Diversity v. "Best" schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Wait just a second. Please don't think that you understand my complete thoughts on this matter based on some quick numbers (e.g. $200K) I threw out in a post. I'm trying to get that the crux of the topic without getting into 100 different arguments over what is "upper class" v. "middle class". Or the side issue of "what is true diversity".

For the record, I think "diversity" encompasses more than just race/ethnicity. Socio-economic diversity it just as important. There are lots of other types of diversity but I just don't feel like listing them all.

My post is intended to merely spark a discussion (hopefully civil) of how high a priority "diversity" (whatever that means to any individual) is in picking a school --- especially given the realities of the world in which we live.

You've made a good point that perhaps private schools have breached the chasm the best... or at least some of them.

Just to be clear, are you asking how much the need for "diversity" factors into choosing one public school over another? If that is your question, then it seems a bit of an empty issue. Maybe Virginia is unique, but in DC parents do that have such a choice (unless they move), for example, based on my address once my DD is ready for school my only option for public will Janney. I hear it is very good, but based on the population of the surrounding nabes there is not much diversity. Because is an important factor to us, we will choose to go private. If for some reason we had to go public, we would likely move so that we could access a more diverse school district, so long as the district and schools was safe (coming from NYC out definition of safe is very loose) and had the amenities and services that we are looking for. I have not been in DC long enough to names places, but they must exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why I'm a horrible person because I will be sending my children to an almost white high school. Why do you care? It's not like I am not going to allow them to have minority friends or "poor" friends. We are "poor" McLean residents, but live in the Langley school district. I'm sure my kids won't wear the best clothes or drive the best car...but I know for sure they will be around a lot (not all) of children who are being pushed academically in school and at home. It's my responsibility to teach them diversity and about different cultures, not just the school. We travel around the world, have friends from different cultures, have hands-on culture studies...and my kids are only 5 and 2! I don't understand why I need to move to a less desirable area just so my kids can have a "diverse" education. It doesn't make sense to me. I think this is a personal choice.

And I don't think it's wrong to move to an area that is the most like you. What's wrong with having your kids attend an upper-middle class high school if that's who you are? I like myself. I don't have a probem if my kids grow up to be me...or as successful in college and the workplace as my husband and I have been.

I think I'm talking a lot and not saying much - I just don't get what the big deal is. Your kids are going to meet all kinds of diversity no matter what school you send them to.

The issue is not whether there is anything wrong with sending your kid to an all white school (the answer is clearly no), the issue (and OP can correct me) is whether parents who choose a school for diversity even though the school may not be the "best" (based on some criteria that we can all debate) is making the right decision.

[Anonymous]

I feel like there is a point being missed about the test scores vis-a-vis minority representation. A higher minority representation does sometimes correlate with lower test scores. BUT. That doesn't mean that your white middle/upper middle class child will get a lower score by going to that school. It just means that other kids may be getting lower scores.

[Anonymous]

I feel like there is a point being missed about the test scores vis-a-vis minority representation. A higher minority representation does sometimes correlate with lower test scores. BUT. That doesn't mean that your white middle/upper middle class child will get a lower score by going to that school. It just means that other kids may be getting lower scores.

I think OP was just giving a hypothetical, eg. would you trade a school with lower test scores for higher diversity. I don't think anyone is arguing that minority representation = lower test scores.

[Anonymous]

I have a long way to go before I have to help my daugher make this decision, but it is a decision that my daughter will ultimately make for herself.

When the time comes, depending on what is financially and geographically accessible to us, I will allow my daughter to tour/observe/spend time at the school. Wherever she feels more comfortable, is hopefully where she will be able to go.

A friend's child went to the diverse and respected Blair High School and hated it. He always felt that he didn't fit in and also felt uncomfortable with some of the students. He was miserable and probably would have had a better high school experience at a different school.

[Anonymous]

this is a great thread, thanks everyone.

My local DC elementary school is extraordinarily diverse by any definition you can think of (race, socio-economic, country of origin, religion, gay parent/straight parent/grandparent families ....

It puts up pretty good test numbers too, overall, altho DCPS stats demonstrate that some groups do markedly better than others.

But here's the deal (and it may be off-topic, sorry): I'm disinclined to send DC there because of 1. NCLB 2. related cut-back on arts/recess 3. curriculum geared toward bringing the school's lower-achieving students up to the level of the higher-achieving kids (ie, NCLB).

I've talked to several parents with kids at this school to form the above picture, it's not conjecture.

In sum, I think that some aspects of the diversity at this school fuel the testing-related issues that would keep me from sending DC there.

[Anonymous]

I am African American and grew up in this area. I am not offended by the OP question. But consider a few facts that have come out of solid extensive education research: White middle class children perform the same regardless of which school they attend (research has even shown that white children in public school do better that their counterparts in private school).
That said, a child exposed to racially diverse environment is less likely to have that shocked look on their face when they first encounter people of a different race. Most of my African American friends say that they can tell very early on if a white person feels comfortable around different races. There seems the be a squirmy discomfort.
Now exposing your child to different races has not been shown to make them less racist. What has been shown to cut down on racism is have had a close personal relationship with someone of a different race, like a friendship in school. That will not happen in an all white environment.
In the end, try to see your child as an adult professional, who does not have the burden of avoiding others because of fear...of the unknown.

[Anonymous]

Now exposing your child to different races has not been shown to make them less racist. What has been shown to cut down on racism is have had a close personal relationship with someone of a different race, like a friendship in school. That will not happen in an all white environment.

I think this is really well said and an important point.

[Anonymous]

I'm the 15:10 poster and that was exactly where I was going with stating a goal of "will he be in an environment that will enable him to learn to navigate his world well as an adult? i.e., will he take as a matter of course that people of different backgrounds, strengths, opinions work and play together?" It's profoundly important and I'm glad 17:31 framed it so nicely in the context of schooling, where our kids will form significant relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Now exposing your child to different races has not been shown to make them less racist. What has been shown to cut down on racism is have had a close personal relationship with someone of a different race, like a friendship in school. That will not happen in an all white environment.

I think this is really well said and an important point.

I've never had a close personal relationship with someone of the opposite race, and I am not a racist. I have never been "shocked" to see or be involved with someone of a different race. I think that's ridiculous. Obviously there are people of all races all around us, we don't need to be close personal friends with them to be comfortable working with them.

I'm not moving to a diverse neighborhood to make sure my child has a minority friend. I don't think we need to involve EEO to our cihldren's friendships. I won't deter a relationship with someone of another race, but I don't think I need to move across the county to make sure it happens.

This starts at home - do YOU make it a big deal? Or do you treat all races equally? I don't point someone out in the store and say "that person is an african-american and they might have different color skin, but that's ok". I don't have to. My children are taught to treat everyone equally. No matter what their skin looks like or if they are missing a leg.

[Anonymous]

I've always had trouble wrapping my brain around how people living and working and going to school in urban environments in the US manage to avoid ever having a personal relationship with someone outside their own race. PP, how did you do it? Where are the people of color in your life? Think about it this way -- we know they are not your friends, as you have stated. Are they your cab drivers? Your landscape crew? Your housekeeper? Unless all of the foregoing are also white...what message is your child likely to absorb, inevitably, no matter how good your intentions?

[Anonymous]

I've never had a close personal relationship with someone of the opposite race, and I am not a racist. I have never been "shocked" to see or be involved with someone of a different race. I think that's ridiculous. Obviously there are people of all races all around us, we don't need to be close personal friends with them to be comfortable working with them.

I'm not moving to a diverse neighborhood to make sure my child has a minority friend. I don't think we need to involve EEO to our cihldren's friendships. I won't deter a relationship with someone of another race, but I don't think I need to move across the county to make sure it happens.

This starts at home - do YOU make it a big deal? Or do you treat all races equally? I don't point someone out in the store and say "that person is an african-american and they might have different color skin, but that's ok". I don't have to. My children are taught to treat everyone equally. No matter what their skin looks like or if they are missing a leg.

There is value to cultural diversity beyond not being "shocked" to see or to be "involved with" someone of a different race. To be honest, your entire post suggests to me that you just don't get the concept at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is value to cultural diversity beyond not being "shocked" to see or to be "involved with" someone of a different race. To be honest, your entire post suggests to me that you just don't get the concept at all.

Totally agree. Plus, doesn't it seem like someone so very limited in diverse experiences would just be, you know, boring?

[Anonymous]

Totally agree. Plus, doesn't it seem like someone so very limited in diverse experiences would just be, you know, boring?

Among other things...

[Anonymous]

I am African American and grew up in this area. I am not offended by the OP question. But consider a few facts that have come out of solid extensive education research: White middle class children perform the same regardless of which school they attend (research has even shown that white children in public school do better that their counterparts in private school).

That said, a child exposed to racially diverse environment is less likely to have that shocked look on their face when they first encounter people of a different race. Most of my African American friends say that they can tell very early on if a white person feels comfortable around different races. There seems the be a squirmy discomfort.
Now exposing your child to different races has not been shown to make them less racist. What has been shown to cut down on racism is have had a close personal relationship with someone of a different race, like a friendship in school. That will not happen in an all white environment.

In the end, try to see your child as an adult professional, who does not have the burden of avoiding others because of fear...of the unknown.

I'm the "diversity poster" from the other post on NoVa schools. To 17:31 -- your post perfectly describes how I feel about this issue. Thank you.