Bad News for Test Prep Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that the scores of these AAP identification tests are affected when kids have been practicing with materials that replicate past tests. Some people know this and have decided to make some money off this fact. The more they can convince young parents that:
a: a child's intelligence is dependent on how many of this business's worksheets the child does and,
b: that there is no good education available in FCPS except in AAP and,
c: the best way to get a child into AAP is to use our services/products,
the more money they will make.

They do not want the school to know that kids have been prepped, because they know that the scores would then be taken less seriously. It would certainly be bad for business for the schools to know which second graders have been doing practice questions from old tests at camps or classes or clubs or just at home with a parent. Even the idea that teachers might be asking kids at school if they have seen questions like these before could be bad for business. Parents may hesitate to buy into test prep programs or materials if they hear that the schools might not use test results from kids who say they have seen questions like this before.

Most of these businesses sell other types of tutoring and test prep so they will not lose their shirts if FCPS were to stop using these tests or drop the AAP.
But it would eat into their profits to a certain extent.

It's funny that, in a thread about identification tests for a program for elementary and middle school students, there have been multiple posts about tests taken by high school students. FCPS has had to change the identification tests because of one kind of prepping that is inappropriate for that particular test, which has a different function than the SATs/ACTs.
But still, post after post filled with bromides about the wonders of preparation appears, seemingly in hopes that parents will conflate SAT/ACT preparation with prepping for these first and second grade tests. As though to say, "If it is good for the SATs/ACTs, than it must be good for these tests, too!"

So true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the ACT is a test of high school subject matter. There is less need for prep courses for it because it does not use the tricky questions that the SAT uses.

And in terms of grades, we are discussing FCPS schools here, which do not give out grades like candy. Admissions officers know the reputation of the schools here and know that when the guidance counselor has checked the "most rigorous coursework" box, a high standard has been required for the grades on the transcript.

Is there a difference between the rigor at TJ, an AP class, an IB class, an honors class or a regular class in FCPS?

What is the difference in rigor?

Do you think college admission's officers at UVA and Harvard can tell the difference?

Which programs do the admission officers want to see the high grades? Which students (by program) may have the competitive advantage?

Have you had a child go through the college application process yet? If you had, you would realize that admissions officers spend a lot of time learning about the many high schools in their assigned region. FCPS schools are very well known and top schools are familiar with the various programs offered here.
Call the admissions office of a school that interests you and ask your questions. They understand challenge and know how to see it in a transcript.

FCPS is kinda lose-lose in this regard. Take great schools like Oakton or Madison and they bare still only getting 8-10% of their graduating class into UVa.

[Anonymous]

Have you had a child go through the college application process yet? If you had, you would realize that admissions officers spend a lot of time learning about the many high schools in their assigned region. FCPS schools are very well known and top schools are familiar with the various programs offered here.
Call the admissions office of a school that interests you and ask your questions. They understand challenge and know how to see it in a transcript.

Yes, and I interview for a top Ivy. Schools, programs and courses are not all the same in FCPS. Sorry to burst your bubble. We know this. I understand why parents and their kids shoot for AAP programs early in their child's educational journey. It's a wise and rational strategy. It's also ok if this is not your cup of tea.

[Anonymous]

Have you had a child go through the college application process yet? If you had, you would realize that admissions officers spend a lot of time learning about the many high schools in their assigned region. FCPS schools are very well known and top schools are familiar with the various programs offered here.
Call the admissions office of a school that interests you and ask your questions. They understand challenge and know how to see it in a transcript.

As a regional interviewer for a top Ivy (last decade) I may not know as much as you about colleges and admission to colleges but if you have additional questions about the process or my lack of credentials please feel free to share your humor.

[Anonymous]

The post does not say that all programs are alike in FCPS. It says that admissions officers are familiar with the programs. That means they understand the differences in the programs. Lots of alums do interviews for their schools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily know every single thing that goes on in the admissions office.

[Anonymous]

The post does not say that all programs are alike in FCPS. It says that admissions officers are familiar with the programs. That means they understand the differences in the programs. Lots of alums do interviews for their schools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily know every single thing that goes on in the admissions office.

I would bet these longstanding regional interviewers know a hell of a lot more about the process than you. High school students looking to highly selective colleges would probably put their faith with the former than the latter. This is rational don't you think?

[Anonymous]

I would advise any 11th grader with high college aspirations (as any of my own children) to prepare and review for the SAT/ACT (like any other school test or exam). For many, this prep may simply entail only taking sample tests under test conditions from an SAT review book from the Fairfax County public library. All athletes [public speakers and musicians] prepare and warm up for their events no matter how gifted, simply ask Peyton.

This is not cheating. That's an irrationale response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The post does not say that all programs are alike in FCPS. It says that admissions officers are familiar with the programs. That means they understand the differences in the programs. Lots of alums do interviews for their schools, but that doesn't mean they necessarily know every single thing that goes on in the admissions office.

I would bet these longstanding regional interviewers know a hell of a lot more about the process than you. High school students looking to highly selective colleges would probably put their faith with the former than the latter. This is rational don't you think?

Hard to say, because you have no idea what my background on this subject is.

Alum interviewers talk to applicants and then prepare a report that they send to the college admissions office. That is the extent of their input into the admissions process. The admissions office then can use that input as they see fit. The alum interviewer is not making admissions decisions. The school hopes that the alum interviewer will act as an ambassador for the school, answering questions the student might have and giving the student some insight into the school and what it is like to be a student there.

[Anonymous]

Hard to say, because you have no idea what my background on this subject is.

Alum interviewers talk to applicants and then prepare a report that they send to the college admissions office. That is the extent of their input into the admissions process. The admissions office then can use that input as they see fit. The alum interviewer is not making admissions decisions. The school hopes that the alum interviewer will act as an ambassador for the school, answering questions the student might have and giving the student some insight into the school and what it is like to be a student there.

Thanks for the talking points.

At least you are finally beginning to understand it does matter to Colleges that students take challenging and rigorous courses. Participating in AAP with like peers is simply one step towards staying on in a track towards this ultimate downstream outcome. Of course, this is no guarantee but for many it is far preferable to begin the process of a challenging curriculum early in the educational process. That's my preference for my own children so I can understand why other parents would prefer the same for their children and begin teach early in life the importance of working hard in school.

[Anonymous]

[quote]Hard to say, because you have no idea what my background on this subject is.

Alum interviewers talk to applicants and then prepare a report that they send to the college admissions office. That is the extent of their input into the admissions process. The admissions office then can use that input as they see fit. The alum interviewer is not making admissions decisions. The school hopes that the alum interviewer will act as an ambassador for the school, answering questions the student might have and giving the student some insight into the school and what it is like to be a student there.

It is not hard to say. On the contrary it is blatantly obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, the ACT is a test of high school subject matter. There is less need for prep courses for it because it does not use the tricky questions that the SAT uses.

And in terms of grades, we are discussing FCPS schools here, which do not give out grades like candy. Admissions officers know the reputation of the schools here and know that when the guidance counselor has checked the "most rigorous coursework" box, a high standard has been required for the grades on the transcript.

Is there a difference between the rigor at TJ, an AP class, an IB class, an honors class or a regular class in FCPS?

What is the difference in rigor?

Do you think college admission's officers at UVA and Harvard can tell the difference?

Which programs do the admission officers want to see the high grades? Which students (by program) may have the competitive advantage?

Have you had a child go through the college application process yet? If you had, you would realize that admissions officers spend a lot of time learning about the many high schools in their assigned region. FCPS schools are very well known and top schools are familiar with the various programs offered here.
Call the admissions office of a school that interests you and ask your questions. They understand challenge and know how to see it in a transcript.

Yes: if we're talking about high school classes, not elementary or middle school! No one gives a rat's ass what classes a student took before high school. Admissions counselors will laugh at you if you try to mention that your child was in AAP during elem/middle school. The only classes that count are honors and AP/IB classes, in high school. And these classes, thankfully, are open to all. How on earth did this thread go from discussing parents who prep their 1st and 2nd graders for the NNAT or CogAt, to discussion of SAT or ACT prep? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

[Anonymous]

The reality is ES does not mater beyond preparing the kid for MS. MS does not matter, except for HS placement. HS does not matter once you start college....College does not matter once you work or go to grad school.

The flip side is, in all of these stages, there are on-ramps. Honors MS prepares you for HS. And Non honors, well, many colleges do not care about AP classes.

In college, there are avenues to get in even from a GED. Community colleges in Virginia will get you into the many state schools with a 3.0. So, you can drop out of HS, get a GED, go to NOVA for two years, and transfer to Virginia Tech.

From Virginia Tech, you can go to MIT for grad school. No one will care that you have a GED.

[Anonymous]

Yes: if we're talking about high school classes, not elementary or middle school! No one gives a rat's ass what classes a student took before high school. Admissions counselors will laugh at you if you try to mention that your child was in AAP during elem/middle school. The only classes that count are honors and AP/IB classes, in high school. And these classes, thankfully, are open to all. How on earth did this thread go from discussing parents who prep their 1st and 2nd graders for the NNAT or CogAt, to discussion of SAT or ACT prep? One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

In college, there are avenues to get in even from a GED. Community colleges in Virginia will get you into the many state schools with a 3.0. So, you can drop out of HS, get a GED, go to NOVA for two years, and transfer to Virginia Tech.

From Virginia Tech, you can go to MIT for grad school. No one will care that you have a GED.

Peyton here again. Let's connect the dots for the Virginians. It seems sports may be all they understand -- lacrosse and soccer.

Everyone knows travel team soccer for elementary school kids has no bearing on whether your child will be accepted at a Division 1 soccer program of play Pro soccer. But, can any rationale person deny kids who are challenged early in their athletic career (travel team soccer or NCAP/RMSC club swimming) with more rigorous workouts and teammates may just have an edge on getting successfully recruited by Division 1 coaches/teams, the Olympics and pro sports? Is this concept a difficult one to bridge (at 7 years old) or grasp for DCUMMIES?

Now, let's transition to music or academic and intellectual pursuits. Does it not stand to reason kids who are challenged early in environments like AAP, HGC, magnet programs, IB, AP, on so forth will just as likely be successfully recruited to MIT, UVA and Harvard--like athletes with longstanding training in challenging environments?

I suppose there's a reason why some are cut out for MIT/Harvard/Amherst. Some individuals have the capacity to think and others ... well are make dumb statements in the above quotes.

What pro team cares about the traveling team you played on in middle school and what medical school cares that you attended TJ? But, for the our local dummies, without the challenge of TJ or that traveling team in middle school you may likely have ended up at Podunk university with a basket weaving degree or playing weekend lacrosse with pot bellied bros.

[Anonymous]

NP: some are not savvy with puzzles or connecting dots. they sorely need prep

[Anonymous]

In college, there are avenues to get in even from a GED. Community colleges in Virginia will get you into the many state schools with a 3.0. So, you can drop out of HS, get a GED, go to NOVA for two years, and transfer to Virginia Tech.

From Virginia Tech, you can go to MIT for grad school. No one will care that you have a GED.

Did you inherit this brilliant advice from the gene pool. What's wrong with going directly to MIT without spending time in jail?