FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

2023

https://www.fcps.edu/news/six-fcps-high-schools-rank-among-virginias-best-us-news-world-report

The only FCPS high schools listed are the schools in the top 10 in VA:

Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, #1
McLean High School, #4
Langley High School, #5
Oakton High School, #6
Marshall High School, #9
W.T. Woodson High School, #10

Why did you list 2023 instead of 2024?

#1 - TJ
#2 - Langley
#3 - McLean
#4 - Oakton
#5 - McLean
#6 - Marshall
#9 - Madison
#10 - West Springfield

FCPS didn’t do a press release for 2024. It doesn’t seem wise for them to show how much better some FCPS schools are compared to others (according to state/national rankings). With so many people upset about potential boundary adjustments, I’m sure FCPS will try to limit rankings or anything else that would show the education students receive is not the same at every high school.

But rankings don't show the "education students receive is not the same at every high school", it just shows that some schools are more affluent than others. School rankings tend to be measures of student body wealth (or aptitude in case of magnets) moreso than school quality, but people often conflate these things... sometimes intentionally and sometimes out of ignorance.

I don’t really buy this. There may be a correlation between student body affluence and rankings, but these rankings disclose the criteria, and the criteria is legitimate and makes sense to most people (e.g. test scores, graduation rates, etc.).

Again, there may be a correlation between student body attributes and rankings, but a lot of what they measure are student outcomes that many parents value when choosing a school.

So close! Then smacking yourself in the face with the fact that both test scores and graduation rates are directly correlated to affluence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

Where can you find the transfer numbers?

I know most on this thread seem only focused on the McLean/Langley/Herndon possibilities - not sure why Lewis is discussed since it does not seem to impact the majority of authors on this thread.

I would like to look at the Springfield area - since there is no mention of it.

There are often times when the discussion in this thread focuses primarily on the West Springfield/Lewis situation. Just search the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

2023

https://www.fcps.edu/news/six-fcps-high-schools-rank-among-virginias-best-us-news-world-report

The only FCPS high schools listed are the schools in the top 10 in VA:

Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, #1
McLean High School, #4
Langley High School, #5
Oakton High School, #6
Marshall High School, #9
W.T. Woodson High School, #10

Why did you list 2023 instead of 2024?

#1 - TJ
#2 - Langley
#3 - McLean
#4 - Oakton
#5 - McLean
#6 - Marshall
#9 - Madison
#10 - West Springfield

FCPS didn’t do a press release for 2024. It doesn’t seem wise for them to show how much better some FCPS schools are compared to others (according to state/national rankings). With so many people upset about potential boundary adjustments, I’m sure FCPS will try to limit rankings or anything else that would show the education students receive is not the same at every high school.

But rankings don't show the "education students receive is not the same at every high school", it just shows that some schools are more affluent than others. School rankings tend to be measures of student body wealth (or aptitude in case of magnets) moreso than school quality, but people often conflate these things... sometimes intentionally and sometimes out of ignorance.

I don’t really buy this. There may be a correlation between student body affluence and rankings, but these rankings disclose the criteria, and the criteria is legitimate and makes sense to most people (e.g. test scores, graduation rates, etc.).

Again, there may be a correlation between student body attributes and rankings, but a lot of what they measure are student outcomes that many parents value when choosing a school.

So close! Then smacking yourself in the face with the fact that both test scores and graduation rates are directly correlated to affluence.

Awfully confident in yourself for the least nuanced thinker on this discussion board. You’d probably go to the mats in arguing that warm weather causes shark attacks. 🙄

You would do yourself a big favor by learning the distinction between correlation and causation and related concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am curious - how many of the Mount Vernon transfers are the military students who live on Ft. Belvoir and are allowed, by VA state law, to transfer to any school within the county? I know this board always says "get rid of IB and students will return to MVHS." I'm sure alot of the transfers are IB to AP transfers but how many are military transfers that FCPS can't do anything about, except restore the reputation of the school?

I am guessing that many of the transfers could be military--but doubt that it is more than half.
Military kids tend to me younger as parents begin to retire as the children reach teens. If you look at the membership numbers of the Fort Belvoir elementary schools, you will see that the number goes down with every school year. I taught in a DOD school that had six large first grade classes and three small sixth grade classes.

On the whole military families tend to be younger, but the bases around here tend to be top heavy so older officers with older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

2023

https://www.fcps.edu/news/six-fcps-high-schools-rank-among-virginias-best-us-news-world-report

The only FCPS high schools listed are the schools in the top 10 in VA:

Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, #1
McLean High School, #4
Langley High School, #5
Oakton High School, #6
Marshall High School, #9
W.T. Woodson High School, #10

Why did you list 2023 instead of 2024?

#1 - TJ
#2 - Langley
#3 - McLean
#4 - Oakton
#5 - McLean
#6 - Marshall
#9 - Madison
#10 - West Springfield

FCPS didn’t do a press release for 2024. It doesn’t seem wise for them to show how much better some FCPS schools are compared to others (according to state/national rankings). With so many people upset about potential boundary adjustments, I’m sure FCPS will try to limit rankings or anything else that would show the education students receive is not the same at every high school.

But rankings don't show the "education students receive is not the same at every high school", it just shows that some schools are more affluent than others. School rankings tend to be measures of student body wealth (or aptitude in case of magnets) moreso than school quality, but people often conflate these things... sometimes intentionally and sometimes out of ignorance.

I don’t really buy this. There may be a correlation between student body affluence and rankings, but these rankings disclose the criteria, and the criteria is legitimate and makes sense to most people (e.g. test scores, graduation rates, etc.).

Again, there may be a correlation between student body attributes and rankings, but a lot of what they measure are student outcomes that many parents value when choosing a school.

So close! Then smacking yourself in the face with the fact that both test scores and graduation rates are directly correlated to affluence.

ok? Correlation or not, most families would rather their kids attend a school where the expectation is graduation and then a 4 year college and where programming is designed with that in mind than a school trying to get enough kids enough remedial classes so that they can get a diploma

[Anonymous]

Military families may have special privileges that effectively limit what can be done for Mount Vernon. That shouldn’t drive policy across the rest of the county. But if you want to limit pupil placements out of Herndon and Lewis, you have to limit them out of Langley and Robinson as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

Into Bryant is 33 from Mt Vernon, 34 from West Potomac and 15 from Lewis. Mountain View takes 21 from Herndon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am curious - how many of the Mount Vernon transfers are the military students who live on Ft. Belvoir and are allowed, by VA state law, to transfer to any school within the county? I know this board always says "get rid of IB and students will return to MVHS." I'm sure alot of the transfers are IB to AP transfers but how many are military transfers that FCPS can't do anything about, except restore the reputation of the school?

I am guessing that many of the transfers could be military--but doubt that it is more than half.
Military kids tend to me younger as parents begin to retire as the children reach teens. If you look at the membership numbers of the Fort Belvoir elementary schools, you will see that the number goes down with every school year. I taught in a DOD school that had six large first grade classes and three small sixth grade classes.

On the whole military families tend to be younger, but the bases around here tend to be top heavy so older officers with older kids.

Not at Fort Belvoir. You are thinking of the Pentagon. Most officers live off post. The rule about placing in any school only applies to those who live on post. Fort Belvoir is the only post in Fairfax with housing, I think. Fort Myer is in Arlington County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am curious - how many of the Mount Vernon transfers are the military students who live on Ft. Belvoir and are allowed, by VA state law, to transfer to any school within the county? I know this board always says "get rid of IB and students will return to MVHS." I'm sure alot of the transfers are IB to AP transfers but how many are military transfers that FCPS can't do anything about, except restore the reputation of the school?

I am guessing that many of the transfers could be military--but doubt that it is more than half.
Military kids tend to me younger as parents begin to retire as the children reach teens. If you look at the membership numbers of the Fort Belvoir elementary schools, you will see that the number goes down with every school year. I taught in a DOD school that had six large first grade classes and three small sixth grade classes.

On the whole military families tend to be younger, but the bases around here tend to be top heavy so older officers with older kids.

Not at Fort Belvoir. You are thinking of the Pentagon. Most officers live off post. The rule about placing in any school only applies to those who live on post. Fort Belvoir is the only post in Fairfax with housing, I think. Fort Myer is in Arlington County.

You can live on Belvoir even if you aren't posted there. We had good family friends who lived on post, but were assigned to Congress. Belvoir skews senior and the families living on Belvoir but posted elsewhere skew very senior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

Wow, seems like a solution staring them in the face, though I’d rather them just not make unnecessary moves in the first place.

I am curious - how many of the Mount Vernon transfers are the military students who live on Ft. Belvoir and are allowed, by VA state law, to transfer to any school within the county? I know this board always says "get rid of IB and students will return to MVHS." I'm sure alot of the transfers are IB to AP transfers but how many are military transfers that FCPS can't do anything about, except restore the reputation of the school?

Description
In accordance with Section § 22.1-7.2 of the Code of Virginia, upon request by a parent or guardian, FCPS provides for open enrollment for students residing on a military installation in military housing located within Fairfax County.

Required Documentation
Parents must provide the enrolled school with a current resident occupancy agreement from The Villages at Belvoir. If the lease date is not current, a letter from the community management office is also required.
The school acknowledges receipt of the documentation in the Student Information System (SIS).
After documentation is in SIS, the following business day the enrolling parent may submit an online student transfer application.
Instructions for submitting application for Resident on Military Installation.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter1/section22.1-7.2/

There aren't almost 400 high school students living on Fort Belvoir.

Most of the children living on base will be middle school or younger.

Likely, the number of Fort Belvoir high school students transferring out of Mount Vernon is fewer than 50 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am curious - how many of the Mount Vernon transfers are the military students who live on Ft. Belvoir and are allowed, by VA state law, to transfer to any school within the county? I know this board always says "get rid of IB and students will return to MVHS." I'm sure alot of the transfers are IB to AP transfers but how many are military transfers that FCPS can't do anything about, except restore the reputation of the school?

I am guessing that many of the transfers could be military--but doubt that it is more than half.
Military kids tend to me younger as parents begin to retire as the children reach teens. If you look at the membership numbers of the Fort Belvoir elementary schools, you will see that the number goes down with every school year. I taught in a DOD school that had six large first grade classes and three small sixth grade classes.

On the whole military families tend to be younger, but the bases around here tend to be top heavy so older officers with older kids.

Not living on base.

On base housing is primarily younger families, especially in this area.

Fort Belvoir probably has several dozen high school students, not hundreds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am curious - how many of the Mount Vernon transfers are the military students who live on Ft. Belvoir and are allowed, by VA state law, to transfer to any school within the county? I know this board always says "get rid of IB and students will return to MVHS." I'm sure alot of the transfers are IB to AP transfers but how many are military transfers that FCPS can't do anything about, except restore the reputation of the school?

I am guessing that many of the transfers could be military--but doubt that it is more than half.
Military kids tend to me younger as parents begin to retire as the children reach teens. If you look at the membership numbers of the Fort Belvoir elementary schools, you will see that the number goes down with every school year. I taught in a DOD school that had six large first grade classes and three small sixth grade classes.

On the whole military families tend to be younger, but the bases around here tend to be top heavy so older officers with older kids.

Not at Fort Belvoir. You are thinking of the Pentagon. Most officers live off post. The rule about placing in any school only applies to those who live on post. Fort Belvoir is the only post in Fairfax with housing, I think. Fort Myer is in Arlington County.

You can live on Belvoir even if you aren't posted there. We had good family friends who lived on post, but were assigned to Congress. Belvoir skews senior and the families living on Belvoir but posted elsewhere skew very senior

Sorry. Belvoir does not skew senior. Yes, housing is open to area military--as well as those living on Belvoir. However, MOST live off post. There is more enlisted housing than officer housing, however.
My point, having been a military spouse and taught in DOD schools, is that the membership in schools goes dramatically down as the kids get older. And, many of the very senior officers on Fort Belvoir no longer have children at home. They are in college or grown.

Note these statistics from Fort Belvoir elementary schools: First grade: 227 children. Sixth grade: 144 students. The numbers generally go down as the kids get older. It is unlikely that the military kids pupil placing out of Mt Vernon are the majority of kids placing out--though I would assume that most do since they can choose where to attend. The numbers drop dramatically as the kids reach high school. This is a fact. I speak from experience teaching in military schools.

And, yes, there are tons of military in Fairfax County. Comparatively few live on post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2022 data:

https://www.fcps.edu/news/fcps-high-schools-ranked-among-best-virginia-and-nation-us-news-and-world-report

There is a reason that parents with students at the top of this list don’t want their children to be redistricted to schools at the bottom of the list. It has nothing to do with racism. Why would any parent welcome a boundary adjustment from one of the top high schools in the county/country to one of high schools on the bottom of this list?

Lower-ranked school has space, was more recently renovated, may offer more opportunities for kids to make teams or get certain positions in plays or in bands, may be perceived as friendlier, etc. Reactions could also depend on whether families know each other from existing split feeders.

The numbers don’t support this:

Transfers out of school 2024-2025 School Year:
Herndon 309
Lewis 251
Mount Vernon 367
West Potomac 189

Current Capacity/Capacity if students stayed at zoned school:
Herndon 81%/92.4%
Lewis 87%/99.8%
Mount Vernon 75%/90%
West Potomac 92%/98%

The school board really needs to look at the schools that are over and under capacity and limit the number of transfers out of low capacity schools and into high capacity schools.

While I agree that looking at transfers is a good place to start, the numbers above are somewhat misleading. You would need to have more details on the number of voluntary pupil placements. I believe some of the numbers above represent students not transferring voluntarily, but for special education purposes or perhaps disciplinary reasons.

Still agree that FCPS needs to do as much as possible to eliminate the voluntary pupil placements.

I consider this the lowest hanging fruit for basically each of the 8130 categories. It’s the easiest first step in this process, and as PP points out, would almost instantly fix capacity issues.

So the fix is to ruin the ability of hundreds of kids to get a decent education?

Of course not. But the school board seems hell bent on doing that for some students in the county.

Shame on them for not actually trying to fix the issues. They suck.

[Anonymous]

Here is the link to where you can find capacity and student transfers.

https://www.fcps.edu/facilities-planning-future/facilities-and-membership-dashboards