What is your federal agency telling you re: RTO? (No other rants/comments!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand the space issue.

Way back Charles Schwab in the late 90s rolled out 9/80s. worked your 80 hours over 9 days and got every tenth day over. The tenth day off was spread evenly hence freeing up 10 percent more office space.

One company even did 10 hour work days spread hour freeing up 20 percent office space and employees got one day off each week.

Or do hoteling, hot desks, get rid of offices, cubes move to long tables, shift work.

My last in-person company the floor was designed in 1980s with big private offices, large cubes, lots of conferences rooms, large lobby area. It sat 350. We got rid off all but one conference room, got rid of nearly every office, got rid of cubes and went bullpen style. At the peak we had 800 people in that space for 350 no problem.

It is not likely possible for my built in 1930 building to do this. It’s built around 3 courtyards, so work space is skinny on both sides of the hallways, even removing all the walls, which does not seem structurally likely, you’d only be able to line up desks single file in the vast majority of the spaces. It wouldn’t accommodate tables for people to sit at, there wouldn’t be enough space to put chairs all around a table without having people smashed against the wall on one side. Even in the rooms that are currently cube filled, they can only have cubes two deep, one in many places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still nothing as of 0900 on Monday - I work for Army/DoD at the Pentagon- I have had 2 days of TW a week. Sorry to see that go, but writing seems to be on the wall. There are not enough desks for my office if every person came back 5 days a week - we already share offices and have cubicles - I am a GS15 - so they will have to get creative with that.

Why go? You are a 15. Wait it out.

you should have been notified this morning. DoD finally got the message- all telework and remote is canceled. 30 days to comply. you can fill out paperwork for situational TW so you can work from home on a snow day (not sure why anyone would so this?)

You do it so you don't have to take annual leave.

My command basically told us that if you don't want to do situational telework then you will take admin leave if the office is closed.

Annual not admin. Bascially if you don't do the telework agreement then you're burning your own leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand the space issue.

Way back Charles Schwab in the late 90s rolled out 9/80s. worked your 80 hours over 9 days and got every tenth day over. The tenth day off was spread evenly hence freeing up 10 percent more office space.

One company even did 10 hour work days spread hour freeing up 20 percent office space and employees got one day off each week.

Or do hoteling, hot desks, get rid of offices, cubes move to long tables, shift work.

My last in-person company the floor was designed in 1980s with big private offices, large cubes, lots of conferences rooms, large lobby area. It sat 350. We got rid off all but one conference room, got rid of nearly every office, got rid of cubes and went bullpen style. At the peak we had 800 people in that space for 350 no problem.

Hoteling and hot desks implies that people are in the office part time. That won't work here if everyone is in all of the time. The 4 days/week is also prohibited in many offices, just based on preferences (plus I doubt our new OPM overlords will be content with that kind of arrangment). They want us in the office 5 days/week. Shifts don't generally work for most government work. Everyone is supposed to be there during the same core hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand the space issue.

Way back Charles Schwab in the late 90s rolled out 9/80s. worked your 80 hours over 9 days and got every tenth day over. The tenth day off was spread evenly hence freeing up 10 percent more office space.

One company even did 10 hour work days spread hour freeing up 20 percent office space and employees got one day off each week.

Or do hoteling, hot desks, get rid of offices, cubes move to long tables, shift work.

My last in-person company the floor was designed in 1980s with big private offices, large cubes, lots of conferences rooms, large lobby area. It sat 350. We got rid off all but one conference room, got rid of nearly every office, got rid of cubes and went bullpen style. At the peak we had 800 people in that space for 350 no problem.

sounds like a fire hazard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand the space issue.

Way back Charles Schwab in the late 90s rolled out 9/80s. worked your 80 hours over 9 days and got every tenth day over. The tenth day off was spread evenly hence freeing up 10 percent more office space.

One company even did 10 hour work days spread hour freeing up 20 percent office space and employees got one day off each week.

Or do hoteling, hot desks, get rid of offices, cubes move to long tables, shift work.

My last in-person company the floor was designed in 1980s with big private offices, large cubes, lots of conferences rooms, large lobby area. It sat 350. We got rid off all but one conference room, got rid of nearly every office, got rid of cubes and went bullpen style. At the peak we had 800 people in that space for 350 no problem.

sounds like a fire hazard

that's the other part -- government has to follow GSA rules. These rules exist to create transparency for bid processes. The goal is elimination fo bias. So you unfortunately cannot do what Charles Schwab does and stuff everyone into the halls.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For supervisors, how are you handling discussions around this with your employees? I find it challenging to balance toeing the company line for risk of being fired with being sympathetic to how disruptive this will be to people’s lives (though I feel some of the DCUM responses are a bit entitled also)

My employees know that I like flexible workplace policies—I don’t plan to sugarcoat anything for them. This is what it is. Show up or it’s your job, same as for me. We are all adults and can make our own choices.

This. There is nothing more I can tell them so leave your sob stories at home. You only have two options, come in quit or retire.

There's a ton of unknowns still, even with some directive to come in 5 days/week. Those unknowns may be things that provide more flexibility to staff with different circumstances. You could say that those are still things that could be eventually available.

But you sound like a bad boss.

My agency already said they will allow situational telework. I'm wondering if they eventually include ad hoc in that... probably not, but it could be very helpful for many.

There's also flex schedules, even ones that require coming to the office 5x/week, that could help people with childcare pickup/dropoff hours. Or even just allowing accruing credit hours one day and taking those credit hours the next (ie., no formal agreement for flextime). There are still options that fit within a 40-hour-in-office requirement, but allow some flexibility.

Yes. This. The problem is that the EO said full time at your duty station but I do think some agencies will still allow people to flex around so long as you’re present during core hours every day and with that I have zero problems. It’s basically what I already do three days a week.

but full time = 40 hours/week. I would definitely be 40 hours at my duty station if I did (say) 9/7/9/7/8.

I think you forgot about the mandatory unpaid lunch.

LOL. You're right, my mandatory unpaid lunch would make that all be 42.5 hours in office, so 9.5/7.5/9.5/7.5/8.5. Wouldn't want to let down the taxpayers!

You’ve got a good point. I might do something like that bc there are going to be some days I need to leave early ha but I’m worried if my time sheet doesn’t reflect 8.5hrs each day evenly, I could be tapped and then terminated. I do have maxiflex though and this technically is allowed-question is will maxiflex exist in this new regime or will OPM get rid of it?

Why not just claim the extra hour as a credit hour on day one, the use the credit hour on day two to cover leaving early. That way it will reflect 8.5 hours of time that day as well. 7.5 worked (including the unpaid lunch) + 1 hour credit taken, 8.5 entered on the time sheet.

Many agencies don't have credit hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand the space issue.

Way back Charles Schwab in the late 90s rolled out 9/80s. worked your 80 hours over 9 days and got every tenth day over. The tenth day off was spread evenly hence freeing up 10 percent more office space.

One company even did 10 hour work days spread hour freeing up 20 percent office space and employees got one day off each week.

Or do hoteling, hot desks, get rid of offices, cubes move to long tables, shift work.

My last in-person company the floor was designed in 1980s with big private offices, large cubes, lots of conferences rooms, large lobby area. It sat 350. We got rid off all but one conference room, got rid of nearly every office, got rid of cubes and went bullpen style. At the peak we had 800 people in that space for 350 no problem.

Hoteling and hot desks implies that people are in the office part time. That won't work here if everyone is in all of the time. The 4 days/week is also prohibited in many offices, just based on preferences (plus I doubt our new OPM overlords will be content with that kind of arrangment). They want us in the office 5 days/week. Shifts don't generally work for most government work. Everyone is supposed to be there during the same core hours.

Our director (not DIA another agency) mentioned shift work as a possibility, meaning true shift work, which means crazy hours (1st shift 6am to 2pm, 2nd shift 3pm to 11am). DIA employees did this during COVID.

[Anonymous]

Nothing so far. Not one memo or notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still nothing as of 0900 on Monday - I work for Army/DoD at the Pentagon- I have had 2 days of TW a week. Sorry to see that go, but writing seems to be on the wall. There are not enough desks for my office if every person came back 5 days a week - we already share offices and have cubicles - I am a GS15 - so they will have to get creative with that.

Why go? You are a 15. Wait it out.

you should have been notified this morning. DoD finally got the message- all telework and remote is canceled. 30 days to comply. you can fill out paperwork for situational TW so you can work from home on a snow day (not sure why anyone would so this?)

You do it so you don't have to take annual leave.

My command basically told us that if you don't want to do situational telework then you will take admin leave if the office is closed.

Annual not admin. Bascially if you don't do the telework agreement then you're burning your own leave.

I don’t think they can make you take leave if OPM is closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand the space issue.

Way back Charles Schwab in the late 90s rolled out 9/80s. worked your 80 hours over 9 days and got every tenth day over. The tenth day off was spread evenly hence freeing up 10 percent more office space.

One company even did 10 hour work days spread hour freeing up 20 percent office space and employees got one day off each week.

Or do hoteling, hot desks, get rid of offices, cubes move to long tables, shift work.

My last in-person company the floor was designed in 1980s with big private offices, large cubes, lots of conferences rooms, large lobby area. It sat 350. We got rid off all but one conference room, got rid of nearly every office, got rid of cubes and went bullpen style. At the peak we had 800 people in that space for 350 no problem.

Tell us you don’t understand what government workers do without saying it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still nothing as of 0900 on Monday - I work for Army/DoD at the Pentagon- I have had 2 days of TW a week. Sorry to see that go, but writing seems to be on the wall. There are not enough desks for my office if every person came back 5 days a week - we already share offices and have cubicles - I am a GS15 - so they will have to get creative with that.

Why go? You are a 15. Wait it out.

you should have been notified this morning. DoD finally got the message- all telework and remote is canceled. 30 days to comply. you can fill out paperwork for situational TW so you can work from home on a snow day (not sure why anyone would so this?)

You do it so you don't have to take annual leave.

My command basically told us that if you don't want to do situational telework then you will take admin leave if the office is closed.

Annual not admin. Bascially if you don't do the telework agreement then you're burning your own leave.

I don’t think they can make you take leave if OPM is closed.

If you are telework ready they can. But we’ve always been told no telework agreement = not telework ready. During years where I was voluntarily not teleworking for whatever reason, I never had a telework agreement and therefore was not permitted to telework when OPM closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still nothing as of 0900 on Monday - I work for Army/DoD at the Pentagon- I have had 2 days of TW a week. Sorry to see that go, but writing seems to be on the wall. There are not enough desks for my office if every person came back 5 days a week - we already share offices and have cubicles - I am a GS15 - so they will have to get creative with that.

Why go? You are a 15. Wait it out.

you should have been notified this morning. DoD finally got the message- all telework and remote is canceled. 30 days to comply. you can fill out paperwork for situational TW so you can work from home on a snow day (not sure why anyone would so this?)

You do it so you don't have to take annual leave.

My command basically told us that if you don't want to do situational telework then you will take admin leave if the office is closed.

Annual not admin. Bascially if you don't do the telework agreement then you're burning your own leave.

I don’t think they can make you take leave if OPM is closed.

Yes they can—if it’s a snow emergency and OPM is closed, daycares are closed, you can’t get emergency care, your options are to take leave or…take leave. It sucks.

[Anonymous]

We're all coming back in - no question about that. The thing that's still up in the air is situational telework and what will be allowed. We're hearing rumors about it being everything from nothing but emergency weather situations to a pre-approved list of situations that supervisors have blanket authority to use when approving requests (i.e., working before/after a doctor's appointment).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still nothing as of 0900 on Monday - I work for Army/DoD at the Pentagon- I have had 2 days of TW a week. Sorry to see that go, but writing seems to be on the wall. There are not enough desks for my office if every person came back 5 days a week - we already share offices and have cubicles - I am a GS15 - so they will have to get creative with that.

Why go? You are a 15. Wait it out.

you should have been notified this morning. DoD finally got the message- all telework and remote is canceled. 30 days to comply. you can fill out paperwork for situational TW so you can work from home on a snow day (not sure why anyone would so this?)

You do it so you don't have to take annual leave.

My command basically told us that if you don't want to do situational telework then you will take admin leave if the office is closed.

Annual not admin. Bascially if you don't do the telework agreement then you're burning your own leave.

I don’t think they can make you take leave if OPM is closed.

Yes they can—if it’s a snow emergency and OPM is closed, daycares are closed, you can’t get emergency care, your options are to take leave or…take leave. It sucks.

If you have a signed telework agreement in place. All of the current ones are now void and no new ones have been drafted. If it snows next week, then it's weather admin time because no new agreements will be in place yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still nothing as of 0900 on Monday - I work for Army/DoD at the Pentagon- I have had 2 days of TW a week. Sorry to see that go, but writing seems to be on the wall. There are not enough desks for my office if every person came back 5 days a week - we already share offices and have cubicles - I am a GS15 - so they will have to get creative with that.

Why go? You are a 15. Wait it out.

you should have been notified this morning. DoD finally got the message- all telework and remote is canceled. 30 days to comply. you can fill out paperwork for situational TW so you can work from home on a snow day (not sure why anyone would so this?)

You do it so you don't have to take annual leave.

My command basically told us that if you don't want to do situational telework then you will take admin leave if the office is closed.

Annual not admin. Bascially if you don't do the telework agreement then you're burning your own leave.

I don’t think they can make you take leave if OPM is closed.

Yes they can—if it’s a snow emergency and OPM is closed, daycares are closed, you can’t get emergency care, your options are to take leave or…take leave. It sucks.

If you have a signed telework agreement in place. All of the current ones are now void and no new ones have been drafted. If it snows next week, then it's weather admin time because no new agreements will be in place yet

Is that the hill you really want to die on with your supervisor?

I supervise people and I treat people like adults and don't clock watch or do any of the crazy stories I read about on here. But if someone wants to play that game with me and push hard on telework when they've been work from home for years then I can play that game too and treat people like children if that's how they are going to act over the new President's policies.