TJ admissions change from Merit to Essay impact to Asian American Students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Keep the discussion going, I am collecting notes. This is gold right here. I will consider having DC memorize these sob stories and use them for next year's TJ admission essay when they apply.

I assume you are joking, since doing that would be telling your child to lie, unless you actually have been poor and uneducated for most of your life.

You dont understand. There are so many sob stories to reflect on in my ancestry. Who says i had to be poor or uneducated, when my grandfather went through excruciating distress, and the thought of his suffering still gives me nightmares thinking about the physical and mental harm he had to endure. I'll be sharing those factual episodes in great emotional detail with DC, who may chose to unload them into his TJ essay. The sob content is there in our family lineage, DC just needs guidance on crafting it into a moving passage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

Well, you also don't have any understanding of the experience of kids and families who have worked hard their entire life and got their opportunities stolen away. You made a senseless generalization that they are all well off and well educated families while most are not.

My problem is the current process does little to address the issue that you are talking about while stealing opportunities from other children from families who have worked hard for their kids' future. If the problem is the less educated parents then educate their parents, provide supports to those kids when they were still in elementary schools. Putting them in an environment that they are not ready for does nothing to solve their life problems.

I’m not sure who this “they” is you are talking about. No one is saying that all applicants are from well off and well educated families. Some are and some are not. All applicants should have the same chance at the possibility of a place at TJ, no matter where their families stand in terms of income and/or educational background.

No one is “stealing” opportunities from any children in this process. The whole idea is for *all* the children to have the same chance at the opportunity. Before, children from lower income and less educated families were being denied opportunities. Now there is a more fair process.

It’s too bad you appear to be unable to see that all the children should have the same shot at educational opportunities at a public school and that opportunities should not be afforded only to those whose parents know how to put their own children in a good position for those opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

Well, you also don't have any understanding of the experience of kids and families who have worked hard their entire life and got their opportunities stolen away. You made a senseless generalization that they are all well off and well educated families while most are not.

My problem is the current process does little to address the issue that you are talking about while stealing opportunities from other children from families who have worked hard for their kids' future. If the problem is the less educated parents then educate their parents, provide supports to those kids when they were still in elementary schools. Putting them in an environment that they are not ready for does nothing to solve their life problems.

I’m not sure who this “they” is you are talking about. No one is saying that all applicants are from well off and well educated families. Some are and some are not. All applicants should have the same chance at the possibility of a place at TJ, no matter where their families stand in terms of income and/or educational background.

No one is “stealing” opportunities from any children in this process. The whole idea is for *all* the children to have the same chance at the opportunity. Before, children from lower income and less educated families were being denied opportunities. Now there is a more fair process.

It’s too bad you appear to be unable to see that all the children should have the same shot at educational opportunities at a public school and that opportunities should not be afforded only to those whose parents know how to put their own children in a good position for those opportunities.

It's too bad for you and the educrats to think it's ok to step on long-standing merit-based system in academic and education to further your social belief. Not to mention, the new system that throws away most relevant information on applying students has turned TJ's freshman admissions into a shLtshow for even non-URM students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

Well, you also don't have any understanding of the experience of kids and families who have worked hard their entire life and got their opportunities stolen away. You made a senseless generalization that they are all well off and well educated families while most are not.

My problem is the current process does little to address the issue that you are talking about while stealing opportunities from other children from families who have worked hard for their kids' future. If the problem is the less educated parents then educate their parents, provide supports to those kids when they were still in elementary schools. Putting them in an environment that they are not ready for does nothing to solve their life problems.

I’m not sure who this “they” is you are talking about. No one is saying that all applicants are from well off and well educated families. Some are and some are not. All applicants should have the same chance at the possibility of a place at TJ, no matter where their families stand in terms of income and/or educational background.

No one is “stealing” opportunities from any children in this process. The whole idea is for *all* the children to have the same chance at the opportunity. Before, children from lower income and less educated families were being denied opportunities. Now there is a more fair process.

It’s too bad you appear to be unable to see that all the children should have the same shot at educational opportunities at a public school and that opportunities should not be afforded only to those whose parents know how to put their own children in a good position for those opportunities.

Some parents excel in raising athletic kids, while others excel in raising academic kids. The outcomes of these distinct parental focuses are evident in the corresponding areas at public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Of course, it's no coincidence that algebra 1 count went from 20+ in 2024 before admissions change to 160+ in the 2025 class, and the new class was declared as having more diversity.

"Compared to TJ Class of 2024, the proportion of students in Class of 2025 admitted with the minimal required math background of Algebra 1 in 8th grade increased sevenfold, from 4.5% to 31%"
https://www.fcag.org/documents/TJ_Class_of_2025_analysis.pdf

From Page 3: "Compared to previous years, there is a huge leap in the number of students taking Algebra 1 rather than higher level math. There were 161 students admitted who only had taken Algebra 1 In previous years, that number has been about 20 students ... "
It appears Algebr 1 criteria was used to sift out the 1140+ denied asian american applicants

Admissions are a secret process for a reason. Manipulate as needed first, and cook an explanation later.

The reason admissions processes are secret (by the way, the TJ Admissions process is WAY less opaque than it should be) is to prevent people from narrowly tailoring either their or their child's lives in pursuit of the acceptance letter.

Purely objective, rubric-based admissions processes result in dangerously homogenous admit populations. At TJ in the 2010s, that manifested itself in a hyper-competitive environment where you had too many kids who were trying to achieve the same goals along the same path when multiple paths were readily available. It was a deeply unhealthy environment and eventually resulted in TJ's first instances of suicide and a huge spike in self-harm.

They care about children's mental health while telling talented and hard-working kids who were treated unfairly to accept the results because "it is what it is", "there are not enough seats for everyone", "it will happen again with college admissions", etc. They should go Fxxk themselves.

There were never enough seats for all qualified applicants. They added 50 seats so more talented kids from across the county can have the opportunity.

Less talented, but have preferred skin color, is what news release shows along with percentages.

The biggest beneficiaries of the new process are low-income Asian applicants.

Are you saying they are preferred?

asian representation went 73% to 54%, were excluded from expanded quota.

And yet there is an almost record-high number of Asian students at TJ today.

Aside from 2020 & 2019, there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than any other year in the school’s history.



The number of Asian students enrolled at TJ by school year (fall):


The data also shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

But lower math algebra 1 students from worst fcps middle schools are being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose and level up to the advanced peers from top middle schools. How is that not inhumane mental abuse of innocent students?

You are making up problems here with the phrase “being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose.” Come on, that is a highly exaggerated metaphor.

And the truth is, many of those “advanced” peers do not have a good grasp of the fundamentals because they rushed through math couses too quickly to develop a truly strong understanding. Two different TJ math teachers, one in 2011 and one in 2014, told me about this problem, so well before the changes in the application process.

There is no “inhumane mental abuse of innocent students” going on here by giving students a fair shot at the limited places available at TJ, regardless of the income or educational level of their parents. Seriously.

Sorry. I must call this BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Why would they reject high math qualified applicants in favor of lower math applicants?

Racial quota

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Asian count remains more or less same, but the Asian percent has gone down?
Along with the admissions change, the total number of seats were expanded by 100 seats, but Asian students were solely excluded from participating in the expanded seat assignment. There are consistently 1200+ declined Asian applicants each year, largest among all ethnicities, and none of them are allowed to receive a single seat from the expanded seat quota.
discriminatory TJ admission policy

Unfair and illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Asian count remains more or less same, but the Asian percent has gone down?
Along with the admissions change, the total number of seats were expanded by 100 seats, but Asian students were solely excluded from participating in the expanded seat assignment. There are consistently 1200+ declined Asian applicants each year, largest among all ethnicities, and none of them are allowed to receive a single seat from the expanded seat quota.
discriminatory TJ admission policy

Unfair and illegal.

Lower income Asian students were the biggest by beneficiaries of the new process.
- Judges who ruled it was not illegal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Why would they reject high math qualified applicants in favor of lower math applicants?

Racial quota

The data also shows that Asian students were accepted at a higher rate than almost all other groups, aside from Hispanic students.

Asian 19%
Black 14%
Hispanic 21%
White 17%
Multiracial/Other* 13%
ALL 18%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Asian count remains more or less same, but the Asian percent has gone down?
Along with the admissions change, the total number of seats were expanded by 100 seats, but Asian students were solely excluded from participating in the expanded seat assignment. There are consistently 1200+ declined Asian applicants each year, largest among all ethnicities, and none of them are allowed to receive a single seat from the expanded seat quota.
discriminatory TJ admission policy

Unfair and illegal.

Under this lottery system, even regular admitted students are no longer the same. Feel like they want to scare away students who are committed and genuinely interested in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Asian count remains more or less same, but the Asian percent has gone down?
Along with the admissions change, the total number of seats were expanded by 100 seats, but Asian students were solely excluded from participating in the expanded seat assignment. There are consistently 1200+ declined Asian applicants each year, largest among all ethnicities, and none of them are allowed to receive a single seat from the expanded seat quota.
discriminatory TJ admission policy

Unfair and illegal.

Lower income Asian students were the biggest by beneficiaries of the new process.
- Judges who ruled it was not illegal

And they become the most discriminated against group the moment they get off the free school lunches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

But lower math algebra 1 students from worst fcps middle schools are being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose and level up to the advanced peers from top middle schools. How is that not inhumane mental abuse of innocent students?

You are making up problems here with the phrase “being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose.” Come on, that is a highly exaggerated metaphor.

And the truth is, many of those “advanced” peers do not have a good grasp of the fundamentals because they rushed through math couses too quickly to develop a truly strong understanding. Two different TJ math teachers, one in 2011 and one in 2014, told me about this problem, so well before the changes in the application process.

There is no “inhumane mental abuse of innocent students” going on here by giving students a fair shot at the limited places available at TJ, regardless of the income or educational level of their parents. Seriously.

Sorry. I must call this BS

Sadly, not at all BS. My family member who is a math professor says he sees this frequently. It is not at all unusual for kids who have taken advanced math classes at an early age to be able to get the answers right but not really have a firm understanding of the reasons why the answers are right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

Well, you also don't have any understanding of the experience of kids and families who have worked hard their entire life and got their opportunities stolen away. You made a senseless generalization that they are all well off and well educated families while most are not.

My problem is the current process does little to address the issue that you are talking about while stealing opportunities from other children from families who have worked hard for their kids' future. If the problem is the less educated parents then educate their parents, provide supports to those kids when they were still in elementary schools. Putting them in an environment that they are not ready for does nothing to solve their life problems.

I’m not sure who this “they” is you are talking about. No one is saying that all applicants are from well off and well educated families. Some are and some are not. All applicants should have the same chance at the possibility of a place at TJ, no matter where their families stand in terms of income and/or educational background.

No one is “stealing” opportunities from any children in this process. The whole idea is for *all* the children to have the same chance at the opportunity. Before, children from lower income and less educated families were being denied opportunities. Now there is a more fair process.

It’s too bad you appear to be unable to see that all the children should have the same shot at educational opportunities at a public school and that opportunities should not be afforded only to those whose parents know how to put their own children in a good position for those opportunities.

Some parents excel in raising athletic kids, while others excel in raising academic kids. The outcomes of these distinct parental focuses are evident in the corresponding areas at public schools.

It’s odd that you think that families see athletics and academics as opposed to one another. My family and many others see athletics and academics as complementary to each other: we see physical fitness as supporting and improving mental fitness.

My child who went to TJ was a three season athlete there, went on to a highly ranked and selective STEM school where he also played on a Division I team, and is now enjoying the early years of a rewarding STEM career. We knew a number of other kids at TJ who were also involved with athletics during their time at TJ and continued their sports in college. At least one participated in the Olympic trials for his sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NYT put together an interesting article that describes what FCPS did with the TJ admissions.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/09/upshot/affirmative-action-alternatives.html

It's behind a paywall but TLDR they made it so students from any school not just the wealthiest could access TJ.

Great- that’s as it should be. A public school needs to be available to all through a fair process in which wealth or education level of parents is not determinative.

I agree. I think the changes were a small step in the right direction, but I wish they'd do more. Upping the 1.5% to more like 2.5% to allow even broader opportunity while setting some baseline standards like requiring A's in Algebra seems modest. Most students will have completed Geometry or higher by 8th so this is a fairly low bar.

Yes, this move is worth considering.

I do think that part of the problem is that people who did not have parents with lower incomes and only a high school education, if that, simply can’t understand what it’s like to grow up in that kind of family situation.

I did grow up like that, so I get it. And the lower family income is not the worst of it, it’s that less educated parents simply don’t know what they don’t know. They can be trying their best, but frequently they just have no idea what to do to help a very bright child. My parents did try, but they were simply unaware of the resources that were out there.

I “lucked out” because I qualified for a national program as a junior in high school. Suddenly, the teachers and guidance counselors, who all seemed quite surprised that a kid like me would qualify for this program, became very interested in helping me with college applications. Even without that, I was still way behind in the types of opportunities that other kids had been provided with all through their school years.

This is why I care so much about TJ being a possibility for kids from less well-off and educated family situations: I want those kids to have opportunities that they might not otherwise be able to access.

Great. Now if you can only get them to study like a TJ student.

What is the point of being educated if that person is cold, has no compassion, no comment sense - like you?

Well, obviously the system that prioritized you has not educated you enough to have some compassion for children who were treated unfairly and a common sense that "stealing opportunities from more deserving people is a bad thing"

I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re trying to say here, but do you understand that kids with well off and educated parents will always have more opportunities than kids without those advantages?

You appear to be one of the people alluded to above who can’t understand what life is like for people whose lives are different from yours.

I am talking as an immigrant living under the poverty line for many years. You obviously can't understand those who, not like you, were treated unfairly by the system. Very far from your senseless generalization, many kids who have been rejected by the system are not from "well off" families. Many have just reached the middle-income status very recently. The only difference is they have been taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families. That's why they study and perform rather than expecting handouts from the system.

So, if your children have parents who are lower income and less educated, what is your problem with the application process? It’s giving your child(ren) the same chance as other children from similar families.

It sounds as though you agree that applicants should all be treated fairly, with no advantage to kids whose families have more money and better educated parents than others.

At the same time, you appear to be saying that applicants from families with less well off and less well educated parents somehow are not “taught the value of hard work and understand the sacrifices of their families.” What’s that all about? As someone who is from a family with parents with lower income and no college education, I can tell you that lower income people are among the hardest workers there are, and their kids see that from an early age. Again, you seem to have very little understanding of people who have different experiences than you have had.

But lower math algebra 1 students from worst fcps middle schools are being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose and level up to the advanced peers from top middle schools. How is that not inhumane mental abuse of innocent students?

You are making up problems here with the phrase “being forced to drink from the TJ rigor fire hose.” Come on, that is a highly exaggerated metaphor.

And the truth is, many of those “advanced” peers do not have a good grasp of the fundamentals because they rushed through math couses too quickly to develop a truly strong understanding. Two different TJ math teachers, one in 2011 and one in 2014, told me about this problem, so well before the changes in the application process.

There is no “inhumane mental abuse of innocent students” going on here by giving students a fair shot at the limited places available at TJ, regardless of the income or educational level of their parents. Seriously.

Sorry. I must call this BS

Sadly, not at all BS. My family member who is a math professor says he sees this frequently. It is not at all unusual for kids who have taken advanced math classes at an early age to be able to get the answers right but not really have a firm understanding of the reasons why the answers are right.

According to TJ math teachers, current students are providing quiz responses in two distinct forms: one with correct answer, and the other in essay format with life experiences blended in.