TJ admissions change from Merit to Essay impact to Asian American Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

Who do you think is “expecting handouts from the system”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, it's no coincidence that algebra 1 count went from 20+ in 2024 before admissions change to 160+ in the 2025 class, and the new class was declared as having more diversity.

"Compared to TJ Class of 2024, the proportion of students in Class of 2025 admitted with the minimal required math background of Algebra 1 in 8th grade increased sevenfold, from 4.5% to 31%"
https://www.fcag.org/documents/TJ_Class_of_2025_analysis.pdf

From Page 3: "Compared to previous years, there is a huge leap in the number of students taking Algebra 1 rather than higher level math. There were 161 students admitted who only had taken Algebra 1 In previous years, that number has been about 20 students ... "
It appears Algebr 1 criteria was used to sift out the 1140+ denied asian american applicants

Admissions are a secret process for a reason. Manipulate as needed first, and cook an explanation later.

The reason admissions processes are secret (by the way, the TJ Admissions process is WAY less opaque than it should be) is to prevent people from narrowly tailoring either their or their child's lives in pursuit of the acceptance letter.

Purely objective, rubric-based admissions processes result in dangerously homogenous admit populations. At TJ in the 2010s, that manifested itself in a hyper-competitive environment where you had too many kids who were trying to achieve the same goals along the same path when multiple paths were readily available. It was a deeply unhealthy environment and eventually resulted in TJ's first instances of suicide and a huge spike in self-harm.

They care about children's mental health while telling talented and hard-working kids who were treated unfairly to accept the results because "it is what it is", "there are not enough seats for everyone", "it will happen again with college admissions", etc. They should go Fxxk themselves.

There were never enough seats for all qualified applicants. They added 50 seats so more talented kids from across the county can have the opportunity.

Less talented, but have preferred skin color, is what news release shows along with percentages.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new process are low-income Asian applicants.

Are you saying they are preferred?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

But lower math algebra 1 students from worst fcps middle schools are being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose and level up to the advanced peers from top middle schools. How is that not inhumane mental abuse of innocent students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, it's no coincidence that algebra 1 count went from 20+ in 2024 before admissions change to 160+ in the 2025 class, and the new class was declared as having more diversity.

"Compared to TJ Class of 2024, the proportion of students in Class of 2025 admitted with the minimal required math background of Algebra 1 in 8th grade increased sevenfold, from 4.5% to 31%"
https://www.fcag.org/documents/TJ_Class_of_2025_analysis.pdf

From Page 3: "Compared to previous years, there is a huge leap in the number of students taking Algebra 1 rather than higher level math. There were 161 students admitted who only had taken Algebra 1 In previous years, that number has been about 20 students ... "
It appears Algebr 1 criteria was used to sift out the 1140+ denied asian american applicants

Admissions are a secret process for a reason. Manipulate as needed first, and cook an explanation later.

The reason admissions processes are secret (by the way, the TJ Admissions process is WAY less opaque than it should be) is to prevent people from narrowly tailoring either their or their child's lives in pursuit of the acceptance letter.

Purely objective, rubric-based admissions processes result in dangerously homogenous admit populations. At TJ in the 2010s, that manifested itself in a hyper-competitive environment where you had too many kids who were trying to achieve the same goals along the same path when multiple paths were readily available. It was a deeply unhealthy environment and eventually resulted in TJ's first instances of suicide and a huge spike in self-harm.

They care about children's mental health while telling talented and hard-working kids who were treated unfairly to accept the results because "it is what it is", "there are not enough seats for everyone", "it will happen again with college admissions", etc. They should go Fxxk themselves.

There were never enough seats for all qualified applicants. They added 50 seats so more talented kids from across the county can have the opportunity.

Less talented, but have preferred skin color, is what news release shows along with percentages.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new process are low-income Asian applicants.

Are you saying they are preferred?

asian representation went 73% to 54%, were excluded from expanded quota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

But lower math algebra 1 students from worst fcps middle schools are being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose and level up to the advanced peers from top middle schools. How is that not inhumane mental abuse of innocent students?

You are making up problems here with the phrase “being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose.” Come on, that is a highly exaggerated metaphor.

And the truth is, many of those “advanced” peers do not have a good grasp of the fundamentals because they rushed through math couses too quickly to develop a truly strong understanding. Two different TJ math teachers, one in 2011 and one in 2014, told me about this problem, so well before the changes in the application process.

There is no “inhumane mental abuse of innocent students” going on here by giving students a fair shot at the limited places available at TJ, regardless of the income or educational level of their parents. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

PP is saying that people who are just above the FARMS line are being excluded because experience factors carry too much weight in the evaluation. Removing the test already took the wealth advantage away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

How many years was your family living under the poverty line? How did that affect your children?

My parents were poor for their entire lives, born to lower income parents with no higher education. Then they were poor until after their kids grew up, when they were finally able to save some for their retirement. So decades and decades of poverty, going back generations. How many years did you live “under the poverty line”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

Who do you think is “expecting handouts from the system”?

I hope no one but expect a non-merit based system to create a group of individuals from any ethnicities and backgrounds who has been favored by the system and will wait for favorable treatments from the system.

[Anonymous]

Keep the discussion going, I am collecting notes. This is gold right here. I will consider having DC memorize these sob stories and use them for next year's TJ admission essay when they apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep the discussion going, I am collecting notes. This is gold right here. I will consider having DC memorize these sob stories and use them for next year's TJ admission essay when they apply.

I assume you are joking, since doing that would be telling your child to lie, unless you actually have been poor and uneducated for most of your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, it's no coincidence that algebra 1 count went from 20+ in 2024 before admissions change to 160+ in the 2025 class, and the new class was declared as having more diversity.

"Compared to TJ Class of 2024, the proportion of students in Class of 2025 admitted with the minimal required math background of Algebra 1 in 8th grade increased sevenfold, from 4.5% to 31%"
https://www.fcag.org/documents/TJ_Class_of_2025_analysis.pdf

From Page 3: "Compared to previous years, there is a huge leap in the number of students taking Algebra 1 rather than higher level math. There were 161 students admitted who only had taken Algebra 1 In previous years, that number has been about 20 students ... "
It appears Algebr 1 criteria was used to sift out the 1140+ denied asian american applicants

Admissions are a secret process for a reason. Manipulate as needed first, and cook an explanation later.

The reason admissions processes are secret (by the way, the TJ Admissions process is WAY less opaque than it should be) is to prevent people from narrowly tailoring either their or their child's lives in pursuit of the acceptance letter.

Purely objective, rubric-based admissions processes result in dangerously homogenous admit populations. At TJ in the 2010s, that manifested itself in a hyper-competitive environment where you had too many kids who were trying to achieve the same goals along the same path when multiple paths were readily available. It was a deeply unhealthy environment and eventually resulted in TJ's first instances of suicide and a huge spike in self-harm.

Transparency is always better than opaque and subjective measures. Asians were routinely scored lower on “personality traits” by Harvard only so that admission outcomes could be engineered as desired. Harvard leveraged subjective criteria in the 1920s as well to restrict the number of Jewish students.

People study to the test - whether it is TJ, SAT, LSAT or MCAT. You may get homogeneity as a result but it is way better than engineered outcomes that are not tied to merit in any way. There is a reason elite schools are returning to standardized testing.

You must not be very familiar with the SAT. They change it every few years. It's a completely different test now that it was in the last iteration, or the one before that, or the one before that.

Ok. You have educated me on how frequently the SAT changes. That is also a point to be made. Change the test but don’t eliminate it.

P.S. - did you know that despite the periodic changes, SAT prep is a thriving industry? Just google SAT prep. You are welcome…

"The US Test Preparation market is valued at USD 14.72 billion ..." . Interestingly, "Sports Coaching in the US - Market Size is $13.9bn"

https://www.technavio.com/report/test-preparation-market-industry-in-the-us-analysis

https://www.ibisworld.com/united-states/market-research-reports/sports-coaching-industry/

How can a family afford one and not substitute it for the other?

Guess it's a matter of values. Are there special SPORTS high schools that only admit the top 1.5% of athletes, similar to how TJ admits the top 1.5% of students?

Racial balancing takes place only where Asian Americans are in majority, not when other races are. Equity minions are chicken to even talk about sports.

It never takes place since it's extremely illegal in the US.It only exists in the minds of a few crazies.

Race based affirmative action was always illegal in the US, but brainwashed minions were told it was legal. SC set the record straight, and banned it.

Technically they did not ban it. That was wishcasting by Clarence Thomas in his concurring opinion.

Please address a SC judge properly with proper respect they deserve. He is black, but still deserves respect like any other human. Address him properly as, Justice Clarence Thomas. Is that too much to ask?
Justice Clarence Thomas has clarified affirmative action required students be identified by the color of their skin. Goes against what MLK said, judge people by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin. Equity minions have no brain of their own, they do what they are told to. They are minion for a reason. This is what Justice Clarence Thomas has been cautioning equity cabal against - dont be a blind sheep!

You didn't have enough respect to read his concurring decision or the majority decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

How many years was your family living under the poverty line? How did that affect your children?

My parents were poor for their entire lives, born to lower income parents with no higher education. Then they were poor until after their kids grew up, when they were finally able to save some for their retirement. So decades and decades of poverty, going back generations. How many years did you live “under the poverty line”?

20 years before I moved to the states - I am still affected by the malnutrition in my childhood. My 7 first years in the states, we lived with minimum incomes and didn't even have the right to work freely. More than half of our income then went to rent and my kid knew and grew up with that. So, I don't live that long in poverty as your parents but I know enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

Well, you also don't have any understanding of the experience of kids and families who have worked hard their entire life and got their opportunities stolen away. You made a senseless generalization that they are all well off and well educated families while most are not.

My problem is the current process does little to address the issue that you are talking about while stealing opportunities from other children from families who have worked hard for their kids' future. If the problem is the less educated parents then educate their parents, provide supports to those kids when they were still in elementary schools. Putting them in an environment that they are not ready for does nothing to solve their life problems.