FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Did not properly order this in prior post.

You don't need "critical mass." You just need teachers who plan for all children. I guarantee you, that, even in an AAP class, the kids are not all on--or even near--the same level. Good grief--what do you think all the "twice exceptional" kids are doing there? Of course, some have needs that are acceptable in an AAP classroom, but most are not able to keep up. When a child needs "extra time" to complete a project, do you really think the class is moving at a faster pace?
Ask any teacher at an AAP center--I guarantee you that some in GenEd are achieving as high as some in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did not properly order this in prior post.

You don't need "critical mass." You just need teachers who plan for all children. I guarantee you, that, even in an AAP class, the kids are not all on--or even near--the same level. Good grief--what do you think all the "twice exceptional" kids are doing there? Of course, some have needs that are acceptable in an AAP classroom, but most are not able to keep up. When a child needs "extra time" to complete a project, do you really think the class is moving at a faster pace?
Ask any teacher at an AAP center--I guarantee you that some in GenEd are achieving as high as some in AAP.

Unfortunately, they should have made decisions about the future of AAP and IB before starting this boundary review.

But, we have a deeply incompetent School Board that simultaneously wants to do "big things" and at the same time avoid personal accountability for decisions as long as possible. So we spend money on consultants and lawyers, and gin up a big boundary review process that has people worried, without having first made key decisions that ought to inform any adjustments. If you did eliminate AAP centers, that would have implications for boundaries, because centers would lose students and potentially be well under capacity, while other schools would gain students and potentially be overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

So the plan is to bring kids back. How does that improve the scores for kids already there

So you are fine with shifting other people's kids all over the county and out of the schools they like, just as long as you can pupil place your child where you like.

you seem to be fine with shifting kids back into failing schools. I guess as long as your kid goes to WSHS it's all godd?

It’s mind boggling to me that parents who pupil place out of these “failing schools” don’t want to go back yet are fine with moving hundreds of kids (who are perfectly happy in their pyramid) in with higher test scores to bring the school up. What will stop the newly zoned kids from pupil placing out too then?

I blame the sb for the mess we are in. What a great dynamic that they are bringing to our school system. Pitting neighbors against each other.

As long as we are importing poverty into the country and Fairfax county,this will happen. No one wants their kids going to school with a plurality of concentrated poverty where many students likely haven't seen formal education in years, if ever. There is no way around that.

+1
We are dealing with an immigration problem not really an education problem.

As to this: “ I think the AP schools at FCPS offer at least 28 or so”…my youngest is at a decent IB school so I had no idea it was this many but that seems like way more than is needed. Put in the core ones most kids take on 10-12 and that would be enough for each school as a baseline to start from.

Many schools need the full spectrum of AP classes.

Our school is one of a few that regularly runs AP Music Theory. Another high school regularly fills multiple classes of AP Multivariable Calculus.

Are you saying that schools should not be able to offer the advanced or niche AP classes they clearly have a demand for, because others don't have the interest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did not properly order this in prior post.

You don't need "critical mass." You just need teachers who plan for all children. I guarantee you, that, even in an AAP class, the kids are not all on--or even near--the same level. Good grief--what do you think all the "twice exceptional" kids are doing there? Of course, some have needs that are acceptable in an AAP classroom, but most are not able to keep up. When a child needs "extra time" to complete a project, do you really think the class is moving at a faster pace?
Ask any teacher at an AAP center--I guarantee you that some in GenEd are achieving as high as some in AAP.

When you have kids who are illterate and do not speak English, you are tasking teachers with the impossible, to prepare leveled lessons for everyone from the newly arrived illegal immigrant through the kids with the 150 IQ and a heavy dose of aspergers, along with all the 504 and IEP work they do.

AAP should not be elimimated.

Every pyramid should have a center elementary school.

Every middle school should have AAP, using the Irving model. Centers should be eliminated at the middle school level so no middle schoolers attend schools outside of their high school pyramid.

Fixing this is way more of a priority than county wide rezoning, middle school start times, and certainly more important than moving 6th grade to middle school so reid can add preK to all elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did not properly order this in prior post.

You don't need "critical mass." You just need teachers who plan for all children. I guarantee you, that, even in an AAP class, the kids are not all on--or even near--the same level. Good grief--what do you think all the "twice exceptional" kids are doing there? Of course, some have needs that are acceptable in an AAP classroom, but most are not able to keep up. When a child needs "extra time" to complete a project, do you really think the class is moving at a faster pace?
Ask any teacher at an AAP center--I guarantee you that some in GenEd are achieving as high as some in AAP.

When you have kids who are illterate and do not speak English, you are tasking teachers with the impossible, to prepare leveled lessons for everyone from the newly arrived illegal immigrant through the kids with the 150 IQ and a heavy dose of aspergers, along with all the 504 and IEP work they do.

AAP should not be elimimated.

Every pyramid should have a center elementary school.

Every middle school should have AAP, using the Irving model. Centers should be eliminated at the middle school level so no middle schoolers attend schools outside of their high school pyramid.

Fixing this is way more of a priority than county wide rezoning, middle school start times, and certainly more important than moving 6th grade to middle school so reid can add preK to all elementary schools.

What is the Irving model? Irving sends over 100 AAP kids to Lake Braddock.

I would have thought you meant something more like the Cooper/Johnson/Longfellow/South County model, where the MS has AAP and only kids within the base boundaries for that middle school attend.

[Anonymous]

When you have kids who are illterate and do not speak English, you are tasking teachers with the impossible, to prepare leveled lessons for everyone from the newly arrived illegal immigrant through the kids with the 150 IQ and a heavy dose of aspergers, along with all the 504 and IEP work they do.

In the primary grades, the kids generally pick up the language very quickly. (I've been a teacher in this situation.)

In the upper levels, you don't understand that having illiterate, non-English speaking kids is an issue for GenEd?

I agree that the non-English speaking, illeterate kids are an issue. It needs to be addressed in another way, but AAP kids don't deserve better than GenEd.

We don't need centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So the plan is to bring kids back. How does that improve the scores for kids already there

So you are fine with shifting other people's kids all over the county and out of the schools they like, just as long as you can pupil place your child where you like.

you seem to be fine with shifting kids back into failing schools. I guess as long as your kid goes to WSHS it's all godd?

It’s mind boggling to me that parents who pupil place out of these “failing schools” don’t want to go back yet are fine with moving hundreds of kids (who are perfectly happy in their pyramid) in with higher test scores to bring the school up. What will stop the newly zoned kids from pupil placing out too then?

I blame the sb for the mess we are in. What a great dynamic that they are bringing to our school system. Pitting neighbors against each other.

As long as we are importing poverty into the country and Fairfax county,this will happen. No one wants their kids going to school with a plurality of concentrated poverty where many students likely haven't seen formal education in years, if ever. There is no way around that.

+1
We are dealing with an immigration problem not really an education problem.

As to this: “ I think the AP schools at FCPS offer at least 28 or so”…my youngest is at a decent IB school so I had no idea it was this many but that seems like way more than is needed. Put in the core ones most kids take on 10-12 and that would be enough for each school as a baseline to start from.

Yes immigration is a problem, but one that will be resolved in a year or two. Long before any boundary changes take hold.

Make easy decision on IB, APP centers, etc., and the boundary problem goes away. Typical FCPS move, make decisions that will cause more problems, rather than solve the ones they already have.

[Anonymous]

Here we go....the point in the thread where we repeat what was said 10 pages ago.

Get rid of IB! Nobody wants to move from WSHS or Langley! No more pupil placement. I hate dems/repubs!

And yes, I keep reading also in the hope I'll find a little nugget of information or an interesting convo. But finding that parents are just pitting against other parents and the school board gonna do what they gonna do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here we go....the point in the thread where we repeat what was said 10 pages ago.

Get rid of IB! Nobody wants to move from WSHS or Langley! No more pupil placement. I hate dems/repubs!

And yes, I keep reading also in the hope I'll find a little nugget of information or an interesting convo. But finding that parents are just pitting against other parents and the school board gonna do what they gonna do.

Nailed it SB are masters of the shell game and this whole effort is designed to get and keep parents fighting with each other while they make moves in the name of equity.

But this fun to read the rumors and squabbles when the weather is frightful outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

+1

+ a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So the plan is to bring kids back. How does that improve the scores for kids already there

So you are fine with shifting other people's kids all over the county and out of the schools they like, just as long as you can pupil place your child where you like.

you seem to be fine with shifting kids back into failing schools. I guess as long as your kid goes to WSHS it's all godd?

It’s mind boggling to me that parents who pupil place out of these “failing schools” don’t want to go back yet are fine with moving hundreds of kids (who are perfectly happy in their pyramid) in with higher test scores to bring the school up. What will stop the newly zoned kids from pupil placing out too then?

I blame the sb for the mess we are in. What a great dynamic that they are bringing to our school system. Pitting neighbors against each other.

As long as we are importing poverty into the country and Fairfax county,this will happen. No one wants their kids going to school with a plurality of concentrated poverty where many students likely haven't seen formal education in years, if ever. There is no way around that.

THIS ^^. And anyone claiming that’s racist is simply a loon who is not to be taken seriously. This is common sense.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

+1

-1 hopefully they keep centers forever

Ridiculous. Centers are redundant at this point and completely unnecessary. They’re divisive and - to use the SB’s lingo - inequitable. They should have ended them long ago and gone back to what actually worked - an actual GT program within each school for the very few gifted kids who need it. Flexible groupings for everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

The school board thinks every high school will provide a decent education.

Some transfers will still need to be allowed (TJ, special education, students in language immersion programs in elementary school that are continuing the language through high school, and transfers to one of the academies for specialized programming.)

Transfers for other reasons should be made on a case by case basis and need to be applied for each year. If the high school is over capacity, then they shouldn’t allow transfers.

Robyn Lady said that all FCPS schools are good. Why are they doing this?

If you’re talking about Robyn Lady, I’m going to assume you’re a Langley parent asking why kids transfer out of Herndon. A big reason is that Hughes MS is the AAP center for kids zoned to Herndon MS, just like Lake Braddock is the AAP center for kids zoned to Robinson. Lots of Robinson kids also pupil place to Lake Braddock for 9-12 to stay with their AAP friends, and a lot of Herndon kids transfer to South Lakes for the same reason.

They could make HMS an AAP center and there would be fewer transfers at the HS level, but then you’ll come back and say if HMS had more kids it shouldn’t take on kids from Cooper MS.

A lot of this comes back to distortions due to AAP and misaligned MS/HS feeders. AAP centers distort school boundaries and enrollments. But the middle schools should be able to handle an enrollment half the size of the high schools, and the high schools should be able to handle an enrollment twice the size of the high schools. FCPS planning has been inept, so they often can’t.

DP. The first thing they should do is eliminate AAP centers and have all kids attend their base schools. Period. As you said, AAP centers distort all boundaries and enrollments and there is no need for them.

Actually amazed AAP centers are still around, clearly not consistent with the move to equity.

Exactly. “Sure, you can choose a different school to attend, along with free busing, even though your base school offers the same thing. But the rest of you kids have to stay right here.” So equitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go....the point in the thread where we repeat what was said 10 pages ago.

Get rid of IB! Nobody wants to move from WSHS or Langley! No more pupil placement. I hate dems/repubs!

And yes, I keep reading also in the hope I'll find a little nugget of information or an interesting convo. But finding that parents are just pitting against other parents and the school board gonna do what they gonna do.

Nailed it SB are masters of the shell game and this whole effort is designed to get and keep parents fighting with each other while they make moves in the name of equity.

But this fun to read the rumors and squabbles when the weather is frightful outside.

Sorry, there is a lot on here that is informative. For example: the makeup of the advisory committee or whatever it is called. Just saw that one of the members represents a particular organization. Did a little research and the organization (which is just on Facebook) calls itself a "political organization." Why did she get picked?

A lot of other information continues to be added: links to dashboard information that I was not aware of, for example. Little tidbits here and there. A link to a webinar with a School Board member as a guest. Information about the claim that one cannot FOIA the committee's work. Another claim that that is not legal. Etc.

A feel for the lobbying that is going on in other parts of the county. I also learned that a lot of people want my neighborhood to move (and, NO, I am not a Langley parent.) Information about Fort Belvoir kids being able to transfer anywhere in the county. Speculation about why some schools are not succeeding. And, lots more. I realize now that no one in the county is exempt from the domino effect.

I think the only people who want to shut this thread down are those that support shuffling our kids around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did not properly order this in prior post.

You don't need "critical mass." You just need teachers who plan for all children. I guarantee you, that, even in an AAP class, the kids are not all on--or even near--the same level. Good grief--what do you think all the "twice exceptional" kids are doing there? Of course, some have needs that are acceptable in an AAP classroom, but most are not able to keep up. When a child needs "extra time" to complete a project, do you really think the class is moving at a faster pace?
Ask any teacher at an AAP center--I guarantee you that some in GenEd are achieving as high as some in AAP.

Oh, absolutely. Apparently, the kids who are advanced in math but NOT advanced readers and writers are still allowed into AAP. A kid should be advanced in all subjects - gifted, in fact - to qualify for a gifted program. Obviously, AAP is not a gifted program. Which is why having flexible groupings for each grade level is critical. Many GenEd kids are advanced in language arts, but not math (just as an example). They should have access to an advanced LA class.

Some will say, oh well those kids can just “push in” to AAP classes. No. That makes it clear they don’t belong (push in? Wtf). Each grade needs multiple groupings for all core classes - which are flexible to allow kids to move in and out as needed.