Banneker versus School Without Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, feel free to go someplace else. Banneker isn’t for you.

Many families will including this minority family.

The dead horse is the Banneker people who play the race card when UMC white families make other choices.

What? What are you talking about?!

Search the Banneker threads. Lots of posts accusing families of being racist on why they don’t choose Banneker. It’s not race. It’s because of poor SAT scores and the lack of robust extracurriculars and clubs.

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

These families make other choices. But the Banneker crew defend the school by saying it’s because of racism. Ultimately, these people enable DCPS to continue to have low standards and continue the status quo.

But yet there are non-minority families there with high performing kids. There are clubs and a huge community service requirement. My kid does sports outside of school so is largely uninterested in school sports. I do think people are uncomfortable with it being predominantly AA and people have stated that in the archives. What strikes me as crazy is that you think Banneker parents aren’t going to defend their choice when you attack it. You don’t have a student there so your impression of the school is largely created from test scores. Ok, you’re right their SAT scores aren’t as high as other schools. But it doesn’t mean my kid can’t score high.

[Anonymous]

But yet there are non-minority families there with high performing kids. There are clubs and a huge community service requirement. My kid does sports outside of school so is largely uninterested in school sports. I do think people are uncomfortable with it being predominantly AA and people have stated that in the archives. What strikes me as crazy is that you think Banneker parents aren’t going to defend their choice when you attack it. You don’t have a student there so your impression of the school is largely created from test scores. Ok, you’re right their SAT scores aren’t as high as other schools. But it doesn’t mean my kid can’t score high.
[Report Post]

In response to the post above, you're really fudging things, PP. I posted some pages back that I used to volunteer at Banneker as a STEM mentor at special events, and occasionally in classes. Hence, my impression of the school is not based primarily or wholly from test score data.

There aren't more than 15 white kids at Banneker and you can count the number of students of East Asian ancestry (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) on one hand. Moreover, most of the non-minority families use Banneker as a placeholder school for a year or two before getting organized to move on. Only around 1% of Banneker graduates are non-minority in any given year, half a dozen seniors.

What happens with SAT scores at Banneker is that affirmative action in college admissions gives the highest-performing students a pass on scoring high. These students probably could score very high, 1400+, but few bother because the adults in the school, at home, and indeed in college admissions offices around the country, don't care if they do. High-performing Banneker students soon figure out that they won't need to score high on SATs to crack elite colleges. I found the arrangement offensive, one of the reasons I stopped volunteering. Although I'm a liberal, I want the Supreme Court to roll back affirmative action in admissions, like Michigan and California did in their public universities around 20 years ago. I want affirmative action in admissions to end because I'm convinced that it hurts low-income minority students more than it helps them. My time at Banneker taught me that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again, feel free to go someplace else. Banneker isn’t for you.

Many families will including this minority family.

The dead horse is the Banneker people who play the race card when UMC white families make other choices.

What? What are you talking about?!

Search the Banneker threads. Lots of posts accusing families of being racist on why they don’t choose Banneker. It’s not race. It’s because of poor SAT scores and the lack of robust extracurriculars and clubs.

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

These families make other choices. But the Banneker crew defend the school by saying it’s because of racism. Ultimately, these people enable DCPS to continue to have low standards and continue the status quo.

But yet there are non-minority families there with high performing kids. There are clubs and a huge community service requirement. My kid does sports outside of school so is largely uninterested in school sports. I do think people are uncomfortable with it being predominantly AA and people have stated that in the archives. What strikes me as crazy is that you think Banneker parents aren’t going to defend their choice when you attack it. You don’t have a student there so your impression of the school is largely created from test scores. Ok, you’re right their SAT scores aren’t as high as other schools. But it doesn’t mean my kid can’t score high.

+1

[Anonymous]

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

You're contradicting yourself. If your white kid can easily score 1200+ without trying what difference does overall Banneker score make on your individual kid? Are you just scared of 1250? Don't worry -- the outside prep you are definitely springing for is going to determine the SAT score more than anything else. More colleges are getting wise to this racket anyway. Relax - your whiteness is obviously sufficient for your needs. Are you just worried that Banneker would somehow drag down your kid?

You already claim to have resources for success. Are you just uncomfortable with the challenge presented by a public school populated primarily with academically motivated AA children from less privileged backgrounds? Or even worse, why are you so dismissive of a school that performs reasonably well despite these challenges when you would never actually consider enrolling there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But yet there are non-minority families there with high performing kids. There are clubs and a huge community service requirement. My kid does sports outside of school so is largely uninterested in school sports. I do think people are uncomfortable with it being predominantly AA and people have stated that in the archives. What strikes me as crazy is that you think Banneker parents aren’t going to defend their choice when you attack it. You don’t have a student there so your impression of the school is largely created from test scores. Ok, you’re right their SAT scores aren’t as high as other schools. But it doesn’t mean my kid can’t score high.
[Report Post]

In response to the post above, you're really fudging things, PP. I posted some pages back that I used to volunteer at Banneker as a STEM mentor at special events, and occasionally in classes. Hence, my impression of the school is not based primarily or wholly from test score data.

There aren't more than 15 white kids at Banneker and you can count the number of students of East Asian ancestry (Chinese, Korean, Japanese) on one hand. Moreover, most of the non-minority families use Banneker as a placeholder school for a year or two before getting organized to move on. Only around 1% of Banneker graduates are non-minority in any given year, half a dozen seniors.

What happens with SAT scores at Banneker is that affirmative action in college admissions gives the highest-performing students a pass on scoring high. These students probably could score very high, 1400+, but few bother because the adults in the school, at home, and indeed in college admissions offices around the country, don't care if they do. High-performing Banneker students soon figure out that they won't need to score high on SATs to crack elite colleges. I found the arrangement offensive, one of the reasons I stopped volunteering. Although I'm a liberal, I want the Supreme Court to roll back affirmative action in admissions, like Michigan and California did in their public universities around 20 years ago. I want affirmative action in admissions to end because I'm convinced that it hurts low-income minority students more than it helps them. My time at Banneker taught me that.

Ok I’m done with this thread and this forum. If families are interested in Banneker, ask around your neighborhoods and post to your listservs because there is no need for every Banneker discussion to end up on Affirmative Action. I can tell people aren’t genuinely interested in the school but rather interested in voicing their politics. People are just extremely disappointing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

You're contradicting yourself. If your white kid can easily score 1200+ without trying what difference does overall Banneker score make on your individual kid? Are you just scared of 1250? Don't worry -- the outside prep you are definitely springing for is going to determine the SAT score more than anything else. More colleges are getting wise to this racket anyway. Relax - your whiteness is obviously sufficient for your needs. Are you just worried that Banneker would somehow drag down your kid?

You already claim to have resources for success. Are you just uncomfortable with the challenge presented by a public school populated primarily with academically motivated AA children from less privileged backgrounds? Or even worse, why are you so dismissive of a school that performs reasonably well despite these challenges when you would never actually consider enrolling there?

Not the PP you're responding to, but this is a BS ad hominem attack on UMC DC families who reject Banneker, particularly whites and Asians. Our kids simply won't be welcome at elite colleges with Banneker academics. My Asian kids will need 700s on SATs to have a shot in hell of being admitted to my own alma mater. I'm dismissive of the school because DCPS could do a lot better by Banneker students, all the way from K-12th. Bring on a bona fide academic magnet HS for "AA children from less privileged backgrounds" in a diverse school with strong extra-curriculars where SATs of 1300-1600 are the norm vs. the exception.

[Anonymous]

Facts:

1. Kids in 2021 DO NOT CARE as much about the SAT's as kids twenty years ago

2. Colleges and Universities in 2021 DO NOT CARE as much about the SATs as they did twenty years ago.

3. Those of you holding onto a test score as a measure of one's intellectual ability or academic prestige are HIGHLY outdated and holding onto antiquated ideas of what scholarship looks like in the new normal.

[Anonymous]

I'd argue that the opposite is true when reaching for the stars.

When I applied to Ivies in the 80s, a white or Asian applicant with college-educated parents could submit scores in the 600s and expect to have their application read in full. That ship sailed in the 1990s. Now, without 700s on the SATs, you're done applying before you start unless you're a low-income minority, a first generation applicant, or both. The flip side of the coin is that SATs in the 700s now open doors for most applicants.

The Ivies, Stanford, MIT, the military academies etc. haven't gone permanently test optional. They've simply suspended required SAT scores for 2022 due to the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

You're contradicting yourself. If your white kid can easily score 1200+ without trying what difference does overall Banneker score make on your individual kid? Are you just scared of 1250? Don't worry -- the outside prep you are definitely springing for is going to determine the SAT score more than anything else. More colleges are getting wise to this racket anyway. Relax - your whiteness is obviously sufficient for your needs. Are you just worried that Banneker would somehow drag down your kid?

You already claim to have resources for success. Are you just uncomfortable with the challenge presented by a public school populated primarily with academically motivated AA children from less privileged backgrounds? Or even worse, why are you so dismissive of a school that performs reasonably well despite these challenges when you would never actually consider enrolling there?

Not the PP you're responding to, but this is a BS ad hominem attack on UMC DC families who reject Banneker, particularly whites and Asians. Our kids simply won't be welcome at elite colleges with Banneker academics. My Asian kids will need 700s on SATs to have a shot in hell of being admitted to my own alma mater. I'm dismissive of the school because DCPS could do a lot better by Banneker students, all the way from K-12th. Bring on a bona fide academic magnet HS for "AA children from less privileged backgrounds" in a diverse school with strong extra-curriculars where SATs of 1300-1600 are the norm vs. the exception.

Yes, I'm black and Banneker can "work" for AA kids precisely because top colleges will look at it as a pipeline for high-achieving black kids that are likely to succeed and graduate, even if they lack the hard score metrics that would be required of white (and most certainly Asian) students. I'd wager that the Banneker kids that get into top-flight colleges invariably graduate, even if they get kicked on the teeth early on. There is nothing wrong with this in principle, but we all know that similarly -situated white/Asian students are not given the opportunity to prove themselves after they get to Yale.

Now, a top-scoring Asian-American student coming out of Banneker might make for an interesting applicant, and may even have an admissions advantage...but I wouldn't expect Asian-American families to bank on that and/or settle for the lack of rigor as compared to other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

You're contradicting yourself. If your white kid can easily score 1200+ without trying what difference does overall Banneker score make on your individual kid? Are you just scared of 1250? Don't worry -- the outside prep you are definitely springing for is going to determine the SAT score more than anything else. More colleges are getting wise to this racket anyway. Relax - your whiteness is obviously sufficient for your needs. Are you just worried that Banneker would somehow drag down your kid?

You already claim to have resources for success. Are you just uncomfortable with the challenge presented by a public school populated primarily with academically motivated AA children from less privileged backgrounds? Or even worse, why are you so dismissive of a school that performs reasonably well despite these challenges when you would never actually consider enrolling there?

You seem to think that SAT scores have no relationship to academics or knowledge base. The fact is as others have said, it tests basic knowledge, basic stuff the kids should already know.

Low SAT scores and a goal of getting 3’s on AP exams at Banneker tells me that the rigor and academic performance of the kids are very weak for a test in school, i.e a weak academic peer group for a magnet.

The families with kids who can easily score 1200’s and also juggle sports and extracurriculars are looking for a high school that will challenge their kid with a rigorous curriculum to further do better and reach their full potential. In this aspect, peer group matters a lot. Banneker isn’t going to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most high performing kids with a solid education can easily score 1200 plus with no effort and are involved in many extracurriculars in addition to sports. Why would they send their kid to a school with a subpar SAT average with barely any extracurriculars or clubs and sports?

You're contradicting yourself. If your white kid can easily score 1200+ without trying what difference does overall Banneker score make on your individual kid? Are you just scared of 1250? Don't worry -- the outside prep you are definitely springing for is going to determine the SAT score more than anything else. More colleges are getting wise to this racket anyway. Relax - your whiteness is obviously sufficient for your needs. Are you just worried that Banneker would somehow drag down your kid?

You already claim to have resources for success. Are you just uncomfortable with the challenge presented by a public school populated primarily with academically motivated AA children from less privileged backgrounds? Or even worse, why are you so dismissive of a school that performs reasonably well despite these challenges when you would never actually consider enrolling there?

You seem to think that SAT scores have no relationship to academics or knowledge base. The fact is as others have said, it tests basic knowledge, basic stuff the kids should already know.

Low SAT scores and a goal of getting 3’s on AP exams at Banneker tells me that the rigor and academic performance of the kids are very weak for a test in school, i.e a weak academic peer group for a magnet.

The families with kids who can easily score 1200’s and also juggle sports and extracurriculars are looking for a high school that will challenge their kid with a rigorous curriculum to further do better and reach their full potential. In this aspect, peer group matters a lot. Banneker isn’t going to do that.

I think the problem with Banneker seems to be that they have a student population with the potential to reach much higher, but no one is compelling/ preparing them to aim that high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Facts:

1. Kids in 2021 DO NOT CARE as much about the SAT's as kids twenty years ago

2. Colleges and Universities in 2021 DO NOT CARE as much about the SATs as they did twenty years ago.

3. Those of you holding onto a test score as a measure of one's intellectual ability or academic prestige are HIGHLY outdated and holding onto antiquated ideas of what scholarship looks like in the new normal.

#1 is not a fact. Lots of kids care about the SAT so much they take prep courses, get tutors, retake the test several times, etc. 20 years ago I don’t know anyone who took a prep class and kids took the test maybe twice max. I agree about your #2 and 3.

[Anonymous]

I can't see how anybody could agree with #1 if the qualifier "highly competitive colleges admitting in the single digits and teens" were added.

Admissions officers at the toughest colleges to be admitted to seem to care more about standardized test scores than they did 20 years ago. This helps explain why Harvard and Chapel Hill have been sued for requiring successful Asian applicants to score hundreds of points higher on SATs than AAs overall.

[Anonymous]

wow. my parents essentially told me i was hot garbage and could never get into college with a 1200 something score.

[Anonymous]

... if only the elitist strivers had the same disdain for legacy admissions they do for equitable admissions. They'll lose their s*** over someone poor and brown taking a spot but have no issue with 3rd gen WASP legacies gaining admissions preference because of their lacrosse or rowing abilities combined with mommy and daddy's $$$