Anybody following the Karen Read trial in Boston?

[Anonymous]

She probably hit him accidentally but there is enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through so I think she’ll be found not guilty or the jury will be hung. When are closing arguments scheduled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She probably hit him accidentally but there is enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through so I think she’ll be found not guilty or the jury will be hung. When are closing arguments scheduled?

Likely after the 4th. The judge will likely allow the defense’s dog bit expert/doctor/medical examiner/mass police officer (the woman’s background is amazingly on point) and she gave the state a week to find and prep a rebuttal witness.

[Anonymous]

I think it's likely she hit him accidentally. I don't think there's any evidence at all that she hit him on purpose and certainly not that she intended him to die.

What I wonder is if there's some chance the cops in the house saw him out there lying in the snow and didn't intervene for whatever reason. I don't think it's crazy that they didn't see him for the reasons the PP ex-P/ex-D said, but I also think it's totally possible that they *did*. So they're texting each other, the GF is searching to figure out either if he's already dead or if he'll still be alive in the morning. Maybe because they were high on illicit substances? Maybe because they drove home drunk and thought they'd get in trouble? Any chance they were dealing? Who knows.

I do agree that the smashing their phones could be evidence of unrelated criminal or otherwise embarrassing conduct and isn't evidence per se that they had anything to do with his death. I do wonder about the search though... First, I believe FBI over local cops 10/10 times over when it happened. Second, even if we imagine it happened right after the body was found. Why? If the theory at the time was that he died from trauma, why would she be searching for how long it takes to die from hypothermia? One reason would be if they did see him out there earlier, thought he was already dead and now learned he wasn't... or similar.

I am very curious about the Feds report in COD. If it's just that he died of hypothermia vice a car accident or if they actually say there was an entirely different COD. Is it possible he got into a fight with the cop buddies and then stormed off? Maybe they didn't realize he was out there still? I don't know.

[Anonymous]

^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

Backing up 60 feet at 24 mph is typical for you?

[Anonymous]

I'm curious why the prosecution wanted to enter those angry calls from KR to JO into evidence. Don't they show that she thought he was alive? Doesn't that = not guilty of murder? There has to be intent to leave him for dead for 2nd degree murder vs DUI. To me, those calls show that even IF she knew she hit him, she thought he was alive/fine. What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

Also, now we see that KR left at 12:25. That means she hit him when a bunch of witnesses say they were outside/looking NOT 20 minutes later when no one was out there. I still think she probably hit him, but either it seemed like no big deal even to people who were there/watching (maybe he got back up initially?) OR they did see him go down & didn't render aid. It's very odd to think she could have done this big 3 point turn drop off with super fast/long reverse period and none of the people out there at the same time noticed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, now we see that KR left at 12:25. That means she hit him when a bunch of witnesses say they were outside/looking NOT 20 minutes later when no one was out there. I still think she probably hit him, but either it seemed like no big deal even to people who were there/watching (maybe he got back up initially?) OR they did see him go down & didn't render aid. It's very odd to think she could have done this big 3 point turn drop off with super fast/long reverse period and none of the people out there at the same time noticed.

I bet if she hit him, all of the ring camera from the neighbors wouldn't have conveniently been deleted!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

First, the prosecutor charged murder, not the cops. There is no evidence the DA is biased against Read and in Massachusetts the degree of murder with which she is charged doesn’t require a showing that she intended to kill him. All that is required is to show that she acted with a degree of recklessness that could result in death, and I think (former prosecutor here) that the state is making that case given her BAC and the data from her car that shows she reversed at a high rate of speed into the area where he was standing after existing her vehicle, most likely following a heated argument.

The voicemails show the level of emotional lability Read was exhibiting while driving and afterward with a BAC 2-3x the legal limit. They also show that her anger at O’Keefe, which was exhibited in text messages, Facebook messenger messages, and frantic repeated attempts to call him all day had continued to escalate after their hours out drinking and culminated in this reckless murderous act and her continued raging at him by voicemails and dozens upon dozens of phone calls attempting to reach him so she could scream at him some more.

No, she didn’t premeditate his killing. No, she likely didn’t intend it either. But she acted out of drunken rage and probably thought she was showing him what’s what by knocking him on his ass or even just scaring him with a close drive by as he stood there - maybe after he told her he was DONE with her and maybe flipping her off as she drove away. Her act was extremely reckless and it killed John - second degree murder under Massachusetts law.

It’s not overcharged based on the evidence. If you excised the whole BS defense theory from the equation and just looked at the facts established by the actual evidence, it is outrageous how she acted. She’s a murdering drunken drama queen who probably suffers borderline personality disorder.

[Anonymous]

And honestly, whatever you think of cops - I’ve worked with them as closely as anyone and some of them disgusted me but some of them exhibited great heroism and integrity, so I think they’re like all of the rest of us they just have more power - it’s awful to suggest that the folks in that house, a few cops and mostly a bunch of people who loved John O’Keefe and his kids, would have left him out there to die knowing he was lying in the snow incapacitated.

The ugliness around this case is just sickening to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Me again. I really do think the decision to charge with murder is itself evidence of bias against Read, which isn't helpful to the prosecutor's case. They appear to have zero evidence that she hit him on purpose or intended him to die. At most, they have a possible motive. I am actually surprised the judge allowed the charge to proceed.

First, the prosecutor charged murder, not the cops. There is no evidence the DA is biased against Read and in Massachusetts the degree of murder with which she is charged doesn’t require a showing that she intended to kill him. All that is required is to show that she acted with a degree of recklessness that could result in death, and I think (former prosecutor here) that the state is making that case given her BAC and the data from her car that shows she reversed at a high rate of speed into the area where he was standing after existing her vehicle, most likely following a heated argument.

The voicemails show the level of emotional lability Read was exhibiting while driving and afterward with a BAC 2-3x the legal limit. They also show that her anger at O’Keefe, which was exhibited in text messages, Facebook messenger messages, and frantic repeated attempts to call him all day had continued to escalate after their hours out drinking and culminated in this reckless murderous act and her continued raging at him by voicemails and dozens upon dozens of phone calls attempting to reach him so she could scream at him some more.

No, she didn’t premeditate his killing. No, she likely didn’t intend it either. But she acted out of drunken rage and probably thought she was showing him what’s what by knocking him on his ass or even just scaring him with a close drive by as he stood there - maybe after he told her he was DONE with her and maybe flipping her off as she drove away. Her act was extremely reckless and it killed John - second degree murder under Massachusetts law.

It’s not overcharged based on the evidence. If you excised the whole BS defense theory from the equation and just looked at the facts established by the actual evidence, it is outrageous how she acted. She’s a murdering drunken drama queen who probably suffers borderline personality disorder.

A point of clarification- it was actually a grand jury of Massachusetts citizens who voted for her to be charged with murder, not the prosecutor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no doubt she is guilty of hitting him. It is really her defense that leads to what could be over charging. If she had said yes I hit him and it is all a big mistake we would not be where we are.

Cops are bad. But too much here.

Also -- on that google search -- most likely not until later after the body found.

Are you actually watching the trial? You were convinced by Trooper Things and Stuff? Who said she hit his arm on the elbow/biceps, which caused the taillight to explode in pieces but also resulted in zero bruising or fractures to said arm? And then he did a single rotation, where he arm got cut, and then was launched 30 feet into the air to his final resting place? And then he sat there for two hours and none of the people leaving the house saw him on the front lawn, nor did anyone driving by? And there were eight "butt dials" by people who were in the house during the exact time he died?

O-KAY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And honestly, whatever you think of cops - I’ve worked with them as closely as anyone and some of them disgusted me but some of them exhibited great heroism and integrity, so I think they’re like all of the rest of us they just have more power - it’s awful to suggest that the folks in that house, a few cops and mostly a bunch of people who loved John O’Keefe and his kids, would have left him out there to die knowing he was lying in the snow incapacitated.

The ugliness around this case is just sickening to me.

He actually didn't know most of the people in the house very well. Only Jen McCabe.

And the only cop in the house that night was Brian Albert Sr. The people in the house have LINKS to cops (Kevin Albert is Brian's brother, Colin Albert was a ring bearer in Proctor's sister's wedding, etc.) But there was just one cop in the house.

And I think it's pretty rich to say it's "awful to suggest" cops did anything wrong here after listening to the Proctor texts and the c u n t and leaky balloon knot. THESE PARTICULAR cops are bad apples, straight up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And honestly, whatever you think of cops - I’ve worked with them as closely as anyone and some of them disgusted me but some of them exhibited great heroism and integrity, so I think they’re like all of the rest of us they just have more power - it’s awful to suggest that the folks in that house, a few cops and mostly a bunch of people who loved John O’Keefe and his kids, would have left him out there to die knowing he was lying in the snow incapacitated.

The ugliness around this case is just sickening to me.

He actually didn't know most of the people in the house very well. Only Jen McCabe.

And the only cop in the house that night was Brian Albert Sr. The people in the house have LINKS to cops (Kevin Albert is Brian's brother, Colin Albert was a ring bearer in Proctor's sister's wedding, etc.) But there was just one cop in the house.

And I think it's pretty rich to say it's "awful to suggest" cops did anything wrong here after listening to the Proctor texts and the c u n t and leaky balloon knot. THESE PARTICULAR cops are bad apples, straight up.

Brian Higgins is a cop and was in the house that night.

I’m a female former prosecutor so there is very little I don’t already know about the misogyny of some cops - it’s a hyper masculine profession with a higher than average rate of domestic violence, so yes some of them refer to females as c*nts.

And some of the husbands of women posting here do the same thing among their male buddies and behind wifey’s back. Bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc.

Are you only just realizing we live in what is still a deeply misogynistic society? Have you not noticed the powerful movement of men and brainwashed women trying to take away the bodily autonomy of women?

There is no evidence that Proctor failed to follow the evidence where it was pointing - including the evidence of the perpetrator’s confession to half a dozen people at least.

And yeah, some cops are going to call the female perpetrator who murders another cop the C word. Can you really blame them? She ran him down like he was a stray dog in the road. I’m a feminist female and I think she’s a c*nt - she’s an embodiment of everything women get painted with because some of them actually are psycho clingy demanding and ultimately a killer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And honestly, whatever you think of cops - I’ve worked with them as closely as anyone and some of them disgusted me but some of them exhibited great heroism and integrity, so I think they’re like all of the rest of us they just have more power - it’s awful to suggest that the folks in that house, a few cops and mostly a bunch of people who loved John O’Keefe and his kids, would have left him out there to die knowing he was lying in the snow incapacitated.

The ugliness around this case is just sickening to me.

He actually didn't know most of the people in the house very well. Only Jen McCabe.

And the only cop in the house that night was Brian Albert Sr. The people in the house have LINKS to cops (Kevin Albert is Brian's brother, Colin Albert was a ring bearer in Proctor's sister's wedding, etc.) But there was just one cop in the house.

And I think it's pretty rich to say it's "awful to suggest" cops did anything wrong here after listening to the Proctor texts and the c u n t and leaky balloon knot. THESE PARTICULAR cops are bad apples, straight up.

Brian Higgins is a cop and was in the house that night.

I’m a female former prosecutor so there is very little I don’t already know about the misogyny of some cops - it’s a hyper masculine profession with a higher than average rate of domestic violence, so yes some of them refer to females as c*nts.

And some of the husbands of women posting here do the same thing among their male buddies and behind wifey’s back. Bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc.

Are you only just realizing we live in what is still a deeply misogynistic society? Have you not noticed the powerful movement of men and brainwashed women trying to take away the bodily autonomy of women?

There is no evidence that Proctor failed to follow the evidence where it was pointing - including the evidence of the perpetrator’s confession to half a dozen people at least.

And yeah, some cops are going to call the female perpetrator who murders another cop the C word. Can you really blame them? She ran him down like he was a stray dog in the road. I’m a feminist female and I think she’s a c*nt - she’s an embodiment of everything women get painted with because some of them actually are psycho clingy demanding and ultimately a killer.

Procter didn’t even enter the house and told his buddies the homeowner was fine because he was a Boston cop. Jen McCabe implicated KR and proctor ran with it. Talk about lazy. I live in Norfolk county and am absolutely outraged by law enforcement.