.

Every part! The conversation between board members mentions targeting Asians specifically.

You inadvertently made my point for me here. That conversation was between two School Board members about Brabrand’s terrible “Merit Lottery” proposal that went nowhere.

These School Board members demanded a better policy because the one referenced here was pointless. Thank goodness they did. They could have just as easily voted in favor of the Merit Lottery, which would have been a step backwards for TJ instead of a step forwards.

[Anonymous]

Now, more than 120+ students in lowest level TJ math, who'll graduate with less course rigor than any base school. Not a step forward, but way backwards.