FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

Actually amazed AAP centers are still around, clearly not consistent with the move to equity.

The notion has been that, in certain areas, you needed AAP centers to make sure there was a "critical mass" of LLIV-eligible kids.

If they propose to get rid of AAP centers in some parts of the county, you might hear people raising the "critical mass" issue and saying they should retain AAP centers like Belvedere and Springfield Estates. In other parts of the county, it would be less of an issue.

This is exactly the reason centers should stay. Most schools don't have enough qualified students to make up a full class locally.

The most vocal opponents of centers want to scrap AAP altogether (because their kid didn't get in and their feelings got hurt by classmates who did get in). Getting rid of the centers is just the first step.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

Actually amazed AAP centers are still around, clearly not consistent with the move to equity.

The notion has been that, in certain areas, you needed AAP centers to make sure there was a "critical mass" of LLIV-eligible kids.

If they propose to get rid of AAP centers in some parts of the county, you might hear people raising the "critical mass" issue and saying they should retain AAP centers like Belvedere and Springfield Estates. In other parts of the county, it would be less of an issue.

This is exactly the reason centers should stay. Most schools don't have enough qualified students to make up a full class locally.

The most vocal opponents of centers want to scrap AAP altogether (because their kid didn't get in and their feelings got hurt by classmates who did get in). Getting rid of the centers is just the first step.

GT, maybe. AAP. NO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

Actually amazed AAP centers are still around, clearly not consistent with the move to equity.

The notion has been that, in certain areas, you needed AAP centers to make sure there was a "critical mass" of LLIV-eligible kids.

If they propose to get rid of AAP centers in some parts of the county, you might hear people raising the "critical mass" issue and saying they should retain AAP centers like Belvedere and Springfield Estates. In other parts of the county, it would be less of an issue.

This is exactly the reason centers should stay. Most schools don't have enough qualified students to make up a full class locally.

The most vocal opponents of centers want to scrap AAP altogether (because their kid didn't get in and their feelings got hurt by classmates who did get in). Getting rid of the centers is just the first step.

Removing centers would make it much more likely. We chose to stay local. There is a total of 10 level IV kids and the rest of the class is filled with level III's or other. If the 4 or 5 kids that choose to go to the center stayed we would be much closer to a full class of level IV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about this data:

https://mvonthemove.com/fcps-pauses-plans-for-montessori-program-at-bucknell-es/


"Of particular concern to PTA members was language in the grant proposal that struck them as “derogatory” and “racially inflammatory.” According to excerpts of the proposal posted on the Nextdoor website, MSAP funds would be used to “desegregate the school” — language that is also used on the Education Department’s MSAP grant website — through a lottery-based process, though students already zoned for the school could remain there. The lottery-based slots would be marketed to “non-Hispanic, non-socioeconomically disadvantaged students from both the feeder schools and within the community, targeting families with young children who would typically send their student to private early childhood education centers.”"

I think we all know what the boundary study is supposed to do.

Bucknell Montessori magnet is back! It's a 5 year grant and then after 5 years? Meanwhile all boundaries are under review except Dunne's? Typical nonsense from that magisterial district. https://mvonthemove.com/bucknell-elementary-decides-to-add-montessori-program-option-after-all/

Time to spreadsheet capacity and membership for lots of elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did not properly order this in prior post.

You don't need "critical mass." You just need teachers who plan for all children. I guarantee you, that, even in an AAP class, the kids are not all on--or even near--the same level. Good grief--what do you think all the "twice exceptional" kids are doing there? Of course, some have needs that are acceptable in an AAP classroom, but most are not able to keep up. When a child needs "extra time" to complete a project, do you really think the class is moving at a faster pace?
Ask any teacher at an AAP center--I guarantee you that some in GenEd are achieving as high as some in AAP.

When you have kids who are illterate and do not speak English, you are tasking teachers with the impossible, to prepare leveled lessons for everyone from the newly arrived illegal immigrant through the kids with the 150 IQ and a heavy dose of aspergers, along with all the 504 and IEP work they do.

AAP should not be elimimated.

Every pyramid should have a center elementary school.

Every middle school should have AAP, using the Irving model. Centers should be eliminated at the middle school level so no middle schoolers attend schools outside of their high school pyramid.

Fixing this is way more of a priority than county wide rezoning, middle school start times, and certainly more important than moving 6th grade to middle school so reid can add preK to all elementary schools.

DP. Centers should be eliminated at the elementary level, too. No one is claiming each teacher should be handling multiple levels in his/her classroom. The point of flexible grouping is that Teacher A takes the advanced kids for a given subject, Teacher B takes the grade-level kids, Teacher C takes the remedial kids. And this goes for every core class, so the teachers might switch levels depending on subject. And if there was a tiny GT program in each school for kids who were *actually gifted* - like there was for many decades - then those kids would be covered too.

AAP centers should be a thing of the past - FCPS needs to chalk them up as a huge, inequitable failure. They should have stuck with the GT model and flexible groupings instead.

The original GT model was not a "tiny GT program in each school." It was a center-based model, but far fewer kids participated. Springfield Estates was one of the first, if not the first, schools in FCPS where GT kids were sent.

I attended FCPS from K-12 in the mid-80s. There was indeed a tiny GT program in each school. It was not "center-based." And no one resented the kids who were chosen for GT because they were absolutely gifted and in need of specialized instruction. Everyone else did very well with flexible groupings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this thread needs to be hijacked simply so people with strong views about AAP can express them yet again.

The relevance, however, is that current boundaries in many cases have been drawn to reflect whether ES and MS are AAP centers. Do away with AAP centers and you may need to adjust boundaries to deal with former AAP centers that become under-enrolled or other schools that get overcrowded.

If they go through a "comprehensive" boundary review without addressing the future of AAP, it would appear they are locking themselves into the current AAP model until the next county-wide review in five years or so. It's unfortunate that they could be backing into decisions without actually addressing them on the merits first.

Agreed. There's no point in changing any boundaries before they decide what to do with AAP centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The original GT model was not a "tiny GT program in each school." It was a center-based model, but far fewer kids participated. Springfield Estates was one of the first, if not the first, schools in FCPS where GT kids were sent.

These kids were truly gifted. AAP is not the same. The idea was kind of like the old TJ model. The kids learned quickly and moved much faster. There may have been speech therapy, but there were no other special needs.

Though, I have never understood how it was okay to pull out gifted kids into a "special class," but we had to mainstream the other end of the spectrum with our GenEd kids.

Get rid of centers. Smart kids will still be smart. If we can "mainstream" struggling students, we can certainly mainstream high achievers.

DP. I can't agree with this enough. So well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this thread needs to be hijacked simply so people with strong views about AAP can express them yet again.

The relevance, however, is that current boundaries in many cases have been drawn to reflect whether ES and MS are AAP centers. Do away with AAP centers and you may need to adjust boundaries to deal with former AAP centers that become under-enrolled or other schools that get overcrowded.

If they go through a "comprehensive" boundary review without addressing the future of AAP, it would appear they are locking themselves into the current AAP model until the next county-wide review in five years or so. It's unfortunate that they could be backing into decisions without actually addressing them on the merits first.

And frankly, students at poorer performing schools appear to be using these opportunities to go elsewhere. I don’t begrudge those families for making those decisions, but it’s bonkers that they’re looking to move others into those spots rather than having the students in the current pyramids return. Get rid of AAP Centers and IB, and capacity issues largely disappear.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The original GT model was not a "tiny GT program in each school." It was a center-based model, but far fewer kids participated. Springfield Estates was one of the first, if not the first, schools in FCPS where GT kids were sent.

These kids were truly gifted. AAP is not the same. The idea was kind of like the old TJ model. The kids learned quickly and moved much faster. There may have been speech therapy, but there were no other special needs.

Though, I have never understood how it was okay to pull out gifted kids into a "special class," but we had to mainstream the other end of the spectrum with our GenEd kids.

Get rid of centers. Smart kids will still be smart. If we can "mainstream" struggling students, we can certainly mainstream high achievers.

This doesn't work either. It sort of works at the lower elementary level and FCPS pretends it works in middle school because no one is allowed to be retained and everyone is encouraged to try an Honors level course even if they can't handle it. The truth comes out by 9th grade. A 14 year old who can't add two digit numbers and who is reading at a K or 1st grade level shouldn't be mainstreamed. High schools straight up track students by ability and it's more beneficial for everyone.

DP. This is true to, so it seems the only fair solution is this: if advanced learners are to be pulled out of mainstream classes for separate instruction, then remedial/SPED/ELL should *also* be pulled out into separate classrooms. As the PP said, it's not ok to leave the kids with deep learning issues in with the GenEd kids. GenEd kids deserve just as much targeted learning as AAP kids are getting, without the distractions of kids who need aides and intervention.

[Anonymous]

^^ too not to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving all the AAP kids from Franklin at Carson back to Franklin would immediately overcrowd Franklin. Rocky Run's very small base boundaries also reflect the fact that it's pulled AAP kids from other pyramids.

Or maybe they will shift some boundaries and send kids to stone or Herndon?

No. That would not be necessary.

Plenty of AAP kids would remain at Carson: I'm not positive, but I think: Coates; McNair; Floris; Fox Mill; Crossfield; and, Navy? I think the only ones that would go back to Franklin would be Oak Hill and Lees Corner. That would not overcrowd Franklin. The center at Oak Hill said it had 180 kids last year (according to the profile.) That would put, maybe 90? back to Franklin.
I'm not sure where Navy feeds. It may be Franklin rather than Carson, so it could mean more kids at Franklin.

273 students transferred from Franklin to Carson this year.

The above posts are a prime example of just how convoluted the whole AAP center nonsense is. No one even knows how many students are assigned to the BASE schools. AAP centers need to end, and everyone needs to return to their base school. Only then should new boundaries be redrawn, based on those numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If kids at Lewis are forbidden from transferring, that will affect all students across FCPS from transferring. Not for language, not for STEM programs, nothing. Because you can't forbid one school district from doing something and then okay it with others.

And that's really not going to solve the problem of the fact that this county has segregated itself -- primarily because of parents who buy into the fear that their children will not learn if their kids go to school with non-English speakers.

That's a pretty interesting fear. I don't know what will fix your thinking, to be honest. Maybe read accounts of parents whose children went through de-segretation efforts after Brown v. Board of Education? American has a history of working to integrate school systems, so what the FCPS school board is doing is along the lines of our country's history. We don't segregate. We shouldn't have school systems where all the predominately white, wealthy, English-speaking kids go. If that bothers you, again, I'd recommend reading a history book or enrolling your child in private school.

AAP centers are a prime example of segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

Actually amazed AAP centers are still around, clearly not consistent with the move to equity.

The notion has been that, in certain areas, you needed AAP centers to make sure there was a "critical mass" of LLIV-eligible kids.

If they propose to get rid of AAP centers in some parts of the county, you might hear people raising the "critical mass" issue and saying they should retain AAP centers like Belvedere and Springfield Estates. In other parts of the county, it would be less of an issue.

This is exactly the reason centers should stay. Most schools don't have enough qualified students to make up a full class locally.

The most vocal opponents of centers want to scrap AAP altogether (because their kid didn't get in and their feelings got hurt by classmates who did get in). Getting rid of the centers is just the first step.

DP. I actually had one kid in AAP and another in Gen Ed. They both attended the center school since it was also our base school. The Gen Ed kids were treated abysmally by many of the AAP kids, even those they had been friends with prior to the start of 3rd grade, segregated AAP. My AAP student didn't get some kind of magical curriculum - our Gen Ed kid was perfectly able to do all the same work at home. It was a ridiculous exercise in - yes - segregating and labeling kids. I would be all for getting rid of AAP centers. As other posters have said, flexible groupings for all kids, as well as a very small and selective GT program in each school is the way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

Actually amazed AAP centers are still around, clearly not consistent with the move to equity.

The notion has been that, in certain areas, you needed AAP centers to make sure there was a "critical mass" of LLIV-eligible kids.

If they propose to get rid of AAP centers in some parts of the county, you might hear people raising the "critical mass" issue and saying they should retain AAP centers like Belvedere and Springfield Estates. In other parts of the county, it would be less of an issue.

This is exactly the reason centers should stay. Most schools don't have enough qualified students to make up a full class locally.

The most vocal opponents of centers want to scrap AAP altogether (because their kid didn't get in and their feelings got hurt by classmates who did get in). Getting rid of the centers is just the first step.

GT, maybe. AAP. NO.

+1
Most Gen Ed kids completely overlap with AAP kids. It's absurd to divide them up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When you have kids who are illterate and do not speak English, you are tasking teachers with the impossible, to prepare leveled lessons for everyone from the newly arrived illegal immigrant through the kids with the 150 IQ and a heavy dose of aspergers, along with all the 504 and IEP work they do.

In the primary grades, the kids generally pick up the language very quickly. (I've been a teacher in this situation.)

In the upper levels, you don't understand that having illiterate, non-English speaking kids is an issue for GenEd?

I agree that the non-English speaking, illeterate kids are an issue. It needs to be addressed in another way, but AAP kids don't deserve better than GenEd.

We don't need centers.

+100
Honestly, it’s clear some of these posters (no doubt AAP parents) think it’s just fine to stick non-English speakers and SPED kids in the GenEd classrooms - as long as their kids don’t have to deal with them. It’s NOT okay. Plenty of Gen Ed kids are just as bright and capable as their AAP peers. They do deserve better, as you said. They deserve a learning experience that is just as targeted to their skills and abilities as the AAP kids receive.

Nope.

The issue is that it is illegal by federal law to put those ESL kids in self contained classrooms. ESL students must be mainstreamed into the regular classrooms with all the other students, with very rare exception.

I am no fan of FCPS right now, but their hands are tied on this one, especially at the elementary level, but also at high schools like Lewis. The ESL elementary kids cannot be placed anywhere but the regular classes, and the ESL high school students cannot be shuffled off to an alternative school simply because they don't speak or write English. Not only that, schools must allow these ESL speakers to remain as students in our 9th-12th grade high schools and 7th to12th grade secondary schools (soon to include 6th graders if Reid gets her way) until they turn 21 years old. Yes, you can have a 20 year old ESL man who turns 21 mid year, in your secondary school with your 12 year old 7th grader. Again, federal law, written for a different time with different immigration.

In contrast, it is perfectly legal to segregate the advanced kids. It can even be required by state law if the kids fall under the "gifted" classification of special ed.

FCPS has a higher proportion of extremely educated and high IQ parents, combined with significant affluence of most of its population, and a higher asian population than most of the country. Of course we have a disproportionally high gifted population. We have the high IQ trifecta of wealth, high education levels and IQs of the moms, and lots of asians.

If you hate the AAP model and don't want to have ESL kids in the mainstream classes, then you need to work to change state and federal education laws, not blaming the AAP parents and kids, particularly the kids who fall into the highly and profoundly gifted range, and not blaming the ESL kids, who are placed where federal law requirestgem to be placed. By the way, the highly and profoundly gifted kids might shock you, because quite often, those kids often have behavioral problems like ADHD, or have very difficult personalities that are far from the model students, who are usually well behaved, mature, driven girls with pleaser personalities. If you stick labels on which kids you think are "actually gifted" you would probably be wrong on at least half of them. "Truly gifted" kids often struggle in school. That is one of the reasons why gifted programs fall under special ed.

The ESL laws were written for a different times, when we had reasonable levels of immigration and not wide open borders, sanctuary counties, and universal basic income programs like FCPS started last year for specific zip codes. When immigration was managed well, it made sense to have the handful of non English speaking students in an immersion model in the mainstream classroom. But the reasonable immigration ship left the port 4 years ago, so here we are. FCPS has to follow the law on this one. If you don't like it, lobby Connolly to change the law. Talking to Connolly about this issue sounds like a complete joke given his views on the subject, but it really is your only option if you want the classroom placement to change. The laws need to be updated, sanctuary policies dropped, and border fixed. Otherwise, you need to find a way to work within the law, which unfortunately might mean moving to a reasonable district, moving to a school like Robinson that is unlikely to be rezoned, or putting your kids in private.