APS: Think the "no move" campaign is going to work?

[Anonymous]

McKinley teachers are smart enough to stay out of this tussle (or were told to stay neutral).

As a McKinley mom (likely to be zoned to a school besides Reed), I am embarrassed by the behavior of several fellow PTA moms (and neighborhood friends), truly cringe-worthy. Most of the McKinley parents I know expressed initial concerns (overcrowding) and stepped back. We will focus our energy on rezoning initiatives by and making sure our "new school" can handle the load of new, incoming students without trailers.

[Anonymous]

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They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Yes, I was asking how effective the outreach was for this specific effort.

How many different communities are now engaged and what are their thoughts?

Do people not realize that things cost money? And that money doesn't grow on trees?

Translators in a dozen languages for every public meeting costs money. Buses to immersion schools and dual-certified teachers cost money. Maternity leave for teachers costs money. Surveys cost money. Summer school costs money. Small class sizes cost money. More counselors costs money.

APS has added the equivalent of two elementary schools, or a whole middle school, or half a high school EVERY YEAR for the last 8 years, and the cost of those students is cumulative, and people keep acting like we can spend money on any administrative or supportive activity we want.

I don't know what planet (or what rich city with neverending resources) these people came here from, but I wish they'd go back.

This, plus- if I relocate my family to a country where my native language is spoken by a tiny minority of people, I shouldn’t expect translation services to be offered free of charge on top of the free education my kids are receiving. If my opinion isn’t heard because I don’t speak their language, that’s not a human rights violation.

what's the point in hiring translators if the people needing the services don't show up?

Did they show up?

This line of questioning is off topic. Maybe start a different thread where this can be on topic and those interested can discuss it.

It is exactly on-topic. The topic is the Elementary School Planning and there has been a great deal already heard from the Key community and the impacts to their EL community.

I'd like to hear from other EL groups - don't you? Do they support "no move"?

Are you from Key?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Yes, I was asking how effective the outreach was for this specific effort.

How many different communities are now engaged and what are their thoughts?

Do people not realize that things cost money? And that money doesn't grow on trees?

Translators in a dozen languages for every public meeting costs money. Buses to immersion schools and dual-certified teachers cost money. Maternity leave for teachers costs money. Surveys cost money. Summer school costs money. Small class sizes cost money. More counselors costs money.

APS has added the equivalent of two elementary schools, or a whole middle school, or half a high school EVERY YEAR for the last 8 years, and the cost of those students is cumulative, and people keep acting like we can spend money on any administrative or supportive activity we want.

I don't know what planet (or what rich city with neverending resources) these people came here from, but I wish they'd go back.

Uh....ok? They didn't translate a dozen languages. A few targeted languages (Amharic, Arabic, Mongolian, Spanish).

I did come from an area that prioritized spending on education. Very disappointed with what I've seen in VA.

Are you implying that Arlington doesn’t spent A LOT on education?

Not compared to other school systems in the Northeast.

Based on those comparisons, how much do you think Arlington should be spending on a per pupil basis? How much are those school systems you referenced spending?

Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like to discuss public school funding. Seems like you're more worried about that than school moves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McKinley teachers are smart enough to stay out of this tussle (or were told to stay neutral).

As a McKinley mom (likely to be zoned to a school besides Reed), I am embarrassed by the behavior of several fellow PTA moms (and neighborhood friends), truly cringe-worthy. Most of the McKinley parents I know expressed initial concerns (overcrowding) and stepped back. We will focus our energy on rezoning initiatives by and making sure our "new school" can handle the load of new, incoming students without trailers.

+100

I'm in the same boat as the PP and spoke with a friend who works at the school. She has no interest speaking out on either side of the issue. She was shocked that some professionals at other schools were being so vocal on social media. I wish the map McK people would stand down. I also wish they'd stop talking with McK will ever be the same anyway with most of the school leaving regardless of outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Yes, I was asking how effective the outreach was for this specific effort.

How many different communities are now engaged and what are their thoughts?

Do people not realize that things cost money? And that money doesn't grow on trees?

Translators in a dozen languages for every public meeting costs money. Buses to immersion schools and dual-certified teachers cost money. Maternity leave for teachers costs money. Surveys cost money. Summer school costs money. Small class sizes cost money. More counselors costs money.

APS has added the equivalent of two elementary schools, or a whole middle school, or half a high school EVERY YEAR for the last 8 years, and the cost of those students is cumulative, and people keep acting like we can spend money on any administrative or supportive activity we want.

I don't know what planet (or what rich city with neverending resources) these people came here from, but I wish they'd go back.

This, plus- if I relocate my family to a country where my native language is spoken by a tiny minority of people, I shouldn’t expect translation services to be offered free of charge on top of the free education my kids are receiving. If my opinion isn’t heard because I don’t speak their language, that’s not a human rights violation.

what's the point in hiring translators if the people needing the services don't show up?

Did they show up?

This line of questioning is off topic. Maybe start a different thread where this can be on topic and those interested can discuss it.

It is exactly on-topic. The topic is the Elementary School Planning and there has been a great deal already heard from the Key community and the impacts to their EL community.

I'd like to hear from other EL groups - don't you? Do they support "no move"?

Are you from Key?

You’re not likely to hear from other EL groups here. You’re barking up the wrong tree. I suspect you realize that, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Yes, I was asking how effective the outreach was for this specific effort.

How many different communities are now engaged and what are their thoughts?

Do people not realize that things cost money? And that money doesn't grow on trees?

Translators in a dozen languages for every public meeting costs money. Buses to immersion schools and dual-certified teachers cost money. Maternity leave for teachers costs money. Surveys cost money. Summer school costs money. Small class sizes cost money. More counselors costs money.

APS has added the equivalent of two elementary schools, or a whole middle school, or half a high school EVERY YEAR for the last 8 years, and the cost of those students is cumulative, and people keep acting like we can spend money on any administrative or supportive activity we want.

I don't know what planet (or what rich city with neverending resources) these people came here from, but I wish they'd go back.

Uh....ok? They didn't translate a dozen languages. A few targeted languages (Amharic, Arabic, Mongolian, Spanish).

I did come from an area that prioritized spending on education. Very disappointed with what I've seen in VA.

Are you implying that Arlington doesn’t spent A LOT on education?

Not compared to other school systems in the Northeast.

Based on those comparisons, how much do you think Arlington should be spending on a per pupil basis? How much are those school systems you referenced spending?

Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like to discuss public school funding. Seems like you're more worried about that than school moves.

I’m asking pp to substantiate her claim. If you have an issue with this, perhaps you should direct it to the person who first raised the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Yes, I was asking how effective the outreach was for this specific effort.

How many different communities are now engaged and what are their thoughts?

Do people not realize that things cost money? And that money doesn't grow on trees?

Translators in a dozen languages for every public meeting costs money. Buses to immersion schools and dual-certified teachers cost money. Maternity leave for teachers costs money. Surveys cost money. Summer school costs money. Small class sizes cost money. More counselors costs money.

APS has added the equivalent of two elementary schools, or a whole middle school, or half a high school EVERY YEAR for the last 8 years, and the cost of those students is cumulative, and people keep acting like we can spend money on any administrative or supportive activity we want.

I don't know what planet (or what rich city with neverending resources) these people came here from, but I wish they'd go back.

Uh....ok? They didn't translate a dozen languages. A few targeted languages (Amharic, Arabic, Mongolian, Spanish).

I did come from an area that prioritized spending on education. Very disappointed with what I've seen in VA.

Are you implying that Arlington doesn’t spent A LOT on education?

Not compared to other school systems in the Northeast.

Based on those comparisons, how much do you think Arlington should be spending on a per pupil basis? How much are those school systems you referenced spending?

Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like to discuss public school funding. Seems like you're more worried about that than school moves.

I’m asking pp to substantiate her claim. If you have an issue with this, perhaps you should direct it to the person who first raised the issue.

I bolded the first comment about school budgets/funding:
"Do people not realize that things cost money? ....."

Again, happy to discuss on another thread - go start one.

[Anonymous]

In other words, you have no support for your school funding criticism. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your reminder to write a quick email to Engage and the School Board if you want them to vote yes on school moves. You know these clowns are trying to snow them with fake info all day every day.

Um, no, I was told that this particular issue is one in which white parents in Arlington are called upon to amplify the voices of parents of color. Who are all in agreement that Key should stay, as that is best for the brown children of Arlington. ALL OF THEM.

Is this satire?

Has to be.

The bit about "white parents in Arlington are called upon" is a quote from AEM. The rest is presumed.

Also note that we are being asked to take the word of a bunch of white parents, and one minority teacher- all of whom have a personal stake in this- that they speak for 'families of color.' We should take this over the views of our black bilingual superintendent who has a system wide view, and who started an immersion school (Claremont.)

I wish we could hear directly from the different EL communities around the county.

+1 I think the only reference I've seen to actually asking the ESOL community what they want in regard to immersion was staff said at some point that they talked with Spanish-speakers about why they didn't apply to immersion and the main reasons were location and wanting their kids in an predominantly English school. The fact that Claremont apparently isn't having trouble filling their Spanish-first quota and Key is points to the importance of proximity. Key likes to complain that it's all because of poor outreach by APS in the switch from neighborhood preference + lottery to lottery only but Claremont did the same thing and doesn't have a problem. Clearly, Key's location is an issue but the "Key Key" group won't admit that.

Why is staff meeting in closed sessions with "some" groups and not others? Shouldn't the McKinley PTA get the same from the staff that the ESOL community is getting?

The comment on this I'm referring to was a while ago not specifically in reaction to the current moves but was mentioned as affecting thinking over the summer about school locations.

And, FWIW, they did have an open public meeting at Kenmore in Spanish to gather feedback on the current proposal.

And what about the other EL communities? I know there were translators at some events. Was anyone from those communities able to attend? Did they even know about them?

It was an open meeting. What do you mean by other EL communities?

That open public meeting was in Spanish. What about other non-Spanish EL communities? Were they able to use the translators at any of the public events?

They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Yes, I was asking how effective the outreach was for this specific effort.

How many different communities are now engaged and what are their thoughts?

Do you really expect someone on DCUM to answer that?

I'm concerned about non-Spanish EL communities, aren't you?

And, yes, there are people from all over the community on DCUM. There is a chance that someone is tuned into what is happening.

How about you put in some time yourself and go talk with staff directly to find out? Whatever anyone here says, you'll have a gripe or find fault or dismiss because it doesn't fit what you need the response to be in order to be justified and right.

So that's a no - you aren't interested in the non-Spanish EL communities? Are you from Key?

Not from Key. Now, repeat my previous response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is your reminder to write a quick email to Engage and the School Board if you want them to vote yes on school moves. You know these clowns are trying to snow them with fake info all day every day.

Um, no, I was told that this particular issue is one in which white parents in Arlington are called upon to amplify the voices of parents of color. Who are all in agreement that Key should stay, as that is best for the brown children of Arlington. ALL OF THEM.

Is this satire?

Has to be.

The bit about "white parents in Arlington are called upon" is a quote from AEM. The rest is presumed.

Also note that we are being asked to take the word of a bunch of white parents, and one minority teacher- all of whom have a personal stake in this- that they speak for 'families of color.' We should take this over the views of our black bilingual superintendent who has a system wide view, and who started an immersion school (Claremont.)

I wish we could hear directly from the different EL communities around the county.

+1 I think the only reference I've seen to actually asking the ESOL community what they want in regard to immersion was staff said at some point that they talked with Spanish-speakers about why they didn't apply to immersion and the main reasons were location and wanting their kids in an predominantly English school. The fact that Claremont apparently isn't having trouble filling their Spanish-first quota and Key is points to the importance of proximity. Key likes to complain that it's all because of poor outreach by APS in the switch from neighborhood preference + lottery to lottery only but Claremont did the same thing and doesn't have a problem. Clearly, Key's location is an issue but the "Key Key" group won't admit that.

Why is staff meeting in closed sessions with "some" groups and not others? Shouldn't the McKinley PTA get the same from the staff that the ESOL community is getting?

The comment on this I'm referring to was a while ago not specifically in reaction to the current moves but was mentioned as affecting thinking over the summer about school locations.

And, FWIW, they did have an open public meeting at Kenmore in Spanish to gather feedback on the current proposal.

And what about the other EL communities? I know there were translators at some events. Was anyone from those communities able to attend? Did they even know about them?

It was an open meeting. What do you mean by other EL communities?

That open public meeting was in Spanish. What about other non-Spanish EL communities? Were they able to use the translators at any of the public events?

They had meetings translated into 4 different languages. I don't recall which ones. APS' community engagement outreach efforts to under-represented groups has continued to increase and this process has probably been the most-encompassing to date. They also meet with groups in schools throughout the year for various reasons, not just during a proposal feedback period.

Watch the Kenmore Spanish meeting. Key teachers overwhelmingly spoke for the group, not parents. A couple of parents provide prepared comments.

If you ask APS staff, they will tell you that they prefer to talk with parents directly. Messages through other people often are not the same as directly from parents.

+1000
Staff had to pull parents away and talk with them away from the main group because of the inappropriate domination of the meeting by the Key teachers who have no right to impede input from the actual community. APS seeks input from within separately from the community engagement process. It's not like they don't have the opportunity to give input or feedback.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some very good questions being asked in those AEM posts, I’ll be interested to see if the McKinley people have responses.

Seems they are unable to respond when confronted with their data errors.

Seriously, there are some deafening crickets in response to the number-crunching posts.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, I was at the meeting at Central Library and there were a bunch of Mongolian-speakers there, availing themselves of the translation services. I don't think the Spanish and Amharic translators were needed, but I saw them there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some very good questions being asked in those AEM posts, I’ll be interested to see if the McKinley people have responses.

Seems they are unable to respond when confronted with their data errors.

Seriously, there are some deafening crickets in response to the number-crunching posts.

And apparently only care about their low income population. No response to the question about the low income population who live near key but don’t attend the school and how this will impact them.


Just bitching about “why are choice programs always the ones getting the short end of the stick”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some very good questions being asked in those AEM posts, I’ll be interested to see if the McKinley people have responses.

Seems they are unable to respond when confronted with their data errors.

Seriously, there are some deafening crickets in response to the number-crunching posts.

And apparently only care about their low income population. No response to the question about the low income population who live near key but don’t attend the school and how this will impact them.


Just bitching about “why are choice programs always the ones getting the short end of the stick”

Also no response on what their proposal would do to Barrett.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some very good questions being asked in those AEM posts, I’ll be interested to see if the McKinley people have responses.

Seems they are unable to respond when confronted with their data errors.

Seriously, there are some deafening crickets in response to the number-crunching posts.

And apparently only care about their low income population. No response to the question about the low income population who live near key but don’t attend the school and how this will impact them.


Just bitching about “why are choice programs always the ones getting the short end of the stick”

Also no response on what their proposal would do to Barrett.

Oh wait now we are going back to attacking the people asking reasonable questions! Good times! I for one can’t wait until we have a presidential election and boundary change process at the same time. I’m already stocking up on wine and popcorn for that one.