Concerned about buying in WJ cluster because of re-zoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as if being zoned to Woodward is comparable to a mass extinction event

No one said that. Posters are talking about house prices going down if you get rezoned from WJ to Woodward.

WJ and Woodward couldn’t be closer to each other. They’ll bus equal number of DCC schools to each of WJ and Woodward. They’re going to be identical, and high performing, schools.

Both will be lower performing school than current WJ and it will have impact on house price.

Classy.

So we've come to this:

I am not the PP, but do you find anything factually wrong here? OP was worried about house prices going down in WJ due to boundary change and I do't see how previous comments being off target.

It's not factually wrong, but it's ethically wrong, to lament that the addition of more children of color to your school is going to bring down your investments.

People are dropping dog whistles like "college readiness" will go down, scores will go down. But they know full well this is about bringing more lower income Hispanic and black kids into their school.

It may be the case of you looking from certain angle. I see it as OP being worried about house prices and if you think his concerns are wrong then counter it. I didn't see OP getting worried about race of kids joining Woodward/WJ. A genuine concerns shouldn't be brushed aside due to assumptions.

I am not the PP and I won't be concerned about race of kids attending my kid's school, but I will be surely concerned about house prices going down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Predicted future high school distributions:

WJ/Woodward: Mixture of current WJ plus two DCC elementary school areas and maybe one Whitman school (perhaps Bradley Hills). Will create two very good schools, but not Whitman level.
BCC: Bethesda Elementary, the three Chevy Chase elementaries (CC, NCC, and RCF) and probably Somerset; no appreciable change in test scores from the change (ie remains an extremely strong school, but with some lower scoring demographics included).
Whitman: add Westbrook and maybe Somerset from BCC and cede Bradley Hills to WJ/Woodward. No other changes; cements status as highest scoring MoCo district.
Churchill: no change

I think this is probably right. The only question I have is whether the county will find a way to inject a little diversity into Whitman along the way. I don't see an obvious way to do that, but it does seem to go against what the BoE has been all about to embark on a major change to the HS in and around Bethesda while making the richest, white-est HS even wealthier and whiter than ever while the others (BCC, WJ, and Woodward) include some racial/ethnic/SES diversity.

Whitman at the end of the day is in a rich white area. Being blocked off by the river and DC while surrounded by other rich white areas limits what can be done. They will get a token amount of tokens when Westbard is developed.

Not to mention they just made Westland richer and whiter which is in the Whitman district despite being a BCC middle school. That is sort of the trend west of Wisconsin. As the east is changing faster than the county can adapt, old forces are bunkering down. It will be the last area to change.

Chevy Chase isn’t going to change either, and I’d assume the part of Silver Spring near SS metro becomes whiter. The rest of the county probably does follow your prediction.

Silver spring would have a very long way to go, not likely. Woodside def mostly white, the rest not so much. Not Georgia, not Fenton, not Sligo, not 16th st, not Wayne, not even close on Thayer or flower.

Wait have you ever been to silver spring?

Silver spring will never we white, in fact it is trending the in complete opposite direction. What it has is a few mostly white neighborhoods that trick a few people into thinking they live in a different sort of area with their bubble glasses on

You are describing the area as a whole. The DC area is general, including DC proper, is moving in the opposite direction. Whites are a minority. But of course, there are white neighborhoods in DC, MD, and VA. This is not new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as if being zoned to Woodward is comparable to a mass extinction event

No one said that. Posters are talking about house prices going down if you get rezoned from WJ to Woodward.

WJ and Woodward couldn’t be closer to each other. They’ll bus equal number of DCC schools to each of WJ and Woodward. They’re going to be identical, and high performing, schools.

Both will be lower performing school than current WJ and it will have impact on house price.

Classy.

So we've come to this:

I am not the PP, but do you find anything factually wrong here? OP was worried about house prices going down in WJ due to boundary change and I do't see how previous comments being off target.

It's not factually wrong, but it's ethically wrong, to lament that the addition of more children of color to your school is going to bring down your investments.

People are dropping dog whistles like "college readiness" will go down, scores will go down. But they know full well this is about bringing more lower income Hispanic and black kids into their school.

It may be the case of you looking from certain angle. I see it as OP being worried about house prices and if you think his concerns are wrong then counter it. I didn't see OP getting worried about race of kids joining Woodward/WJ. A genuine concerns shouldn't be brushed aside due to assumptions.

I am not the PP and I won't be concerned about race of kids attending my kid's school, but I will be surely concerned about house prices going down.

Ok then, why do you think house prices will go down? Is it about test scores and GreatSchools ratings? Then yes, actually that is about race. Einstein doesn't have worse teachers or facilities or principal than WJ. It has lower test scores for one reason only and that's demographics. That is the only possible reason why people could fear their home prices going down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as if being zoned to Woodward is comparable to a mass extinction event

No one said that. Posters are talking about house prices going down if you get rezoned from WJ to Woodward.

WJ and Woodward couldn’t be closer to each other. They’ll bus equal number of DCC schools to each of WJ and Woodward. They’re going to be identical, and high performing, schools.

Both will be lower performing school than current WJ and it will have impact on house price.

Classy.

So we've come to this:

I am not the PP, but do you find anything factually wrong here? OP was worried about house prices going down in WJ due to boundary change and I do't see how previous comments being off target.

It's not factually wrong, but it's ethically wrong, to lament that the addition of more children of color to your school is going to bring down your investments.

People are dropping dog whistles like "college readiness" will go down, scores will go down. But they know full well this is about bringing more lower income Hispanic and black kids into their school.

It may be the case of you looking from certain angle. I see it as OP being worried about house prices and if you think his concerns are wrong then counter it. I didn't see OP getting worried about race of kids joining Woodward/WJ. A genuine concerns shouldn't be brushed aside due to assumptions.

I am not the PP and I won't be concerned about race of kids attending my kid's school, but I will be surely concerned about house prices going down.

Ok then, why do you think house prices will go down? Is it about test scores and GreatSchools ratings?

Absolutely it's about that. You simply have to look at test scores of elementary schools which may join Woodward. Reason for lower test scores are irrelevant for OP, but lower test scores are simply going to drive down prices.

There are plenty of majority white schools in MD with low test scores. So let's not accuse OP for something which may be a non-issue for him/her.

[Anonymous]

I find some posts here amusing.

Some one is making a point that low test scores are going to bring price down.

Other poster then starts accusing that hey you are not concerned about house prices, you are concerned about demography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as if being zoned to Woodward is comparable to a mass extinction event

No one said that. Posters are talking about house prices going down if you get rezoned from WJ to Woodward.

WJ and Woodward couldn’t be closer to each other. They’ll bus equal number of DCC schools to each of WJ and Woodward. They’re going to be identical, and high performing, schools.

Both will be lower performing school than current WJ and it will have impact on house price.

Classy.

So we've come to this:

I am not the PP, but do you find anything factually wrong here? OP was worried about house prices going down in WJ due to boundary change and I do't see how previous comments being off target.

It's not factually wrong, but it's ethically wrong, to lament that the addition of more children of color to your school is going to bring down your investments.

People are dropping dog whistles like "college readiness" will go down, scores will go down. But they know full well this is about bringing more lower income Hispanic and black kids into their school.

It may be the case of you looking from certain angle. I see it as OP being worried about house prices and if you think his concerns are wrong then counter it. I didn't see OP getting worried about race of kids joining Woodward/WJ. A genuine concerns shouldn't be brushed aside due to assumptions.

I am not the PP and I won't be concerned about race of kids attending my kid's school, but I will be surely concerned about house prices going down.

Ok then, why do you think house prices will go down? Is it about test scores and GreatSchools ratings? Then yes, actually that is about race. Einstein doesn't have worse teachers or facilities or principal than WJ. It has lower test scores for one reason only and that's demographics. That is the only possible reason why people could fear their home prices going down.

Let me ask you a simple question.

Do you think that test scores going down will have zero impact on house prices? You may be concerned about why test scores are down and all that, but many may not be care why it's going down. They simply care about it's going down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:as if being zoned to Woodward is comparable to a mass extinction event

No one said that. Posters are talking about house prices going down if you get rezoned from WJ to Woodward.

WJ and Woodward couldn’t be closer to each other. They’ll bus equal number of DCC schools to each of WJ and Woodward. They’re going to be identical, and high performing, schools.

Both will be lower performing school than current WJ and it will have impact on house price.

WJ 2.0 will likely pull from current BCC, Whitman, or Churchill boundaries. Makes sense if you look at current boundaries...

Why wouldn’t Woodward and WJ pull from the same boundaries? The schools are a mile down the road from each other. I doubt MCPS will create one elite majority white/Asian school and one solid but diverse one.

Woodward will have around 2700 seats and is situated between Einstein, WJ, and B-CC. The first two schools will be around 800 over capacity around the time that it opens.

It will also likely have a magnet that takes around 400 seats.

It doesn't take a genius to imagine how this will play out, but I can't imagine it will have much if any impact on Whitman or Churchill.

You realize WJ is surrounded by the same schools as the future Woodward, right?

Not about proximity it is about clusters. You can put a cluster of peaches next to a cluster of lemons, one is sweet and the other isn’t. It also takes a lot of sugar programs (magnet, cap, IB what have you) to make lemon clusters palatable to middle class parents. That is just the way it is.

WJ is already the nicer Wootton or the poor mans Churchill. There is nothing really desirable east of it and if they fragment the few nice neighborhoods away from Einstein (further sinking it) and a few nice neighborhoods from WJ to create a new W, the social justice contingent of the county will revolt. The only people would win in that scenario would be the families who get to leave Einstein, they are going to win no mater how it shakes out so there simply isn’t enough political juice in it for the county not to make Woodward into a western DCC compromise to placate the DCC while annoying every single home moved out of the WJ zone. But that won’t bother the county too much as the WJ parents will just come off as bitter segregationists across the media even if some of their points have merits. Most will just hope for the best and a little grandfathering.

There really isn’t another way it could play out.

This is basically it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find some posts here amusing.

Some one is making a point that low test scores are going to bring price down.

Other poster then starts accusing that hey you are not concerned about house prices, you are concerned about demography.

There’s also a weird phenomenon where people are assuming both that NAM = poor test score (and thus attendant issues like discipline problems and slow pace of classroom instruction) but also that nobody is allowed to care about poor test scores or if they do they are a bad person.

It’s not like I’d be thrilled with some rural school district in an all white impoverished mining town. I just don’t want my kids to go to a poor performing school period. But your efforts to convince me I shouldn’t care about poor school performance haven’t worked, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find some posts here amusing.

Some one is making a point that low test scores are going to bring price down.

Other poster then starts accusing that hey you are not concerned about house prices, you are concerned about demography.

There’s also a weird phenomenon where people are assuming both that NAM = poor test score (and thus attendant issues like discipline problems and slow pace of classroom instruction) but also that nobody is allowed to care about poor test scores or if they do they are a bad person.

It’s not like I’d be thrilled with some rural school district in an all white impoverished mining town. I just don’t want my kids to go to a poor performing school period. But your efforts to convince me I shouldn’t care about poor school performance haven’t worked, sorry.

+1

Not the PP, but I think PP was sarcastic about some poster trying to make it about race when OP was about poor test score bringing house prices down.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, housing prices are indeed tied to schools. False perceptions or not, people with kids buy based on schools.

Years ago, you didn't see school ratings connected to homes, as the gap wasn't as prevalent and people supported their community schools. Now, however, you enter a site like Redfin, Zillow or Estately, and you'll see school ratings. If you're not familiar with the area, you'll search for homes in communities with high ratings.

Look at 20882, which is Laytonsville/G-burg. There are some very large homes zoned for 2+ acres that are selling in the $600s, which is low considering square footage and lot size.

Unless you have big bucks for private, school reputations are a major factor in determining home prices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Predicted future high school distributions:

WJ/Woodward: Mixture of current WJ plus two DCC elementary school areas and maybe one Whitman school (perhaps Bradley Hills). Will create two very good schools, but not Whitman level.
BCC: Bethesda Elementary, the three Chevy Chase elementaries (CC, NCC, and RCF) and probably Somerset; no appreciable change in test scores from the change (ie remains an extremely strong school, but with some lower scoring demographics included).
Whitman: add Westbrook and maybe Somerset from BCC and cede Bradley Hills to WJ/Woodward. No other changes; cements status as highest scoring MoCo district.
Churchill: no change

I think this is probably right. The only question I have is whether the county will find a way to inject a little diversity into Whitman along the way. I don't see an obvious way to do that, but it does seem to go against what the BoE has been all about to embark on a major change to the HS in and around Bethesda while making the richest, white-est HS even wealthier and whiter than ever while the others (BCC, WJ, and Woodward) include some racial/ethnic/SES diversity.

Diversity will come to Whitman with the Westbard development.

MoCo has to stop trying to bus people into diverse schools and to just have policies to encourage more diversity in housing instead so that people of different income levels live in the same community. Instead they are building teardown McMansion after teardowns McMansion in Bethesda. Why not some subdividing lots with smaller houses too? What about duplexes? The 6000 square foot McMansions take up the entire lot and house four people and a fancy purebred dog max in a space that could house 10-20 people instead.

That will eventually need to happen

It needs to happen NOW. Or yesterday. We have no leadership in this county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Predicted future high school distributions:

WJ/Woodward: Mixture of current WJ plus two DCC elementary school areas and maybe one Whitman school (perhaps Bradley Hills). Will create two very good schools, but not Whitman level.
BCC: Bethesda Elementary, the three Chevy Chase elementaries (CC, NCC, and RCF) and probably Somerset; no appreciable change in test scores from the change (ie remains an extremely strong school, but with some lower scoring demographics included).
Whitman: add Westbrook and maybe Somerset from BCC and cede Bradley Hills to WJ/Woodward. No other changes; cements status as highest scoring MoCo district.
Churchill: no change

I think this is probably right. The only question I have is whether the county will find a way to inject a little diversity into Whitman along the way. I don't see an obvious way to do that, but it does seem to go against what the BoE has been all about to embark on a major change to the HS in and around Bethesda while making the richest, white-est HS even wealthier and whiter than ever while the others (BCC, WJ, and Woodward) include some racial/ethnic/SES diversity.

Whitman at the end of the day is in a rich white area. Being blocked off by the river and DC while surrounded by other rich white areas limits what can be done. They will get a token amount of tokens when Westbard is developed.

Not to mention they just made Westland richer and whiter which is in the Whitman district despite being a BCC middle school. That is sort of the trend west of Wisconsin. As the east is changing faster than the county can adapt, old forces are bunkering down. It will be the last area to change.

Chevy Chase isn’t going to change either, and I’d assume the part of Silver Spring near SS metro becomes whiter. The rest of the county probably does follow your prediction.

Silver spring would have a very long way to go, not likely. Woodside def mostly white, the rest not so much. Not Georgia, not Fenton, not Sligo, not 16th st, not Wayne, not even close on Thayer or flower.

Wait have you ever been to silver spring?

Silver spring will never we white, in fact it is trending the in complete opposite direction. What it has is a few mostly white neighborhoods that trick a few people into thinking they live in a different sort of area with their bubble glasses on

Gentrification will come to Silver Spring. There are nice amenities there like public transportation, Rec centers, pools and shopping. Young people can’t afford the housing in Potomac or Bethesda and many would not choose to live in a huge tacky sun blocking McMansion with no yard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, housing prices are indeed tied to schools. False perceptions or not, people with kids buy based on schools.

Years ago, you didn't see school ratings connected to homes, as the gap wasn't as prevalent and people supported their community schools. Now, however, you enter a site like Redfin, Zillow or Estately, and you'll see school ratings. If you're not familiar with the area, you'll search for homes in communities with high ratings.

Look at 20882, which is Laytonsville/G-burg. There are some very large homes zoned for 2+ acres that are selling in the $600s, which is low considering square footage and lot size.

Unless you have big bucks for private, school reputations are a major factor in determining home prices.

+1

House prices are always tied to school's ratings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, housing prices are indeed tied to schools. False perceptions or not, people with kids buy based on schools.

Years ago, you didn't see school ratings connected to homes, as the gap wasn't as prevalent and people supported their community schools. Now, however, you enter a site like Redfin, Zillow or Estately, and you'll see school ratings. If you're not familiar with the area, you'll search for homes in communities with high ratings.

Look at 20882, which is Laytonsville/G-burg. There are some very large homes zoned for 2+ acres that are selling in the $600s, which is low considering square footage and lot size.

Unless you have big bucks for private, school reputations are a major factor in determining home prices.

School rating methodology is changing. Current methods are highly flawed.

+1

House prices are always tied to school's ratings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Predicted future high school distributions:

WJ/Woodward: Mixture of current WJ plus two DCC elementary school areas and maybe one Whitman school (perhaps Bradley Hills). Will create two very good schools, but not Whitman level.
BCC: Bethesda Elementary, the three Chevy Chase elementaries (CC, NCC, and RCF) and probably Somerset; no appreciable change in test scores from the change (ie remains an extremely strong school, but with some lower scoring demographics included).
Whitman: add Westbrook and maybe Somerset from BCC and cede Bradley Hills to WJ/Woodward. No other changes; cements status as highest scoring MoCo district.
Churchill: no change

I think this is probably right. The only question I have is whether the county will find a way to inject a little diversity into Whitman along the way. I don't see an obvious way to do that, but it does seem to go against what the BoE has been all about to embark on a major change to the HS in and around Bethesda while making the richest, white-est HS even wealthier and whiter than ever while the others (BCC, WJ, and Woodward) include some racial/ethnic/SES diversity.

Diversity will come to Whitman with the Westbard development.

MoCo has to stop trying to bus people into diverse schools and to just have policies to encourage more diversity in housing instead so that people of different income levels live in the same community. Instead they are building teardown McMansion after teardowns McMansion in Bethesda. Why not some subdividing lots with smaller houses too? What about duplexes? The 6000 square foot McMansions take up the entire lot and house four people and a fancy purebred dog max in a space that could house 10-20 people instead.

That will eventually need to happen

It needs to happen NOW. Or yesterday. We have no leadership in this county.

For decades the county built low-income projects up North or East. I agree it's time they show leadership and place all future projects in the Western close-in areas to ensure there is an equitable FARMS distribution @W's.