Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

While it is true the progressives won another 12-0 Board election (in a non-partisan election), you are wrong to believe your ideas caused that win.

The real reason you achieved another monopoly is simple:

- pro-choice voters turned out in unusually high numbers to stop Youngkin’s pledge to sign a ban on most abortions after 20 weeks, and those same voters simply voted straight-democrat.

Many of these voters don’t even have children. Many more had no idea whatsoever of the issues in favor or against any FCPS school board candidate. These voters simply looked at the “democrat sample ballots” and voted as they were instructed to vote by the Party.

THAT is the main reason you “won,” and we are stuck with another ideological monopoly on the Board.

A secondary reason was the massive influx of dark-money (mostly from California), primarily into Karl Frisch’s campaign. Frisch amassed over $350,000 for this campaign, compared to nearly every other candidate getting just about $50,000 in comparison, on both sides.

West-coast special-interest dark-money bought chairman Frisch’s seat; and

- that is an achievement you are proud of? Seriously?? What is wrong with you, PP??

Dark money? Pfft.

I hear people talking like that then act like the koch brothers don't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

While it is true the progressives won another 12-0 Board election (in a non-partisan election), you are wrong to believe your ideas caused that win.

The real reason you achieved another monopoly is simple:

- pro-choice voters turned out in unusually high numbers to stop Youngkin’s pledge to sign a ban on most abortions after 20 weeks, and those same voters simply voted straight-democrat.

Many of these voters don’t even have children. Many more had no idea whatsoever of the issues in favor or against any FCPS school board candidate. These voters simply looked at the “democrat sample ballots” and voted as they were instructed to vote by the Party.

THAT is the main reason you “won,” and we are stuck with another ideological monopoly on the Board.

A secondary reason was the massive influx of dark-money (mostly from California), primarily into Karl Frisch’s campaign. Frisch amassed over $350,000 for this campaign, compared to nearly every other candidate getting just about $50,000 in comparison, on both sides.

West-coast special-interest dark-money bought chairman Frisch’s seat; and

- that is an achievement you are proud of? Seriously?? What is wrong with you, PP??

JS, your whining about Karl are tiresome and most likely come from some place other than a fear of dark money, given the massive amount that flowed into the recall efforts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Dark money? Pfft.

I hear people talking like that then act like the koch brothers don't exist.

Her assertion is laughable given that it looks like Karl got about $1500 from PACs (not counting DPVA and the LGBTQ Victory fund).

Karl has like 6 figures in his coffers, but she's worried about $1500. Which I'm certain really did the heavy lifting of the campaign. Pretty ironic that someone who thinks that was "an influx" of money is barfing all over a thread about a Science and Tech magnet. I'm guessing she wouldn't have been able to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just how many locations does Curie have and is their placement test that difficult? The number of times Curie receives a mention, almost sounds like it has more enrollment than the public school itself. We are not even from Northern Virginia, but curious to know.

Curie has three locations in northern virginia. The placement test is doable if the student is above average. Curie has grown twice in size in the last four years because of its reputation and success in nurturing exceptional middle school talent.

We have heard a lot of great things about Curie, but is the curriculum really that challenging for average students. We are concerned about cost, DC is currently enrolled in low cost Kumon. How does Curie cost compare to that of Kumon for two subjects? Went through fantasy stories in this thread, they are quite entertaining. Needed that laugh.

That's what we were led to believe that Curie costs a ton, but found out it's cheaper than Kumon. But the concern is more with their course rigor. If the student likes the challenge with higher math, english, and science, its a good fit, or else it gets very frustrating and they quit. More than half quit midway.

We are enrolled at Curie, and attend classes online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

Only 20% of students get into AAP.

Picking TJ admits from a pool of 30% of 8th graders is merit in a very mediocre world.
So it is a lottery with a very low hurdle for merit.
We are not anywhere close to picking the best students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

Only 20% of students get into AAP.

Picking TJ admits from a pool of 30% of 8th graders is merit in a very mediocre world.
So it is a lottery with a very low hurdle for merit.
We are not anywhere close to picking the best students.

Depends on how you define “best”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

Only 20% of students get into AAP.

Picking TJ admits from a pool of 30% of 8th graders is merit in a very mediocre world.
So it is a lottery with a very low hurdle for merit.
We are not anywhere close to picking the best students.

Depends on how you define “best”.

No, it doesn't. Picking randomly from the top 30% of students is not "best" under any reasonable definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

Only 20% of students get into AAP.

Picking TJ admits from a pool of 30% of 8th graders is merit in a very mediocre world.
So it is a lottery with a very low hurdle for merit.
We are not anywhere close to picking the best students.

Depends on how you define “best”.

No, it doesn't. Picking randomly from the top 30% of students is not "best" under any reasonable definition.

It could be the best allocation of seats for interested kids across the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

Only 20% of students get into AAP.

Picking TJ admits from a pool of 30% of 8th graders is merit in a very mediocre world.
So it is a lottery with a very low hurdle for merit.
We are not anywhere close to picking the best students.

Depends on how you define “best”.

No, it doesn't. Picking randomly from the top 30% of students is not "best" under any reasonable definition.

It could be the best allocation of seats for interested kids across the county.

It's the best method of increasing urm without express racial discrimination.

If merit has any value at all then you could have this exact same process plus a test so that you at least get the most capable kids from each of the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/906227.page

Guys, this is as close to the "scandal" as I can find. One prep center was doing too good. I can see they prepped similar tests and the students, in their excitement and remember they are 14, boasted that they got the "exact" prep question.

Harvesting past test question isn't cheating. Guys.

DP. Agree.

Plus: THIS THREAD WAS STARTED FOUR (4) YEARS AGO !! But someone bumped it: WHY??

Seems clear that someone out there has a major grudge against TJ, the Curie test prep center, or both.

To that person: please who you are and what your motive is here?

I've been as big a contributor to this discussion as anyone. My intent in initially bringing the matter to light was to highlight the fact that there had been students getting into TJ for years on largely false pretenses.

What happened at Curie (and folks, please stop arguing that it didn't happen - you're living in an alternate reality) was designed to create imbalances in the TJ Admissions process, and did so successfully.

Worse yet, the flagship course that created these imbalances and provided undeserved advantages:
- were available for the low, low price of $5,000;
- committed students to 16 months of targeted study specifically to crack the TJ exam, which was supposed to be secured;
- appeared based on their published list to be only available to students of South Asian descent.

Did Curie do anything wrong? The answer is probably no. But did they expose a massive flaw in the TJ Admissions process that needed to be rectified, creating conditions that led to the adoption of the new admissions process so reviled by the community that they aim to exclusively serve? Yes, yes they did.

As I've said many times before, I bear no specific ill will towards Curie, except inasmuch as they are part of the very problematic industry that seeks to create imbalances in elite school admissions processes that favor families with resources. All I ever wanted was for FCPS to adjust the TJ Admissions process so that families would not be directly and obviously rewarded for participating in that industry.

And again, I and my people won. Convincingly, resoundingly, and with yet another 12-0 School Board and with the Supreme Court declining to take the case, seemingly permanently.

Again, saying you "won" is meaningless.

Your barometer is in part a 12-0 vote from a school board to support a resolution it created itself - with well-known dubious motives - after its members paid a PR firm to tell themselves what a good idea it was. The school board is a political body, and anyone knows that policies that look like they support equity receive overwhelming popular support, independent of their merit. Nobody's surprised by a unanimous vote from this echo chamber.

As to the Suproeme Court, realize that we live in America, where stupid, self-defeating ideas are legal, and hypocrisy isn't illegal up to a point. A failure of the Supreme Court to hear the case should not be interpreted as a success.

What you've accomplished is to push forward an unsatisfactory policy in wait of a better one to replace it. Yet you're harming the ability to do so by throwing around silly phrases like "we won".

The failure of the supreme court to hear this case highlights the fact that facially neutral laws are not violations of the 14th amendment merely because they were born of racist motives.
It took the voting rights act explicitly outlawing literacy tests and poll taxes, they didn't get outlawed by the civil rights act or the 14th amendment.
It's why racially motivated voter ID laws are perfectly legal, because they are in fact facially neutral.
This new admissions process is basically a modified lottery and is non-discriminatory, almost by definition (it also doesn't filter for merit).

We probably can't win this one in the courts.
We will have to win at the ballot box.

It does filter for “merit”.

30% of the students in FCPS are qualified to apply. After that it's so subjective that it's basically random.

So a lottery for merit students. Sounds good to me.

Only 20% of students get into AAP.

Picking TJ admits from a pool of 30% of 8th graders is merit in a very mediocre world.
So it is a lottery with a very low hurdle for merit.
We are not anywhere close to picking the best students.

Depends on how you define “best”.

No, it doesn't. Picking randomly from the top 30% of students is not "best" under any reasonable definition.

It could be the best allocation of seats for interested kids across the county.

It's the best method of increasing urm without express racial discrimination.

If merit has any value at all then you could have this exact same process plus a test so that you at least get the most capable kids from each of the schools.

There is certainly room for improvement in the current process, but it’s much better than the last one.