Diversity v. "Best" schools

[Anonymous]

The other thread really has me thinking. There are at least a few posters who seem to eschew their very good (but white/upper-class) schools in favor of schools with more "diversity".

I'm sure this is going to kick up a storm about race/social status... but I'm really wondering how common this is?

In a perfect world, I'd like to think we'd all send our kids to the best school that was also wonderfully diverse... but the reality is that IN GENERAL (and you can look on the Fairfax County web page if you don't beleive me), that there is a correlation between high minority populations and lower test scores. At least in this area.

(I'm just waiting for someone to call me a racist bigot for that statement, but its the reality). As a parent who recently did a hard core search for schools, I looked at minority rates, I looked at test scores, I looked at the number of kids in ESL, I even looked at the number of kids on the subsidized lunch program. I took it all into consideration.

Do I want my kid to go to an all white school? Heck no.
Do I want my kid to go to a school where everyone's parents make $200K a year? No.

But I do want my kid to go to the "best" school for him... and it its 95% white and upper class, so be it.

And please, just to fend off the attacks before they start... I DO care about diversity... but I think there are other ways to get it, and I don't want to sacrifice education just for the sake of having kids of other color in his class.

[Anonymous]

The correllation you speak of -- it's in regard to public schools rather than private, right? In which case, the cause/effect tie may be poor funding for schools in lower income areas, higher student/teacher ratios, all sorts of other "neighborhood" factors that are an unfortunate reality in a society that remains segregated in many respects. Private schools that charge a ton in tuition can, like good colleges, acheive diversity including economic diversity through strong aid programs but still pull in families for whom education is a priority, and they can focus on academics at the same time. Not all of them do of course but it's possible. Are you seeing correllations in private schools between diversity and poor test scores?

[Anonymous]

Without getting in your facts, all I can say is that you have just given a very good argument for why some parents in good school districts choose private schools. As you illustrated with your example (not saying it is right or that your conclusions are fee from bias), in this neck of the woods the only way to get "best" and "diverse" is to go the private school route. BTW, not ever kid in private school has parents who make $200K a year - ever heard of financial aid? Also most of the "best" public schools are in areas that are solid middle/upper class so your $200K income cutoff seems somewhat suspect. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going to an all white school - if you are white - your children will turn out just fine.

BTW, it interesting that your definition of "diversity" seems to be limited to race/ethniticity.

[Anonymous]

I think this is an excellent question and I'm curious to hear others' responses. We will be facing a similar decision in the near future about sending to Spanish Immersion over the much better rated, but not diverse, elementary school in our neighborhood (which we spent a small fortune, for our standards, to get into because of the "good schools"). I will say that my understanding is that in the "lower" performing schools, if you separate out the test score by english proficiency or other factors, kids perform remarkably the same as in the "higher" performing schools. In other words, if your child is likely to excel, he or she will do so in either school. But it's a great question and I'd love to hear from others.

[Anonymous]

This is an interesting topic, I agree!

Both my spouse and I (being from different countries and having lived in many different countries) actually believe that there is an inherent educational value to diversity. Whether it is being exposed to other cultures/languages/religions/sexual orientations/etc. or learning to get along with those from other backgrounds (and the list goes on), it is something we value very highly and actually do not see it as separate from the actual education our children receive.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Wait just a second. Please don't think that you understand my complete thoughts on this matter based on some quick numbers (e.g. $200K) I threw out in a post. I'm trying to get that the crux of the topic without getting into 100 different arguments over what is "upper class" v. "middle class". Or the side issue of "what is true diversity".

For the record, I think "diversity" encompasses more than just race/ethnicity. Socio-economic diversity it just as important. There are lots of other types of diversity but I just don't feel like listing them all.

My post is intended to merely spark a discussion (hopefully civil) of how high a priority "diversity" (whatever that means to any individual) is in picking a school --- especially given the realities of the world in which we live.

You've made a good point that perhaps private schools have breached the chasm the best... or at least some of them.

[Anonymous]

I agree with 14:33 that exposing children to diverse backgrounds is very educational... but I think what the OP is getting at is this:

If your choice is to send your child to (and I'm just picking numbers/race for the sake of argument)

A) a school with 30% minority children, and lower test scores or
B) a school with 5% minority children, and higher test scores

What would you choose and why? Obviously it would depend on how much higher the test scores were... but lets say they were "considerably" higher?

[Anonymous]

For all the talk of people valuing diversity around here, I have found in my limited experience that when it really comes down to it, most of the schools people consider the "best" around here are the ones with the least diversity. For example, Langley consistently comes up as one of the "best" schools in the area and yes, it does have high test scores. But is it really the best school, or is it just benefiting from a student body where most of the students come from middle-upper class, well educated families? I for one don't know if I would want my child to go to Langley, because I think there would be enormous pressure there to succeed as well as pressure to have to right clothes, right car, etc. I am a teacher and I get frustrated from these "best school" postings because I feel like again and again, all people are looking at are test scores to make their decisions. Yes, that is an indicator of the quality of the school, but it is just ONE indicator of many. People really need to look at their children and figure out what would be the best fit for them - not just assume that the school with the highest test scores is the right one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My post is intended to merely spark a discussion (hopefully civil) of how high a priority "diversity" (whatever that means to any individual) is in picking a school --- especially given the realities of the world in which we live.

From what I have seen in this area, I don't think that having a lot of diversity is a priority in choosing a school around here at all. Consistently in these discussions about the best schools, the ones people consider the best are not diverse at all.

[Anonymous]

Going to an all-white upper class school can be torture. Everyone was the same, dressed the same, listened to the same music. It was horrible. I hated every second of my middle and high school years. The best years were elementary (private school very diverse) and college (also private and diverse - internationally).

There are many downsides to a homogenous environment. I would much rather send my kid to a school with lower test scores and more diversity - as long as the school is safe.

[Anonymous]

What would you choose and why? Obviously it would depend on how much higher the test scores were... but lets say they were "considerably" higher?

14:33 poster here. This is all just a mental exercise for me because there aren't many circumstances (though there are some) where I would consider private over public schools anyway. I should also say that I have a real problem with test scores as an indicator of a good school. But with that aside, I guess my answer is that if one of my children were really failing educationally at a school then I would find a better fit for him/her regardless of the diversity issue. Or if I felt that some key component of their education was being left out, I would find a better alternative. Overall though I'm one of the lot that think that a good, challenging education can be found at our area public schools, and that I would have a real problem sending my children to a school that with little diversity, be it cultural, religious, socio-economic, etc.

[Anonymous]

Farmland elementary school in Montgomery County is very very diverse and excellent. We are very pleased

[Anonymous]

My child isn't even preschool age yet, and I don't have a background in education, but here is how I'm approaching it in my mind as I consider options down the road:

Academics -- will my child be adequately prepared for a strong college program? will he have opportunities to reach his potential or even stretch in any particular areas where he seems to excel? (that might be math, social science, the arts, no idea yet) I don't think test scores are necessarily the measure for either of those things.


Social -- will he be in an environment that will enable him to learn to navigate his world well as an adult? i.e., will he take as a matter of course that people of different backgrounds, strengths, opinions work and play together? are the values reflected in the school the ones that are personally relevant to me, and will be reinforced at home? (empathy, mature problem-solving, cooperation, integrity/self-regard)


Personal -- will he be happy there? is he at risk of being excluded (beyond normal kid stuff that all must learn to roll with)? will he enjoy learning?

Don't think I could predict the answers to the above without getting to know my son better, who is only 10 months. But these will likely be my criteria. "Diversity" contributes at a minimum to the last two categories and possibly to the first.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why I'm a horrible person because I will be sending my children to an almost white high school. Why do you care? It's not like I am not going to allow them to have minority friends or "poor" friends. We are "poor" McLean residents, but live in the Langley school district. I'm sure my kids won't wear the best clothes or drive the best car...but I know for sure they will be around a lot (not all) of children who are being pushed academically in school and at home. It's my responsibility to teach them diversity and about different cultures, not just the school. We travel around the world, have friends from different cultures, have hands-on culture studies...and my kids are only 5 and 2! I don't understand why I need to move to a less desirable area just so my kids can have a "diverse" education. It doesn't make sense to me. I think this is a personal choice.

And I don't think it's wrong to move to an area that is the most like you. What's wrong with having your kids attend an upper-middle class high school if that's who you are? I like myself. I don't have a probem if my kids grow up to be me...or as successful in college and the workplace as my husband and I have been.

I think I'm talking a lot and not saying much - I just don't get what the big deal is. Your kids are going to meet all kinds of diversity no matter what school you send them to.

[Anonymous]

PP: I don't think anybody is saying you are a horrible person. It is just a matter of what your top priorities are. For my family and I, it is of a higher priority to seek out more diversity. I'm not saying it is better, or worse, or it is what you should do. It is just a priority that our family holds dear! However, there are two points in your post where I think you are way off base:

1. I think it is a grossly unfair inference that one doesn't like oneself just because they value diversity. I just think that my children have a lot to learn from other cultures, backgrounds, etc. so that they don't end up with a myopic view of the world. It doesn't mean I am self-loathing.

2. I don't think you "meet diversity" (whatever that means) whatever you do. It goes a lot deeper than occasionally interacting with non-white, upper-middle class people.