Jesus' Historicity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on that “secular” historian list.

Look at the reference list.

The first person listed is Ehrman so clearly not a list of secular historians.

He's agnostic.

Aside from questioning the supernatural aspects later in life, he’s about as Christian as you can get. Evangelical. Wheaton. Seminary school. New Testament scholar.

Not secular. Not an unbiased historian.

Give us the list of secular historians you believe are unbiased.

For starters, the ones who didn’t study theology and go seminary school. The ones who don’t use the Bible as their primary source.

Who? Give us their names please? You have avoided naming these professionals for pages/days. You just keep repeating the same comment over and over again like a bot or troll.

Which professionals? Are there any real historians who have analyzed this? Maybe they couldn’t find enough unbiased evidence to publish one way or another.

It's hard to keep track of who is responding to who, but I can tell when it's time for an intelligent person to take his ball and go home, realizing you're discussing with someone who is determined to always have the last word so he can declare victory, and does so not through reasoned discussion or critiques but a nah nah nah fingers in ears rejection of everything. It's boring and tiresome. Go ahead and have the last word. Shriek hysterically that nothing is still proven while ignoring the questions actually asked of you. Good luck.

You may be intelligent - good at math or maybe have a photogenic memory or something, but if you believe in God, you're dumb about that. Maybe you like the idea of living forever. I can see why. It sounds good to me too, but I know it's not realistic.

Historical, brilliant giants like Newton,
Pascal, Kepler, Galileo, Boyle, and Mendel were devout. Modern examples: Francis Collins (led Human Genome Project, evangelical Christian); John Polkinghorne (particle physicist turned Anglican priest); Arthur Peacocke (biochemist, Anglican priest); Nobel winners like Arno Penzias (physics, theist), William Phillips (physics, Methodist), or Gerhard Ertl (chemistry, Christian).

From 1901-2000, ~65% of Nobel laureates in sciences identified as Christian (or had Christian background), ~20% Jewish (many secular, but some theistic), and only ~10% atheists/agnostics overall (Shalev, 2003). Disbelief is higher in literature/peace categories.

Intelligence doesn’t dictate atheism or theism. Smart people land on both sides because God’s existence isn’t a settled empirical fact like gravity—it’s philosophical/metaphysical.

Eternal life does sound good. Whether it’s realistic is the real debate, not whether wishing for it makes someone foolish.

I wish for eternal life too. I just know it's not gonna happen. It doesn't happen to any other living thing (like our beloved dogs and cats that we "put to sleep"), and it's not gonna happen to me, whether or not I'm religious and believe that I'll live forever with God in Heaven. I'm lucky to be alive and healthy right now.

Other people believe differently than you, and they have just as much right to their beliefs as you do yours.

They may have a right to their beliefs. They dont have a right to impose those beliefs on others. Sadly, that is mostly what happens.

It'also sad because it is all based on fiction.

Jesus as a historical person is not considered fiction by mainstream scholarship.

Jesus the man existed and walked the earth, according to the overwhelming consensus of historians, including:
Christian scholars
Jewish scholars
Atheist and secular scholars

The idea that Jesus was entirely invented (the “mythicist” position) exists, but it is fringe and not the academic norm.

So you're the "walked the earth" person. OK -- That doesn't mean Jesus was God. I walk the earth too. So do you and everyone else. We're not God.

So you admit Jesus was a real person?

It's not a matter of admitting anything. I'm the one who doesn't care if Jesus walked the earth or not. Whether or not he's a real person, he's not God

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on that “secular” historian list.

Look at the reference list.

The first person listed is Ehrman so clearly not a list of secular historians.

He's agnostic.

Aside from questioning the supernatural aspects later in life, he’s about as Christian as you can get. Evangelical. Wheaton. Seminary school. New Testament scholar.

Not secular. Not an unbiased historian.

Give us the list of secular historians you believe are unbiased.

For starters, the ones who didn’t study theology and go seminary school. The ones who don’t use the Bible as their primary source.

Who? Give us their names please? You have avoided naming these professionals for pages/days. You just keep repeating the same comment over and over again like a bot or troll.

Which professionals? Are there any real historians who have analyzed this? Maybe they couldn’t find enough unbiased evidence to publish one way or another.

It's hard to keep track of who is responding to who, but I can tell when it's time for an intelligent person to take his ball and go home, realizing you're discussing with someone who is determined to always have the last word so he can declare victory, and does so not through reasoned discussion or critiques but a nah nah nah fingers in ears rejection of everything. It's boring and tiresome. Go ahead and have the last word. Shriek hysterically that nothing is still proven while ignoring the questions actually asked of you. Good luck.

You may be intelligent - good at math or maybe have a photogenic memory or something, but if you believe in God, you're dumb about that. Maybe you like the idea of living forever. I can see why. It sounds good to me too, but I know it's not realistic.

Historical, brilliant giants like Newton,
Pascal, Kepler, Galileo, Boyle, and Mendel were devout. Modern examples: Francis Collins (led Human Genome Project, evangelical Christian); John Polkinghorne (particle physicist turned Anglican priest); Arthur Peacocke (biochemist, Anglican priest); Nobel winners like Arno Penzias (physics, theist), William Phillips (physics, Methodist), or Gerhard Ertl (chemistry, Christian).

From 1901-2000, ~65% of Nobel laureates in sciences identified as Christian (or had Christian background), ~20% Jewish (many secular, but some theistic), and only ~10% atheists/agnostics overall (Shalev, 2003). Disbelief is higher in literature/peace categories.

Intelligence doesn’t dictate atheism or theism. Smart people land on both sides because God’s existence isn’t a settled empirical fact like gravity—it’s philosophical/metaphysical.

Eternal life does sound good. Whether it’s realistic is the real debate, not whether wishing for it makes someone foolish.

I wish for eternal life too. I just know it's not gonna happen. It doesn't happen to any other living thing (like our beloved dogs and cats that we "put to sleep"), and it's not gonna happen to me, whether or not I'm religious and believe that I'll live forever with God in Heaven. I'm lucky to be alive and healthy right now.

Other people believe differently than you, and they have just as much right to their beliefs as you do yours.

They may have a right to their beliefs. They dont have a right to impose those beliefs on others. Sadly, that is mostly what happens.

It'also sad because it is all based on fiction.

Jesus as a historical person is not considered fiction by mainstream scholarship.

Jesus the man existed and walked the earth, according to the overwhelming consensus of historians, including:
Christian scholars
Jewish scholars
Atheist and secular scholars

The idea that Jesus was entirely invented (the “mythicist” position) exists, but it is fringe and not the academic norm.

So you're the "walked the earth" person. OK -- That doesn't mean Jesus was God. I walk the earth too. So do you and everyone else. We're not God.

So you admit Jesus was a real person?

It's not a matter of admitting anything. I'm the one who doesn't care if Jesus walked the earth or not. Whether or not he's a real person, he's not God

Wrong thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still waiting on that “secular” historian list.

Look at the reference list.

The first person listed is Ehrman so clearly not a list of secular historians.

He's agnostic.

Aside from questioning the supernatural aspects later in life, he’s about as Christian as you can get. Evangelical. Wheaton. Seminary school. New Testament scholar.

Not secular. Not an unbiased historian.

Give us the list of secular historians you believe are unbiased.

For starters, the ones who didn’t study theology and go seminary school. The ones who don’t use the Bible as their primary source.

Who? Give us their names please? You have avoided naming these professionals for pages/days. You just keep repeating the same comment over and over again like a bot or troll.

Which professionals? Are there any real historians who have analyzed this? Maybe they couldn’t find enough unbiased evidence to publish one way or another.

It's hard to keep track of who is responding to who, but I can tell when it's time for an intelligent person to take his ball and go home, realizing you're discussing with someone who is determined to always have the last word so he can declare victory, and does so not through reasoned discussion or critiques but a nah nah nah fingers in ears rejection of everything. It's boring and tiresome. Go ahead and have the last word. Shriek hysterically that nothing is still proven while ignoring the questions actually asked of you. Good luck.

You may be intelligent - good at math or maybe have a photogenic memory or something, but if you believe in God, you're dumb about that. Maybe you like the idea of living forever. I can see why. It sounds good to me too, but I know it's not realistic.

Historical, brilliant giants like Newton,
Pascal, Kepler, Galileo, Boyle, and Mendel were devout. Modern examples: Francis Collins (led Human Genome Project, evangelical Christian); John Polkinghorne (particle physicist turned Anglican priest); Arthur Peacocke (biochemist, Anglican priest); Nobel winners like Arno Penzias (physics, theist), William Phillips (physics, Methodist), or Gerhard Ertl (chemistry, Christian).

From 1901-2000, ~65% of Nobel laureates in sciences identified as Christian (or had Christian background), ~20% Jewish (many secular, but some theistic), and only ~10% atheists/agnostics overall (Shalev, 2003). Disbelief is higher in literature/peace categories.

Intelligence doesn’t dictate atheism or theism. Smart people land on both sides because God’s existence isn’t a settled empirical fact like gravity—it’s philosophical/metaphysical.

Eternal life does sound good. Whether it’s realistic is the real debate, not whether wishing for it makes someone foolish.

I wish for eternal life too. I just know it's not gonna happen. It doesn't happen to any other living thing (like our beloved dogs and cats that we "put to sleep"), and it's not gonna happen to me, whether or not I'm religious and believe that I'll live forever with God in Heaven. I'm lucky to be alive and healthy right now.

Other people believe differently than you, and they have just as much right to their beliefs as you do yours.

They may have a right to their beliefs. They dont have a right to impose those beliefs on others. Sadly, that is mostly what happens.

It'also sad because it is all based on fiction.

Jesus as a historical person is not considered fiction by mainstream scholarship.

Jesus the man existed and walked the earth, according to the overwhelming consensus of historians, including:
Christian scholars
Jewish scholars
Atheist and secular scholars

The idea that Jesus was entirely invented (the “mythicist” position) exists, but it is fringe and not the academic norm.

So you're the "walked the earth" person. OK -- That doesn't mean Jesus was God. I walk the earth too. So do you and everyone else. We're not God.

So you admit Jesus was a real person?

It's not a matter of admitting anything. I'm the one who doesn't care if Jesus walked the earth or not. Whether or not he's a real person, he's not God

Wrong thread.

What thread this is about doesn't matter. Whether or not Jesus walked the earth, he's not God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

Real historians study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

Real historians study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

Ok, give me a list of real historians and I will see what they say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

Real historians study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

Ok, give me a list of real historians and I will see what they say.

Pick any history department in any university - not the theology dept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

Real historians study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

Ok, give me a list of real historians and I will see what they say.

Pick any history department in any university - not the theology dept.

Virtually all professional historians and scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person who lived in the 1st century AD. The idea that he never existed is treated as a fringe or “mythicist” position outside mainstream scholarship.

Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant (2004) ISBN 1898799881 p. 200

[Anonymous]

^ Grant’s background

[Anonymous]

CITATION

[9]Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X p. 61

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

Real historians study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

Ok, give me a list of real historians and I will see what they say.

Pick any history department in any university - not the theology dept.

Virtually all professional historians and scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person who lived in the 1st century AD. The idea that he never existed is treated as a fringe or “mythicist” position outside mainstream scholarship.

Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant (2004) ISBN 1898799881 p. 200

The guy who use the Bible to verify the Bible? Lol

Pick anyone from the history department who uses independent sources.

[Anonymous]

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CITATION

[9]Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars: Robert M. Price "Jesus at the Vanishing Point" in The Historical Jesus: Five Views edited by James K. Beilby & Paul Rhodes Eddy, 2009 InterVarsity, ISBN 028106329X p. 61

When most of the “scholars” are extremely devout and/or using the Bible as their source it’s not surprising that they will come to that conclusion.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker.

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?

Real historians study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

Ok, give me a list of real historians and I will see what they say.

Pick any history department in any university - not the theology dept.

Virtually all professional historians and scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person who lived in the 1st century AD. The idea that he never existed is treated as a fringe or “mythicist” position outside mainstream scholarship.

Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant (2004) ISBN 1898799881 p. 200

Every time you say Jesus was a real person, I'll say "So What? That doesn't mean he's God."

Still, I don't think you get it or even want to get it. Instead, you like to think that the more experts say that Jesus was a real person, and the more you write about it here, the more likely it is that Jesus is God.