New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

I am the person who took the career hit, genius. I took a mommy-tracked, WFH job so that I could be available as soon as school got out.

And no, DH is not a high earner so that we can just hire a nanny. We are regular people trying to make it work in this area. We already stagger schedules and limit activities and all the other obvious advice that people have thrown out here.

If you consider a Fed job mommy tracked, you are supporting Trump and Musks narrative. These are professional jobs, not a hobby for when kids are at school

I'm an attorney. In my circle, a 40 hour/week job with only occasional (uncompensated) weekends/nights IS a "mommy track job." The women I work with graduated from T14 law schools, were on law review, and had federal clerkships. They're eminently qualified for the most demanding jobs. For them, a full-time job with a predictable schedule and some flexibility is the mommy track.

[Anonymous]

The OPM’s blanket approach may (likely) violate federal law. There is a strong argument to challenge it legally. Doesn’t mean your agency won’t abide by it anyway due to political pressure. But they may be required to do more work to justify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The OPM’s blanket approach may (likely) violate federal law. There is a strong argument to challenge it legally. Doesn’t mean your agency won’t abide by it anyway due to political pressure. But they may be required to do more work to justify it.

What federal law?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The OPM’s blanket approach may (likely) violate federal law. There is a strong argument to challenge it legally. Doesn’t mean your agency won’t abide by it anyway due to political pressure. But they may be required to do more work to justify it.

What federal law?

Telework Act of 2010

[Anonymous]

The answer to this, beyond challenging it with grievances, etc., is to work to the rule. Follow each and every regulation and policy to the letter. No short cuts. No time-savers. Not a second of work after the clock. Don't bring your laptop home. Don't answer calls after hours. If people don't get their disability claims approved for 10 years because the form needs to filled out in triplicate and the physician signed in the wrong place, then that's too bad. No IRS refund check because we had to quadruple check your identify and get the Treasury secretary to hand sign the check? Too bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The OPM’s blanket approach may (likely) violate federal law. There is a strong argument to challenge it legally. Doesn’t mean your agency won’t abide by it anyway due to political pressure. But they may be required to do more work to justify it.

Labor lawyers will have a field day with the OPM memo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The answer to this, beyond challenging it with grievances, etc., is to work to the rule. Follow each and every regulation and policy to the letter. No short cuts. No time-savers. Not a second of work after the clock. Don't bring your laptop home. Don't answer calls after hours. If people don't get their disability claims approved for 10 years because the form needs to filled out in triplicate and the physician signed in the wrong place, then that's too bad. No IRS refund check because we had to quadruple check your identify and get the Treasury secretary to hand sign the check? Too bad.

THIS. FAFO. There will be no laptop at home. Answering questions on vacation. Staying for a late meeting. It’ll be 8 hours and done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

Nah, two Feds would just split shift, was very standard at my office.

But the early mornings is a pain and you still want aftercare for just in case, which is harder now because less available

The difference also is housing is so expensive for Feds now that commutes are materially different than even 5 years ago

Someone mentioned split shifts on a DCUM parent forum a while ago and it sounded like time card fraud and bad parenting. The person claimed they worked four hours during the day and four hours at night, starting after their children went to bed at 9 pm, and then woke their kids up every morning at 5 am, so their 4 and 5 year olds would nap for three hours in the middle of the day while they worked. I am completely opposed to what Trump is doing, but RTO started to seem reasonable after I read that post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

Nah, two Feds would just split shift, was very standard at my office.

But the early mornings is a pain and you still want aftercare for just in case, which is harder now because less available

The difference also is housing is so expensive for Feds now that commutes are materially different than even 5 years ago

Someone mentioned split shifts on a DCUM parent forum a while ago and it sounded like time card fraud and bad parenting. The person claimed they worked four hours during the day and four hours at night, starting after their children went to bed at 9 pm, and then woke their kids up every morning at 5 am, so their 4 and 5 year olds would nap for three hours in the middle of the day while they worked. I am completely opposed to what Trump is doing, but RTO started to seem reasonable after I read that post.

So everyone in the federal government needs to pay for that? Shoot, even if 5% did it, does that mean the 95% have to be punished with no flexibility?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who moved away from the commuting area, or took fully-remote job, knew there was the chance of this happening under a different administration.

And what about those of us who had hybrid jobs for over a decade before COVID even happened and lived close to the office, but then our office shut down and we have nowhere to go?

What did we plan wrong? Should I have seen the Trump Administration and these ridiculous spiteful RTO EOs coming back in 2009?

And like a PP said *I* was the one in the family who took the career hit. I graduated near the top of my class from a highly ranked law school. I gave up earnings for this flexibility because I knew I wanted to have kids.

So many on this board want to lecture us for not planning better or not taking a career hit like everyone else, but for many of this, this was our plan/career hit to work for the government. But people got jealous of my life choices and decided it’s not fair (although I don’t hear similar outrage over telework in the private sector 🤔). It doesn’t seem like most posters are against employees in private industry getting to WAH, so I think it’s just the idea of the federal workforce they’re mad about, not telework itself.

If our pay was cut in half and our benefits slashed and we were all told to work 80 hours per week, I’m sure these same people would cheer and tell us to suck it up because they’re hellbent on hating us no matter what. It’s frankly bizarre and they’ve clearly been brainwashed by Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

Nah, two Feds would just split shift, was very standard at my office.

But the early mornings is a pain and you still want aftercare for just in case, which is harder now because less available

The difference also is housing is so expensive for Feds now that commutes are materially different than even 5 years ago

Someone mentioned split shifts on a DCUM parent forum a while ago and it sounded like time card fraud and bad parenting. The person claimed they worked four hours during the day and four hours at night, starting after their children went to bed at 9 pm, and then woke their kids up every morning at 5 am, so their 4 and 5 year olds would nap for three hours in the middle of the day while they worked. I am completely opposed to what Trump is doing, but RTO started to seem reasonable after I read that post.

It’s not fraud. Maxiflex schedules have been a thing forever. They are authorized by law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Yep. Before Covid one of us got up at 5am to work 7-330 to be back in time for afternoon shuffle.

We still paid for aftercare since traffic etc could throw a wrench.

You need carpools, that was key.

PP has a DH who teleworks 100%, no idea why she is freaking out, he should just take care of all the kid shuffling just like she has been. We worked with no one teleworking, but we live in an expensive, small, old shtshack because we prioritized shorter commutes over space and newness in housing.

I’m the PP with the remote DH you’re responding to and it’s hard to just say he should shuffle the kids. He is the higher earner and works with people in different time zones, so he can’t always end his day at 4 PM. I took a lower paying flexible job to help handle afternoons. I had telework before COVID so this wasn’t just a pandemic plan.

Oh and I also work in a small, older home. But my office shut down and I have no idea where I could be made to report to work. If they move my office far away it’s not easy to just give up a < 3% interest rate, so I’m not even sure I could buy a home with a shoet commute at this point.

And the people who don’t have the incomes for a nanny to shuttle kids probably also don’t have money to buy a house wherever they want, especially if they are first time buyers and/or have a spouse’s commute to take into consideration.

I get that you don’t give a crap about families’ hardships, but don’t pretend you’re morally superior because you chose a smaller house close in. A lot of us did that and then the entire fed employment structure unexpectedly changed and offices were downsized.

If he is the higher earner, enough to justify dumping everything to you, that means he makes much more than a Fed, and then you can just quit and move someplace cheaper.

I saw someone say they might do this in another thread and they got lambasted for that idea anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

I am the person who took the career hit, genius. I took a mommy-tracked, WFH job so that I could be available as soon as school got out.

And no, DH is not a high earner so that we can just hire a nanny. We are regular people trying to make it work in this area. We already stagger schedules and limit activities and all the other obvious advice that people have thrown out here.

If you consider a Fed job mommy tracked, you are supporting Trump and Musks narrative. These are professional jobs, not a hobby for when kids are at school

Then you are stupid if you believe this narrative.

A basic GS 11-13 track attorney job that only requires 40 hours/week with flex and hybrid is mommy tracked compared to big law. It’s not a hobby job, but it isn’t a high power legal career (outside of maybe DOJ litigators and SES).

Perhaps “mommy tracked” has a bad connotation, but we all know it is usually moms making the decision to give up more pay for more flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

I am the person who took the career hit, genius. I took a mommy-tracked, WFH job so that I could be available as soon as school got out.

And no, DH is not a high earner so that we can just hire a nanny. We are regular people trying to make it work in this area. We already stagger schedules and limit activities and all the other obvious advice that people have thrown out here.

If you consider a Fed job mommy tracked, you are supporting Trump and Musks narrative. These are professional jobs, not a hobby for when kids are at school

NP- "mommy tracked" just means that you only work 40 hours. Sometimes you have flexibility to shift your schedule depending on issues like school half days, the zillion snow days, sick kids (when my kids are sick, they are SICK and just sleep all day while I telework). Being mommy tracked doesn't mean I don't work hard. It just means that I don't work 60 hour weeks. In exchange, I'm also not paid a high salary like I work 60 hour weeks. I get paid for the 40 that I did.

Maybe this push to return to the office will be the impetus for society to rethink our public schools. Public school schedules are insane and are not working for most families. Too short of hours, too many snow days (or "cold days" like we've had this week) and the end times are way, way too early. Kids need more education and need to be in school until 4 at least. Most of us wouldn't need to mommy track if schools ran normal schedules 5 days a week like 9-4.

We’ve had decades of dual working parent households with zero reforms to help working parents. I’m here for it, but not optimistic that fed RTO will start an educational revolution.

DP. I don’t think it should be on schools to fix the stress points work working parents. It’s already hard enough to hire teachers (many who are working parents themselves). Over the past couple decades we’ve tacked on things like active shooter drills and handling IEPs with inadequate resources without substantial pay increases. Now they need to fix childcare for us, oh and don’t forget to prep for ICE raids.

I 100% think we need a working parent revolution, but having the Trump administration set such a hostile agenda toward working parents is a huge step backwards, and I can’t imagine asking locally funded school districts to become the stopgap to keeping society functioning and kids cared for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

Yes that’s exactly what parents did. Some families can flex schedules so one parent drops off and goes in later while the other goes in earlier and does end of the day pick up. Others get nannies, after school sitters or use family help. People do before and aftercare with summer camps and camp selection often was based on work needs not kid preferences. It was common for people to do some work from home in the evenings or early mornings on those occasions where not everything got completed during the work day. And lots of vacation leave gets sucked up by days off from school if you don’t have childcare that runs during periods when schools are closed.

People who had their kids in 2019 or before would be familiar with this. It’s just going back to pre Covid life.

Oh my goodness to the majority of parents this is all common knowledge.
Are you really not aware that people who have kids and by necessity also have jobs... are making tradeoffs & piecing things together every single fcking day?
Yet you expect our taxes to pay your overcompensated salaries/benefits/vaca/snow days (omg!) ect ect while you get to sit home because god forbid you should be inconvenienced getting larla to all her extracurricular activities & camp
Welcome to the majority's reality. Hope you enjoy your stay