Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas headed to divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GMA did a segment with a lawyer this morning.

Long story short: her efforts to make this an international incident aren’t compelling. They had a fight in mid-august that prompted him to file for divorce. She alleges the international kidnapping happened just this week when he refused to turn over their passports and let the kids return to London.

Here’s the thing: if the kids were teens in school in the UK, then you could show their residence. Since they are young, life plans can change and it’s not unreasonable for him to assert that.

I can't tell what from your comment is what the legal expert said on GMA and what is you editorializing. I think the truth is somewhere between "international kidnapping incident" and "she has no case."

The kids are dual citizens, so there's no obvious argument that they must stay in the US. Joe isn't going to be able to force Sophie to stay in the US -- there is no compelling reason why the US is the better place for the children. Sophie also already has a more stable and secure set up for them ready in the UK -- a house purchase underway, her family nearby, plans for education. Her career is a complicating factor but if she continues to do UK-based TV work, that could actually be fairly minimally disruptive and allow her to be home with her kids most of the time. Where does Joe Jonas even live right now? Is his plan to continue touring? How does that work with two small kids who will be starting school soon?

Sophie is going to get 50/50 custody and the right to take the kids to the UK. There is no legal way to prevent her from doing so at this point. And she currently has a strong argument for being the custodial parent because Joe has no plan in place for where the kids will live, go to school, who will care for them while he's working, etc. He filed in Florida but doesn't even live there. His family is in LA but they are all in the entertainment industry and travel a lot.

I think his best bet would be to plan to settle in NY, get an apartment with lots of space for the kids, and hope to maximize his custodial time with the kids by being in the part of the US that is easiest to travel to and from the UK. I don't know if he wants to do that though, and he seems like kind of a jerk who doesn't like compromise, so I can also see him getting made he didn't "win" and just fading out of his kids' lives.

My post was a quick summary of what the lawyer on GMA said.

It’s doubtful an American court will order removal to the UK.

I hope the parents find a solution.

I read an article earlier about the comments of a lawyer who went on and on about how the Florida court already decided that the kids couldn't leave the country and Sophie is trying to make an end-run around the order with her filing. Clearly just taking Joe's rep's statement about the court order and extrapolating wildly and not at all familiar with the full facts. All to say, I'd take random lawyer commentary with a grain of salt. Sophie has a very well respected legal team on these issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

[Anonymous]

The September 6th order requiring the kids to stay in the US was almost certainly written by Joe's legal team with boilerplate language about what the parties can and can't do pending a hearing. That's standard procedure with an initial filing as it allows the judge to simply review and sign, since one day is not enough time for a judge to make a merit-based determination on what should happen with the kids. It's just an order that will say "party A is filing for divorce, party B has x days to respond, a hearing will be scheduled according to [whatever procedure], in the meantime, the parties must/must not do the following [including leave the country with the kids]." It would be standard procedure in large part to prevent a child abduction by a disgruntled spouse, since sadly and of course sometimes that's what happens when someone files for divorce.

That order will last, at most, a few weeks, and I find it highly unlikely that Sophie, a UK citizen, will not be permitted to take her children, also UK citizens, back to the UK within a very short period of time, once it is clear that she will be complying with court orders and has no intention of denying Joe access to the children or giving him custody according to any agreed upon arrangement. The kids could be in the UK as early as October.

I also think it's highly likely the Florida case will be soon remanded to SDNY, where Sophie filed, given that Joe failed to establish residency in Florida for purposes of custody proceedings, neither party resides or owns property in Florida, and both parties are currently located in NY. Plus NY is more accessible from London and, as these proceedings are likely to drag on a bit based on the initial behavior of the participants, it is likely the kids will be moving back and forth between the US and UK and NY makes more sense in terms of limiting the burden on the kids.

[Anonymous]

I’m almost certain during that fight in August he said he don’t want the family to move to the UK. Whoever has the best support system, I have no idea who that is, should get physical custody of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although it seems they had made plans to move to the UK, no one is bound by those plans especially when a marriage breaks down. Who knows what happened that night of the big fight but it let to the end of their marriage. Of course that changes things for all of them compaired to their previous intentions.

They hadn't actually established residency yet in the UK so unlikely that intended plans will carry much sway. They spent a couple months there in late spring with her family and then the kids went on tour with Joe while Sophie filmed her show.

And they have a Sept 6th court order that the children aren't to be moved pending the next legal proceedings. She can't take them out of the country right now.

If the facts as alleged by Sophie are true -- and there are surely receipts for things like entering into a contract for the permanent home, the older daughter attending school, etc. -- then they did establish residency in the UK. Taking the girls on tour doesn't un-move them if the family had indeed moved to England, as Sophie says.

I wish more of the Florida filings were publicly available. When I look at the Florida docket, I don't see any orders from the court on it. I don't know anything about Florida family law though, so maybe there is some law that automatically comes into play upon filing, and that Joe's reps are framing as a "court order"? In any case, whatever it is is based on Joe's filing, which included a jurisdictional affidavit swearing that Florida is the kids' home state -- which seems questionable based on Sophie's filing.

His lawyer said he filed on Sept 5th and the court order from the Florida court restricting the move was Sept 6th so it seems likely they more or less happened at the same time.

They went to the UK in April / May - Sophie was starting to film in May so while it seems they did intend to move, they also were travelling all together for work. They stayed with her family May-July while she filmed her new show. Apparently they entered into contract in July for a house with a closing date of December. However they also own homes in the USA so home ownership wouldn' tbe enough to establish residency. Then it seems that Joe took the kids (and the nanny) with him in early August when they went on tour as he has a lot more time off (concerts are at night) than Sophie does while filming. She was filming in August in Spain and the UK. It seems filming ended in early September and the original plan had been she would then join him on tour. It looks like the first phase of the tour wraps up Dec 9 and then the next pahse starts at the end of February so they likely intended to move into the new house during that break.

It seems that post the fight they had agreed Sophie could come and get the kids when she was done filming in Sept versus the original plan to join him on tour, however after filing for divorce he was clearly given legal advice to keep the children in the USA while the next legal steps about custody happen. Since they have all lived in the USA for the past few years, I doubt that will be seen as abduction in any way. They own a condo in New York so they have a home there.

Yeah- if they first moved to England in April I doubt their 3 year old was starting school a month before it ended. Maybe she was enrolled somewhere for this fall where she’s obviously not attending. Sophie’s claims sound exaggerated to make it seem like they settled there. It seems like she wanted to do that, and he didn’t. And since he filed for divorce before they could settle down there, the kids haven’t spend a significant enough amount of time in the UK for it to be legally be considered their most recent established home.

It doesn't matter because Sophie is English and the kids have dual citizenship and the family has no other permanent residence. Sophie WILL be permitted to take the kids back to the UK, at least on a part-time basis. Then idea that she and the kids will be forced to stay in the US is silly. She is not a US citizen and her kids have British citizenship. She can't move them permanently to the UK without permission, but she's going to be able to spend her custodial time there if she wants. The court will just want to make sure that she won't exploit that to try and keep them in the UK permanently, but she's getting good legal advice and I don't think that will be an issue. She'll make sure Joe gets all his custody time and that the kids are delivered to him in the US when they are supposed to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The September 6th order requiring the kids to stay in the US was almost certainly written by Joe's legal team with boilerplate language about what the parties can and can't do pending a hearing. That's standard procedure with an initial filing as it allows the judge to simply review and sign, since one day is not enough time for a judge to make a merit-based determination on what should happen with the kids. It's just an order that will say "party A is filing for divorce, party B has x days to respond, a hearing will be scheduled according to [whatever procedure], in the meantime, the parties must/must not do the following [including leave the country with the kids]." It would be standard procedure in large part to prevent a child abduction by a disgruntled spouse, since sadly and of course sometimes that's what happens when someone files for divorce.

That order will last, at most, a few weeks, and I find it highly unlikely that Sophie, a UK citizen, will not be permitted to take her children, also UK citizens, back to the UK within a very short period of time, once it is clear that she will be complying with court orders and has no intention of denying Joe access to the children or giving him custody according to any agreed upon arrangement. The kids could be in the UK as early as October.

I also think it's highly likely the Florida case will be soon remanded to SDNY, where Sophie filed, given that Joe failed to establish residency in Florida for purposes of custody proceedings, neither party resides or owns property in Florida, and both parties are currently located in NY. Plus NY is more accessible from London and, as these proceedings are likely to drag on a bit based on the initial behavior of the participants, it is likely the kids will be moving back and forth between the US and UK and NY makes more sense in terms of limiting the burden on the kids.

According to the statement from Jonas's lawyer, there was a meeting between the two sides and the understanding was that cusotdy would be shared and each would have their custody time in their respective countries. According to the statement, the day after that meeting Sophie filed suit alleging abduction and also stating she ended to take the children to the UK permanently. It seems both teams are doing legal wrangling here. This is the statement from Joe's team.

'After multiple conversations with Sophie, Joe initiated divorce proceedings in Florida, as Florida is the appropriate jurisdiction for the case. Sophie was aware that Joe was going to file for divorce. The Florida Court has already entered an order that restricts both parents from relocating the children. Sophie was served with this order on September 6, 2023, more than two weeks ago.

'Joe and Sophie had a cordial meeting this past Sunday in New York, when Sophie came to New York to be with the kids. They have been with her since that meeting. Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup.

'Less than 24 hours later, Sophie advised that she wanted to take the children permanently to the UK. Thereafter, she demanded via this filing that Joe hand over the children’s passports so that she could take them out of the country immediately. If he complies, Joe will be in violation of the Florida Court order.

'Joe is seeking shared parenting with the kids so that they are raised by both their mother and father, and is of course also okay with the kids being raised both in the U.S. and the UK. The children were born in the U.S. and have spent the vast majority of their lives in the U.S. They are American citizens.

'This is an unfortunate legal disagreement about a marriage that is sadly ending. When language like “abduction” is used, it is misleading at best, and a serious abuse of the legal system at worst. The children were not abducted. After being in Joe’s care for the past three months at the agreement of both parties, the children are currently with their mother. Sophie is making this claim only to move the divorce proceedings to the UK and to remove the children from the U.S. permanently.

'Joe has already disavowed any and all statements purportedly made on his behalf that were disparaging of Sophie. They were made without his approval and are not consistent with his views. His wish is that Sophie reconsider her harsh legal position and move forward in a more constructive and private manner. His only concern is the well-being of his children.'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m almost certain during that fight in August he said he don’t want the family to move to the UK. Whoever has the best support system, I have no idea who that is, should get physical custody of the kids.

The kids are young enough right now that it would be possible to do a 50/50 split even if Sophie is in the UK and Joe is in the US. A few months here, a few months there. Normally a court might question whether that's good for the kids, but this is a family that already regularly spends a month or two in one location before moving elsewhere, often abroad. It's not like they've been living in a quiet suburb of Miami attending daycare for the last 3 years and now suddenly they will get shuttled back and forth on planes. If you look at Sophie's filing, it shows where the family has lived since September 2022 and it's like 10 locations in 3-4 countries.

The big question is going to be where the kids go to school. They have time to fight over it now but it's going to be a big deal. Sophie is staking out her position now that she wants the kids to be educated in England, and if she gets her way with that, it's going to dictate the custody schedule.

Here's a big part of the problem for Joe: If Joe and Sophie are married, then they could live in England and the kids could go to school there, and Sophie's family can help ensure continuity and security for the kids even though they have one parent who tours frequently for work and another who will work intensely in short bursts but could be home with them the rest of the time. It's an unorthodox but workable solution.

But divorced, Sophie can still offer the above but Joe is now a single dad whose job requires frequent travel and working nights. Joe will need to outline exactly what his custodial time looks like and it's going to be tricky because he currently has no roots anywhere. His custodial time will have to rely heavily on paid help (whereas Sophie can offer family participation -- Joe's family are all entertainers with similar lives to him).

I maintain it's going to be basically impossible for Joe to get primary custody, and once the kids start school, I think the situation leans heavily towards Sophie getting what she wants, which is for the girls to attend school in England near her family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The September 6th order requiring the kids to stay in the US was almost certainly written by Joe's legal team with boilerplate language about what the parties can and can't do pending a hearing. That's standard procedure with an initial filing as it allows the judge to simply review and sign, since one day is not enough time for a judge to make a merit-based determination on what should happen with the kids. It's just an order that will say "party A is filing for divorce, party B has x days to respond, a hearing will be scheduled according to [whatever procedure], in the meantime, the parties must/must not do the following [including leave the country with the kids]." It would be standard procedure in large part to prevent a child abduction by a disgruntled spouse, since sadly and of course sometimes that's what happens when someone files for divorce.

That order will last, at most, a few weeks, and I find it highly unlikely that Sophie, a UK citizen, will not be permitted to take her children, also UK citizens, back to the UK within a very short period of time, once it is clear that she will be complying with court orders and has no intention of denying Joe access to the children or giving him custody according to any agreed upon arrangement. The kids could be in the UK as early as October.

I also think it's highly likely the Florida case will be soon remanded to SDNY, where Sophie filed, given that Joe failed to establish residency in Florida for purposes of custody proceedings, neither party resides or owns property in Florida, and both parties are currently located in NY. Plus NY is more accessible from London and, as these proceedings are likely to drag on a bit based on the initial behavior of the participants, it is likely the kids will be moving back and forth between the US and UK and NY makes more sense in terms of limiting the burden on the kids.

According to the statement from Jonas's lawyer, there was a meeting between the two sides and the understanding was that cusotdy would be shared and each would have their custody time in their respective countries. According to the statement, the day after that meeting Sophie filed suit alleging abduction and also stating she ended to take the children to the UK permanently. It seems both teams are doing legal wrangling here. This is the statement from Joe's team.

'After multiple conversations with Sophie, Joe initiated divorce proceedings in Florida, as Florida is the appropriate jurisdiction for the case. Sophie was aware that Joe was going to file for divorce. The Florida Court has already entered an order that restricts both parents from relocating the children. Sophie was served with this order on September 6, 2023, more than two weeks ago.

'Joe and Sophie had a cordial meeting this past Sunday in New York, when Sophie came to New York to be with the kids. They have been with her since that meeting. Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup.

'Less than 24 hours later, Sophie advised that she wanted to take the children permanently to the UK. Thereafter, she demanded via this filing that Joe hand over the children’s passports so that she could take them out of the country immediately. If he complies, Joe will be in violation of the Florida Court order.

'Joe is seeking shared parenting with the kids so that they are raised by both their mother and father, and is of course also okay with the kids being raised both in the U.S. and the UK. The children were born in the U.S. and have spent the vast majority of their lives in the U.S. They are American citizens.

'This is an unfortunate legal disagreement about a marriage that is sadly ending. When language like “abduction” is used, it is misleading at best, and a serious abuse of the legal system at worst. The children were not abducted. After being in Joe’s care for the past three months at the agreement of both parties, the children are currently with their mother. Sophie is making this claim only to move the divorce proceedings to the UK and to remove the children from the U.S. permanently.

'Joe has already disavowed any and all statements purportedly made on his behalf that were disparaging of Sophie. They were made without his approval and are not consistent with his views. His wish is that Sophie reconsider her harsh legal position and move forward in a more constructive and private manner. His only concern is the well-being of his children.'

That goes a lot further than what the statement actually says about the meeting, which is that "Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup."

Speaking of the statement, the idea that Joe would be violating the court order by giving Sophie the passports sounds pretty silly. First, I have to think the "order," such as it is, would only prevent one of the parents from relocating the children without the permission of the other. Surely it doesn't say the children cannot leave even with the permission of both parents? But even if it does, I don't see how Joe providing the passports to Sophie would violate any order.

I also continue to wonder about what exactly this "order" says. The kids aren't in Florida, they are in New York with Sophie right now. Does the Florida "order" say the kids have to stay in New York? Can they go anywhere in the U.S. -- just not back to England? I think these orders are mostly to keep the parents/kids in the home state while the divorce is hammered out, so I have no idea how it operates with the kids already in an entirely different state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m almost certain during that fight in August he said he don’t want the family to move to the UK. Whoever has the best support system, I have no idea who that is, should get physical custody of the kids.

The kids are young enough right now that it would be possible to do a 50/50 split even if Sophie is in the UK and Joe is in the US. A few months here, a few months there. Normally a court might question whether that's good for the kids, but this is a family that already regularly spends a month or two in one location before moving elsewhere, often abroad. It's not like they've been living in a quiet suburb of Miami attending daycare for the last 3 years and now suddenly they will get shuttled back and forth on planes. If you look at Sophie's filing, it shows where the family has lived since September 2022 and it's like 10 locations in 3-4 countries.

The big question is going to be where the kids go to school. They have time to fight over it now but it's going to be a big deal. Sophie is staking out her position now that she wants the kids to be educated in England, and if she gets her way with that, it's going to dictate the custody schedule.

Here's a big part of the problem for Joe: If Joe and Sophie are married, then they could live in England and the kids could go to school there, and Sophie's family can help ensure continuity and security for the kids even though they have one parent who tours frequently for work and another who will work intensely in short bursts but could be home with them the rest of the time. It's an unorthodox but workable solution.

But divorced, Sophie can still offer the above but Joe is now a single dad whose job requires frequent travel and working nights. Joe will need to outline exactly what his custodial time looks like and it's going to be tricky because he currently has no roots anywhere. His custodial time will have to rely heavily on paid help (whereas Sophie can offer family participation -- Joe's family are all entertainers with similar lives to him).

I maintain it's going to be basically impossible for Joe to get primary custody, and once the kids start school, I think the situation leans heavily towards Sophie getting what she wants, which is for the girls to attend school in England near her family.

I don’t know. Sophie agreed to let Joe have the kids these past 3 months because she said when she is filming he has more time for them. The same way Sophie’s family can help her, Joe’s family can help him. Hopefully they can come to a solution that’s in the best interest of the kids

[Anonymous]

At some point, the kids are going to have to go to school one place or the other. What the cutoff age for that is, I’m not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m almost certain during that fight in August he said he don’t want the family to move to the UK. Whoever has the best support system, I have no idea who that is, should get physical custody of the kids.

The kids are young enough right now that it would be possible to do a 50/50 split even if Sophie is in the UK and Joe is in the US. A few months here, a few months there. Normally a court might question whether that's good for the kids, but this is a family that already regularly spends a month or two in one location before moving elsewhere, often abroad. It's not like they've been living in a quiet suburb of Miami attending daycare for the last 3 years and now suddenly they will get shuttled back and forth on planes. If you look at Sophie's filing, it shows where the family has lived since September 2022 and it's like 10 locations in 3-4 countries.

The big question is going to be where the kids go to school. They have time to fight over it now but it's going to be a big deal. Sophie is staking out her position now that she wants the kids to be educated in England, and if she gets her way with that, it's going to dictate the custody schedule.

Here's a big part of the problem for Joe: If Joe and Sophie are married, then they could live in England and the kids could go to school there, and Sophie's family can help ensure continuity and security for the kids even though they have one parent who tours frequently for work and another who will work intensely in short bursts but could be home with them the rest of the time. It's an unorthodox but workable solution.

But divorced, Sophie can still offer the above but Joe is now a single dad whose job requires frequent travel and working nights. Joe will need to outline exactly what his custodial time looks like and it's going to be tricky because he currently has no roots anywhere. His custodial time will have to rely heavily on paid help (whereas Sophie can offer family participation -- Joe's family are all entertainers with similar lives to him).

I maintain it's going to be basically impossible for Joe to get primary custody, and once the kids start school, I think the situation leans heavily towards Sophie getting what she wants, which is for the girls to attend school in England near her family.

Many bands / groups only tour every few years. According to Google, this tour ends in June 2024. They did 92 shows in 2019/2020, 52 shows in 2021 / 2022, and now this tour which has 94 shows planned in 2023 / 2024. That isnt a lot of time away from home. That is 47 tour days a year over the last 5 years. The shows are pretty closely packed together with 6-8 week breaks. The other brothers also both have kids according to Google so I am sure they will continue to limit their touring.

Sophie's schedule is somewhat unpredictable. It depends if she only takes work from now on in the UK or if she will also travel for work. Filming can be on a set and long hours as well. The oldest daughter is just turned 3 so they have a couple years before school is a determining factor.

This is all very new and raw for them right now. The big fight that seems to have led to this marriage breakdown happened on Aug 15th, that is less than 6 weeks ago. I am sure things will settle between them soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The September 6th order requiring the kids to stay in the US was almost certainly written by Joe's legal team with boilerplate language about what the parties can and can't do pending a hearing. That's standard procedure with an initial filing as it allows the judge to simply review and sign, since one day is not enough time for a judge to make a merit-based determination on what should happen with the kids. It's just an order that will say "party A is filing for divorce, party B has x days to respond, a hearing will be scheduled according to [whatever procedure], in the meantime, the parties must/must not do the following [including leave the country with the kids]." It would be standard procedure in large part to prevent a child abduction by a disgruntled spouse, since sadly and of course sometimes that's what happens when someone files for divorce.

That order will last, at most, a few weeks, and I find it highly unlikely that Sophie, a UK citizen, will not be permitted to take her children, also UK citizens, back to the UK within a very short period of time, once it is clear that she will be complying with court orders and has no intention of denying Joe access to the children or giving him custody according to any agreed upon arrangement. The kids could be in the UK as early as October.

I also think it's highly likely the Florida case will be soon remanded to SDNY, where Sophie filed, given that Joe failed to establish residency in Florida for purposes of custody proceedings, neither party resides or owns property in Florida, and both parties are currently located in NY. Plus NY is more accessible from London and, as these proceedings are likely to drag on a bit based on the initial behavior of the participants, it is likely the kids will be moving back and forth between the US and UK and NY makes more sense in terms of limiting the burden on the kids.

According to the statement from Jonas's lawyer, there was a meeting between the two sides and the understanding was that cusotdy would be shared and each would have their custody time in their respective countries. According to the statement, the day after that meeting Sophie filed suit alleging abduction and also stating she ended to take the children to the UK permanently. It seems both teams are doing legal wrangling here. This is the statement from Joe's team.

'After multiple conversations with Sophie, Joe initiated divorce proceedings in Florida, as Florida is the appropriate jurisdiction for the case. Sophie was aware that Joe was going to file for divorce. The Florida Court has already entered an order that restricts both parents from relocating the children. Sophie was served with this order on September 6, 2023, more than two weeks ago.

'Joe and Sophie had a cordial meeting this past Sunday in New York, when Sophie came to New York to be with the kids. They have been with her since that meeting. Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup.

'Less than 24 hours later, Sophie advised that she wanted to take the children permanently to the UK. Thereafter, she demanded via this filing that Joe hand over the children’s passports so that she could take them out of the country immediately. If he complies, Joe will be in violation of the Florida Court order.

'Joe is seeking shared parenting with the kids so that they are raised by both their mother and father, and is of course also okay with the kids being raised both in the U.S. and the UK. The children were born in the U.S. and have spent the vast majority of their lives in the U.S. They are American citizens.

'This is an unfortunate legal disagreement about a marriage that is sadly ending. When language like “abduction” is used, it is misleading at best, and a serious abuse of the legal system at worst. The children were not abducted. After being in Joe’s care for the past three months at the agreement of both parties, the children are currently with their mother. Sophie is making this claim only to move the divorce proceedings to the UK and to remove the children from the U.S. permanently.

'Joe has already disavowed any and all statements purportedly made on his behalf that were disparaging of Sophie. They were made without his approval and are not consistent with his views. His wish is that Sophie reconsider her harsh legal position and move forward in a more constructive and private manner. His only concern is the well-being of his children.'

That goes a lot further than what the statement actually says about the meeting, which is that "Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup."

Speaking of the statement, the idea that Joe would be violating the court order by giving Sophie the passports sounds pretty silly. First, I have to think the "order," such as it is, would only prevent one of the parents from relocating the children without the permission of the other. Surely it doesn't say the children cannot leave even with the permission of both parents? But even if it does, I don't see how Joe providing the passports to Sophie would violate any order.

I also continue to wonder about what exactly this "order" says. The kids aren't in Florida, they are in New York with Sophie right now. Does the Florida "order" say the kids have to stay in New York? Can they go anywhere in the U.S. -- just not back to England? I think these orders are mostly to keep the parents/kids in the home state while the divorce is hammered out, so I have no idea how it operates with the kids already in an entirely different state.

If Sophie is claiming that Joe abducted the children while the kids are physically with her is that a mark against her? Doesn’t she have UK passport for the kids? If the other parent does not give her permission to take the kids out of the country does it really matter if she has their passport? She is not going to legally remove a US citizen out of the country without the other parents consent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The September 6th order requiring the kids to stay in the US was almost certainly written by Joe's legal team with boilerplate language about what the parties can and can't do pending a hearing. That's standard procedure with an initial filing as it allows the judge to simply review and sign, since one day is not enough time for a judge to make a merit-based determination on what should happen with the kids. It's just an order that will say "party A is filing for divorce, party B has x days to respond, a hearing will be scheduled according to [whatever procedure], in the meantime, the parties must/must not do the following [including leave the country with the kids]." It would be standard procedure in large part to prevent a child abduction by a disgruntled spouse, since sadly and of course sometimes that's what happens when someone files for divorce.

That order will last, at most, a few weeks, and I find it highly unlikely that Sophie, a UK citizen, will not be permitted to take her children, also UK citizens, back to the UK within a very short period of time, once it is clear that she will be complying with court orders and has no intention of denying Joe access to the children or giving him custody according to any agreed upon arrangement. The kids could be in the UK as early as October.

I also think it's highly likely the Florida case will be soon remanded to SDNY, where Sophie filed, given that Joe failed to establish residency in Florida for purposes of custody proceedings, neither party resides or owns property in Florida, and both parties are currently located in NY. Plus NY is more accessible from London and, as these proceedings are likely to drag on a bit based on the initial behavior of the participants, it is likely the kids will be moving back and forth between the US and UK and NY makes more sense in terms of limiting the burden on the kids.

According to the statement from Jonas's lawyer, there was a meeting between the two sides and the understanding was that cusotdy would be shared and each would have their custody time in their respective countries. According to the statement, the day after that meeting Sophie filed suit alleging abduction and also stating she ended to take the children to the UK permanently. It seems both teams are doing legal wrangling here. This is the statement from Joe's team.

'After multiple conversations with Sophie, Joe initiated divorce proceedings in Florida, as Florida is the appropriate jurisdiction for the case. Sophie was aware that Joe was going to file for divorce. The Florida Court has already entered an order that restricts both parents from relocating the children. Sophie was served with this order on September 6, 2023, more than two weeks ago.

'Joe and Sophie had a cordial meeting this past Sunday in New York, when Sophie came to New York to be with the kids. They have been with her since that meeting. Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup.

'Less than 24 hours later, Sophie advised that she wanted to take the children permanently to the UK. Thereafter, she demanded via this filing that Joe hand over the children’s passports so that she could take them out of the country immediately. If he complies, Joe will be in violation of the Florida Court order.

'Joe is seeking shared parenting with the kids so that they are raised by both their mother and father, and is of course also okay with the kids being raised both in the U.S. and the UK. The children were born in the U.S. and have spent the vast majority of their lives in the U.S. They are American citizens.

'This is an unfortunate legal disagreement about a marriage that is sadly ending. When language like “abduction” is used, it is misleading at best, and a serious abuse of the legal system at worst. The children were not abducted. After being in Joe’s care for the past three months at the agreement of both parties, the children are currently with their mother. Sophie is making this claim only to move the divorce proceedings to the UK and to remove the children from the U.S. permanently.

'Joe has already disavowed any and all statements purportedly made on his behalf that were disparaging of Sophie. They were made without his approval and are not consistent with his views. His wish is that Sophie reconsider her harsh legal position and move forward in a more constructive and private manner. His only concern is the well-being of his children.'

That goes a lot further than what the statement actually says about the meeting, which is that "Joe’s impression of the meeting was that they had reached an understanding that they would work together towards an amicable co-parenting setup."

Speaking of the statement, the idea that Joe would be violating the court order by giving Sophie the passports sounds pretty silly. First, I have to think the "order," such as it is, would only prevent one of the parents from relocating the children without the permission of the other. Surely it doesn't say the children cannot leave even with the permission of both parents? But even if it does, I don't see how Joe providing the passports to Sophie would violate any order.

I also continue to wonder about what exactly this "order" says. The kids aren't in Florida, they are in New York with Sophie right now. Does the Florida "order" say the kids have to stay in New York? Can they go anywhere in the U.S. -- just not back to England? I think these orders are mostly to keep the parents/kids in the home state while the divorce is hammered out, so I have no idea how it operates with the kids already in an entirely different state.

+1, I think Joe's team is trying to spin a standard court order that would be issued in any divorce filing in that Florida court as like a special situation where the judge explicitly said "Sophie may not take these kids to the UK."

They are both playing games though. I was very fully team Sophie and think I still am for a variety of reasons outside the mess of the divorce, but she's hired a legal team that is taking a very aggressive stance and they must have known that the tone of that filing, plus her specific requests to both move the kids to the UK immediately AND remove divorce proceedings to the UK was going to escalate things a lot.

Maybe it's merited. We don't know these people or what motivated the divorce. This situation appears to have escalated extremely quickly both have done things that make it clear that there is absolutely no affection between them. I find that alarming for two people who have been together such a short period, have such very young children, and who were apparently buying a home together just two months ago. What happened?! I fear this is just the tip of the iceberg and I feel pretty terrible for the kids. One reason I kind of hope they get moved back to the UK is that I think they will be more protected from it if they are there near Sophie's family and more out of the public eye. If all parties stay in NY, I think they will be much more exposed.