To you, what's the bottom of the "elite" colleges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UChicago and Northwestern are fine colleges but they're no kid's first choice, which by definition does NOT make them elite. If you offered 12th graders the choice between: Northwestern, UChicago, Columbia or Penn. 99% would choose Penn or Columbia. Therefore, not elite -- and their flyover geography certainly doesn't help.

Hm. Plenty of kids have UChicago and Northwestern as their first choice schools. You might have an argument with Columbia, but Penn? Really? That school has very little clout outside of the Northeast and among USNWR-obsessed teens and their parents. And Chicago >>>>> Philly.

All great schools, though. What do you hope to gain by lying or trying to fabricate the truth?

+1. It’s hilarious, because absolutely nothing hinges on the views expressed by any of the would-be gatekeepers or self-appointed experts on this thread. Absolutely nada.

[Anonymous]

The hypothetical is not the same as applying early. Applying early to one of the Illinois colleges is a STRATEGY. That is to say fringe Ivy kids know they have far better odds with a binding app to Northwestern or UChicago than they do rolling the dice on an Ivy.

The hypothetical was if you offer 12th graders the choice between going to Penn, Columbia, Northwestern or Chicago — we all know very few would choose one of the non-Ivy flyover state colleges.

Facts make you boosters uncomfortable, so much so you twist binding apps into pure “first choice.” It’s all so desperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UChicago and Northwestern are fine colleges but they're no kid's first choice, which by definition does NOT make them elite. If you offered 12th graders the choice between: Northwestern, UChicago, Columbia or Penn. 99% would choose Penn or Columbia. Therefore, not elite -- and their flyover geography certainly doesn't help.

Hm. Plenty of kids have UChicago and Northwestern as their first choice schools. You might have an argument with Columbia, but Penn? Really? That school has very little clout outside of the Northeast and among USNWR-obsessed teens and their parents. And Chicago >>>>> Philly.

All great schools, though. What do you hope to gain by lying or trying to fabricate the truth?

+1. It’s hilarious, because absolutely nothing hinges on the views expressed by any of the would-be gatekeepers or self-appointed experts on this thread. Absolutely nada.

It’s a safety issue. Doesn’t matter how elite a university is. If you’re going there to die or be assaulted, everything becomes meaningless.

And the boosters callousness, it’s on an elite level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The hypothetical is not the same as applying early. Applying early to one of the Illinois colleges is a STRATEGY. That is to say fringe Ivy kids know they have far better odds with a binding app to Northwestern or UChicago than they do rolling the dice on an Ivy.

The hypothetical was if you offer 12th graders the choice between going to Penn, Columbia, Northwestern or Chicago — we all know very few would choose one of the non-Ivy flyover state colleges.

Facts make you boosters uncomfortable, so much so you twist binding apps into pure “first choice.” It’s all so desperate.

I can’t imagine how dense one must be to double down on this nonsense. So many schools are preferred by many kids to both Penn and Columbia. Talk about leading with your chin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The hypothetical is not the same as applying early. Applying early to one of the Illinois colleges is a STRATEGY. That is to say fringe Ivy kids know they have far better odds with a binding app to Northwestern or UChicago than they do rolling the dice on an Ivy.

The hypothetical was if you offer 12th graders the choice between going to Penn, Columbia, Northwestern or Chicago — we all know very few would choose one of the non-Ivy flyover state colleges.

Facts make you boosters uncomfortable, so much so you twist binding apps into pure “first choice.” It’s all so desperate.

I can’t imagine how dense one must be to double down on this nonsense. So many schools are preferred by many kids to both Penn and Columbia. Talk about leading with your chin.

Agreed. Very weird. I know plenty of very smart kids who applied to either of the two schools for RD and chose them over Ivies and other great schools. I mean, has this person ever even spoken to a high school student? Plenty of non-Ivies, including UC and NU, are very popular with many top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UChicago and Northwestern are fine colleges but they're no kid's first choice, which by definition does NOT make them elite. If you offered 12th graders the choice between: Northwestern, UChicago, Columbia or Penn. 99% would choose Penn or Columbia. Therefore, not elite -- and their flyover geography certainly doesn't help.

Hm. Plenty of kids have UChicago and Northwestern as their first choice schools. You might have an argument with Columbia, but Penn? Really? That school has very little clout outside of the Northeast and among USNWR-obsessed teens and their parents. And Chicago >>>>> Philly.

All great schools, though. What do you hope to gain by lying or trying to fabricate the truth?

Np here, and IKR? Bashing on Chicago by bringing up a city in Pennsylvania is, well, strange. Nothing wrong with Philly. Just saying, it's weird to hold it out as more cosmopolitan than Chicago!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Yale/Stanford/MIT
Princeton/Columbia
Chicago/Penn
Duke/Northwestern

^That’s the definitive T10 in my mind. Caltech is a fantastic school but way too small and way too niche, and not socially elite.

This really does feel like the most sensible list. +1 (or +9, whatever we're at)

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand this thread. The tag line asked readers how THEY define elite colleges, and then it turned into 30+ pages of one or several posters trying to railroad everyone into the same definition and set of schools that are essentially the USNWR Top 10. WTF? Did we need that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this thread. The tag line asked readers how THEY define elite colleges, and then it turned into 30+ pages of one or several posters trying to railroad everyone into the same definition and set of schools that are essentially the USNWR Top 10. WTF? Did we need that?

How do you define elite colleges?

[Anonymous]

Harvard/Yale/Stanford/MIT/Princeton
Columbia/Penn/Brown/Dartmouth
Cornell/Duke
*gap*
Chicago/Northwestern/Notre Dame

You non-Catholics can make fun of Notre Dame all you want but it's full of Catholic prep school valedictorians who had zero interest in applying to any Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Harvard/Yale/Stanford/MIT/Princeton
Columbia/Penn/Brown/Dartmouth
Cornell/Duke
*gap*
Chicago/Northwestern/Notre Dame

You non-Catholics can make fun of Notre Dame all you want but it's full of Catholic prep school valedictorians who had zero interest in applying to any Ivies.

Hahahaha

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this thread. The tag line asked readers how THEY define elite colleges, and then it turned into 30+ pages of one or several posters trying to railroad everyone into the same definition and set of schools that are essentially the USNWR Top 10. WTF? Did we need that?

How do you define elite colleges?

This is rhetorical, right? You’re probably the same poster that’s been doing the railroading. Ride on, brother!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand this thread. The tag line asked readers how THEY define elite colleges, and then it turned into 30+ pages of one or several posters trying to railroad everyone into the same definition and set of schools that are essentially the USNWR Top 10. WTF? Did we need that?

How do you define elite colleges?

This is rhetorical, right? You’re probably the same poster that’s been doing the railroading. Ride on, brother!

No and no. Genuine question, but sure, you do you then.

[Anonymous]

This question is a lot like asking someone their definition of rich. It’s both a relative and absolute thing. For the average person, a NW of $1+ million may be rich, yet it is “only” the 90th percentile. The Top 1% in NW is around $10 million. Even still, it’s mostly the 600+ billionaires that grab the headlines. And, within the billionaires, there are differences. Before Musk hit it big, Bezos, Buffet, and Gates (BBG) were a separate club. In sum, perceptions of rich depend on one’s awareness and life opportunities, but there are also the cold facts that define exclusivity.

Now, apply that same logic to colleges. Each year, about 5 million kids start a four-year school. The top 1% or 99th percentile, includes 50k kids. If the average freshman class at an upper-tier school is 2000, that’s 25 schools or the Top 25. In the analogy to “what is rich,” these kids are very rich. However, the Top 0.1% of kids, or 5000, go to the Top 3 schools. Traditionally, the well-educated considered those to be HPY. But, like BBG, there’s been one extra-special club, which is Harvard. As in wealth, distinctions other than these are mostly noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This question is a lot like asking someone their definition of rich. It’s both a relative and absolute thing. For the average person, a NW of $1+ million may be rich, yet it is “only” the 90th percentile. The Top 1% in NW is around $10 million. Even still, it’s mostly the 600+ billionaires that grab the headlines. And, within the billionaires, there are differences. Before Musk hit it big, Bezos, Buffet, and Gates (BBG) were a separate club. In sum, perceptions of rich depend on one’s awareness and life opportunities, but there are also the cold facts that define exclusivity.

Now, apply that same logic to colleges. Each year, about 5 million kids start a four-year school. The top 1% or 99th percentile, includes 50k kids. If the average freshman class at an upper-tier school is 2000, that’s 25 schools or the Top 25. In the analogy to “what is rich,” these kids are very rich. However, the Top 0.1% of kids, or 5000, go to the Top 3 schools. Traditionally, the well-educated considered those to be HPY. But, like BBG, there’s been one extra-special club, which is Harvard. As in wealth, distinctions other than these are mostly noise.

I agree broadly with your point, but I think it's become clear in the last several decades that entrance into HYPS is not a merit-driven enterprise. On top of the randomness, there are so many other extraneous details and variables that affect admissions, such as race, legacy, wealth, donor status, etc. It's really become more of a lottery at this point and not exactly a measure of merit/performance/smarts alone.