Taylor's Feb Rec for Crown Boundary Study

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

And for decades Wootton (including when I attended Wootton in the 90s) had a huge Giant, chinese takeout restaurant, video rental store, medical and dental offices, a hair dresser, a bank (I think at one point it was 2 banks one with a drive through teller, movie rental place, and gift store all across the street.

I really don't understand this argument about retail especially since Wootton used to be right across from a shopping center and the new houses going up on the old shopping center site across from the current Wootton are going to include multiple RETAIL businesses there, too - you are grasping at straws here. Crown is a mixed use development which is what almost all new developments are - a combination of retail and housing. And the new development directly across the street from the current Wootton location will be very similar mixed use housing and commercial/retail.

Same poster as above - and ALSO many MCPS high schools are close to retail and busy roads - I really don't understand this concern. Walter Johnson is next door to a huge shopping complex with a 2nd one across the street and Montgomery Mall down the road. The new Woodward is on busy Old Georgetown Road a major thoroughfare just off of 270 and 495, Blair HS sits on the corner of one of the busiest intersections in Montgomery County. All of those schools (and probably others I don't know as well) are arguably in much busier, more traffic/congested areas, with a larger amount of retail than the lot that Crown sits on.

Plus, part of current Fallsmead boundaries are WALKING DISTANCE to Crown. No boundary changes needed - but some people are upset that a *different* set of Fallsmead students will be walkers to the new school building???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

And for decades Wootton (including when I attended Wootton in the 90s) had a huge Giant, chinese takeout restaurant, video rental store, medical and dental offices, a hair dresser, a bank (I think at one point it was 2 banks one with a drive through teller, movie rental place, and gift store all across the street.

I really don't understand this argument about retail especially since Wootton used to be right across from a shopping center and the new houses going up on the old shopping center site across from the current Wootton are going to include multiple RETAIL businesses there, too - you are grasping at straws here. Crown is a mixed use development which is what almost all new developments are - a combination of retail and housing. And the new development directly across the street from the current Wootton location will be very similar mixed use housing and commercial/retail.

Same poster as above - and ALSO many MCPS high schools are close to retail and busy roads - I really don't understand this concern. Walter Johnson is next door to a huge shopping complex with a 2nd one across the street and Montgomery Mall down the road. The new Woodward is on busy Old Georgetown Road a major thoroughfare just off of 270 and 495, Blair HS sits on the corner of one of the busiest intersections in Montgomery County. All of those schools (and probably others I don't know as well) are arguably in much busier, more traffic/congested areas, with a larger amount of retail than the lot that Crown sits on.

Plus, part of current Fallsmead boundaries are WALKING DISTANCE to Crown. No boundary changes needed - but some people are upset that a *different* set of Fallsmead students will be walkers to the new school building???

Of course they are. They feel entitled to be walkers based on their home purchase. It is natural for them to be upset but MCPS can't make decisions based on their comfort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

And for decades Wootton (including when I attended Wootton in the 90s) had a huge Giant, chinese takeout restaurant, video rental store, medical and dental offices, a hair dresser, a bank (I think at one point it was 2 banks one with a drive through teller, movie rental place, and gift store all across the street.

I really don't understand this argument about retail especially since Wootton used to be right across from a shopping center and the new houses going up on the old shopping center site across from the current Wootton are going to include multiple RETAIL businesses there, too - you are grasping at straws here. Crown is a mixed use development which is what almost all new developments are - a combination of retail and housing. And the new development directly across the street from the current Wootton location will be very similar mixed use housing and commercial/retail.

Same poster as above - and ALSO many MCPS high schools are close to retail and busy roads - I really don't understand this concern. Walter Johnson is next door to a huge shopping complex with a 2nd one across the street and Montgomery Mall down the road. The new Woodward is on busy Old Georgetown Road a major thoroughfare just off of 270 and 495, Blair HS sits on the corner of one of the busiest intersections in Montgomery County. All of those schools (and probably others I don't know as well) are arguably in much busier, more traffic/congested areas, with a larger amount of retail than the lot that Crown sits on.

Plus, part of current Fallsmead boundaries are WALKING DISTANCE to Crown. No boundary changes needed - but some people are upset that a *different* set of Fallsmead students will be walkers to the new school building???

Of course they are. They feel entitled to be walkers based on their home purchase. It is natural for them to be upset but MCPS can't make decisions based on their comfort.

The real reason is to self segregate.

[Anonymous]

List of HS's in mixed use zones off the top of my head: QO, BCC, SV, Blair, WJ, Woodward, RM, Gburg, NW. There's no regulation in MCPS that HS's have to be in a residential area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

And for decades Wootton (including when I attended Wootton in the 90s) had a huge Giant, chinese takeout restaurant, video rental store, medical and dental offices, a hair dresser, a bank (I think at one point it was 2 banks one with a drive through teller, movie rental place, and gift store all across the street.

I really don't understand this argument about retail especially since Wootton used to be right across from a shopping center and the new houses going up on the old shopping center site across from the current Wootton are going to include multiple RETAIL businesses there, too - you are grasping at straws here. Crown is a mixed use development which is what almost all new developments are - a combination of retail and housing. And the new development directly across the street from the current Wootton location will be very similar mixed use housing and commercial/retail.

Same poster as above - and ALSO many MCPS high schools are close to retail and busy roads - I really don't understand this concern. Walter Johnson is next door to a huge shopping complex with a 2nd one across the street and Montgomery Mall down the road. The new Woodward is on busy Old Georgetown Road a major thoroughfare just off of 270 and 495, Blair HS sits on the corner of one of the busiest intersections in Montgomery County. All of those schools (and probably others I don't know as well) are arguably in much busier, more traffic/congested areas, with a larger amount of retail than the lot that Crown sits on.

Plus, part of current Fallsmead boundaries are WALKING DISTANCE to Crown. No boundary changes needed - but some people are upset that a *different* set of Fallsmead students will be walkers to the new school building???

Of course they are. They feel entitled to be walkers based on their home purchase. It is natural for them to be upset but MCPS can't make decisions based on their comfort.

Does anyone know the number of students that come from the Rio area to Fallsmead ES?

I was going to argue that the Rio island area makes a small fraction of the students at Fallsmead.

But based on the buses/bus stops, where four of the eight buses for Fallsmead goes to the Rio area. ( https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/Transportation/busroutes/02233bus.pdf ) Or about 7 of the 39 bus stops. And some of those buses only have one or two stops at what looks like apartments.

Assuming that the buses are at full capacity, it does indicate that the bus riders from Rio would make up a good portion of approximately 512 students at Fallsmead. Where it looks like the bus capacity can vary from 55 to 90 students.

I find it questionable whenever MCPS has islands for school assignment zones and it's usually not a good indicator of the island. And in a lot of the proposals that came out in the last several months, a lot of the proposals had that Rio island staying with Fallsmead. But based on the bus routes/stops and the enrollment size, I'm wondering if Fallsmead would be really underenrolled if it did not have the Rio island assigned to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

You've been to Crown right? It's like Kentlands / Lakelands.

The Crown Farm shopping center is on one end; the school is on the other end. Between them is half a mile of dense housing (townhouses, single family houses) with no shopping. It is very residential.

Since when is it called Crown Farm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

You've been to Crown right? It's like Kentlands / Lakelands.

The Crown Farm shopping center is on one end; the school is on the other end. Between them is half a mile of dense housing (townhouses, single family houses) with no shopping. It is very residential.

Since when is it called Crown Farm?

That was the name of the farm on that land. Some people still use the old name. When I was a kid, it had cows and cornfields. Most people now call it Crown or Downtown Crown but the original farmhouse is in the back of the community close to Decoverly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why people keep fixating on Wootton parkway, it’s old layout, one way traffic, certainly not what modern school campus about.

And building a high capacity school in an urban, highly congested traffic area makes sense? At least Wootton is in a residential neighborhood.

Crown is also a residential neighborhood. Many students will be able to walk there.

You know this isn’t a proper comparison. Crown is basically a huge shopping center that has some apartments and townhouses-No normal person would describe it as a residential neighborhood. The neighborhoods adjacent to Wootton aren’t also adjacent to Harris Teeter etc…

You've been to Crown right? It's like Kentlands / Lakelands.

The Crown Farm shopping center is on one end; the school is on the other end. Between them is half a mile of dense housing (townhouses, single family houses) with no shopping. It is very residential.

Since when is it called Crown Farm?

Since 1894ish... https://www.gaithersburghistory.com/photos12

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear the naysayers on this thread are likely residents of Crown or its environs whose kids don’t or wouldn’t go to Wootton where it is today. They’re excited about opening a new school (built for someone else) and calling it Wootton (a lie) to boost their property values and improve the Gaithersburg tax base.

The fact that Wootton families are almost universally opposed to closing Wootton and transplanting some of its students to Crown should speak volumes to the BOE. Unfortunately, political deals have been cut to cover up MCPS’ incompetence and reward Gaithersburg with a “W” school (which used to have a well-performing school in QO, but no longer). I guess it’s equity at work once again.

Can you elaborate?

It’s obvious to anyone who is familiar with the facts how all of this came about.

If you live around DC, this is politics 101.

[Anonymous]

What really *should* have happened if so many Wootton parents weren't so hellbent on getting a brand new school on the current Wootton site AND keeping their entire cluster together (totally unrealistic when it is a boundary study intended to redraw boundaries of multiple schools) is the following:

- Crown HS - populated with DuFief, Stone Mill, Travilah, Rosemont, and Fields Road, (with Fallsmead Rio island going to Crown)

- Wootton (at current location) - Fallsmead (without Rio island), Lakewood, Cold Spring, and Ritchie Park

- RM - Twinbrook, Beall, Bayard Rustin, and College Gardens

This scenario would help to alleviate the overcrowding at RM, focus on geographic proximity for filling Crown while keeping 3 of the Wootton cluster schools together at both current Wootton and Crown, and maximize walkers/minimize buses at Wootton. Right now 100% of Ritchie Park kids are bussed to RM, but at least 60% could walk to Wootton.

I know Ritchie Park wanted to stay at JW and RM, but again, that is nonsensical from a boundary study perspective as well - at least one school in the RM cluster should/should have been moved to fulfill the original plan/promise to alleviate RM overcrowding and Ritchie Park makes the most sense from a geographic, minimizing buses perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What really *should* have happened if so many Wootton parents weren't so hellbent on getting a brand new school on the current Wootton site AND keeping their entire cluster together (totally unrealistic when it is a boundary study intended to redraw boundaries of multiple schools) is the following:

- Crown HS - populated with DuFief, Stone Mill, Travilah, Rosemont, and Fields Road, (with Fallsmead Rio island going to Crown)

- Wootton (at current location) - Fallsmead (without Rio island), Lakewood, Cold Spring, and Ritchie Park

- RM - Twinbrook, Beall, Bayard Rustin, and College Gardens

This scenario would help to alleviate the overcrowding at RM, focus on geographic proximity for filling Crown while keeping 3 of the Wootton cluster schools together at both current Wootton and Crown, and maximize walkers/minimize buses at Wootton. Right now 100% of Ritchie Park kids are bussed to RM, but at least 60% could walk to Wootton.

I know Ritchie Park wanted to stay at JW and RM, but again, that is nonsensical from a boundary study perspective as well - at least one school in the RM cluster should/should have been moved to fulfill the original plan/promise to alleviate RM overcrowding and Ritchie Park makes the most sense from a geographic, minimizing buses perspective.

MCPS decided to complicate things by trying to move Wayside to Wootton for whatever reason they had. Supposedly overcrowding at Churchill. But now Churchill can magically absorb the students from Cold Spring, granted it's a small number of students.

Plus they need to justify the costs for the outside consulting company that came up with all of the proposals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear the naysayers on this thread are likely residents of Crown or its environs whose kids don’t or wouldn’t go to Wootton where it is today. They’re excited about opening a new school (built for someone else) and calling it Wootton (a lie) to boost their property values and improve the Gaithersburg tax base.

The fact that Wootton families are almost universally opposed to closing Wootton and transplanting some of its students to Crown should speak volumes to the BOE. Unfortunately, political deals have been cut to cover up MCPS’ incompetence and reward Gaithersburg with a “W” school (which used to have a well-performing school in QO, but no longer). I guess it’s equity at work once again.

Can you elaborate?

It’s obvious to anyone who is familiar with the facts how all of this came about.

If you live around DC, this is politics 101.

This is a non-answer. Any information, or heck even an educated guess, on who made a deal with who?

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:What really *should* have happened if so many Wootton parents weren't so hellbent on getting a brand new school on the current Wootton site AND keeping their entire cluster together (totally unrealistic when it is a boundary study intended to redraw boundaries of multiple schools) is the following:

- Crown HS - populated with DuFief, Stone Mill, Travilah, Rosemont, and Fields Road, (with Fallsmead Rio island going to Crown)

- Wootton (at current location) - Fallsmead (without Rio island), Lakewood, Cold Spring, and Ritchie Park

- RM - Twinbrook, Beall, Bayard Rustin, and College Gardens

This scenario would help to alleviate the overcrowding at RM, focus on geographic proximity for filling Crown while keeping 3 of the Wootton cluster schools together at both current Wootton and Crown, and maximize walkers/minimize buses at Wootton. Right now 100% of Ritchie Park kids are bussed to RM, but at least 60% could walk to Wootton.

I know Ritchie Park wanted to stay at JW and RM, but again, that is nonsensical from a boundary study perspective as well - at least one school in the RM cluster should/should have been moved to fulfill the original plan/promise to alleviate RM overcrowding and Ritchie Park makes the most sense from a geographic, minimizing buses perspective.

There are not enough students for both Wootton and crown from the ES listed above. Churchill has to give some to make it work but Julie yang will not let that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:What really *should* have happened if so many Wootton parents weren't so hellbent on getting a brand new school on the current Wootton site AND keeping their entire cluster together (totally unrealistic when it is a boundary study intended to redraw boundaries of multiple schools) is the following:

- Crown HS - populated with DuFief, Stone Mill, Travilah, Rosemont, and Fields Road, (with Fallsmead Rio island going to Crown)

- Wootton (at current location) - Fallsmead (without Rio island), Lakewood, Cold Spring, and Ritchie Park

- RM - Twinbrook, Beall, Bayard Rustin, and College Gardens

This scenario would help to alleviate the overcrowding at RM, focus on geographic proximity for filling Crown while keeping 3 of the Wootton cluster schools together at both current Wootton and Crown, and maximize walkers/minimize buses at Wootton. Right now 100% of Ritchie Park kids are bussed to RM, but at least 60% could walk to Wootton.

I know Ritchie Park wanted to stay at JW and RM, but again, that is nonsensical from a boundary study perspective as well - at least one school in the RM cluster should/should have been moved to fulfill the original plan/promise to alleviate RM overcrowding and Ritchie Park makes the most sense from a geographic, minimizing buses perspective.

There are not enough students for both Wootton and crown from the ES listed above. Churchill has to give some to make it work but Julie yang will not let that happen.

Different poster, but this is how the numbers would look based off of 2024-2025 enrollment numbers:

Dufief 276, Stone Mill 516, Travilah 372, Rosemont 564, Fields Road 453=2181 Capacity: 2219 Utilization 2181/2219=98.3 pct

Fallsmead 512, Lakewood 406, Cold Spring 362, Ritchie Park 342=1622 Capacity: 1936 Utilization 1622/1936= 83.8 pct

Twinbrook 459, Beall 475, College Gardens 506, Bayard Rustin 757=2197 Capacity: 2220 Utilization 2197/2220=98.96 pct

The above keeps Rio island with Fallsmead and keeps all of Rosemont together, mainly because don't know the actual numbers for the subsets that are in the immediate Crown/Rio area.

But there can be some additional balancing of the schools, including other surrounding schools to balance it out more. But the other poster doesn't appear to be that far off in that possibility based on enrollment/capacity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:What really *should* have happened if so many Wootton parents weren't so hellbent on getting a brand new school on the current Wootton site AND keeping their entire cluster together (totally unrealistic when it is a boundary study intended to redraw boundaries of multiple schools) is the following:

- Crown HS - populated with DuFief, Stone Mill, Travilah, Rosemont, and Fields Road, (with Fallsmead Rio island going to Crown)

- Wootton (at current location) - Fallsmead (without Rio island), Lakewood, Cold Spring, and Ritchie Park

- RM - Twinbrook, Beall, Bayard Rustin, and College Gardens

This scenario would help to alleviate the overcrowding at RM, focus on geographic proximity for filling Crown while keeping 3 of the Wootton cluster schools together at both current Wootton and Crown, and maximize walkers/minimize buses at Wootton. Right now 100% of Ritchie Park kids are bussed to RM, but at least 60% could walk to Wootton.

I know Ritchie Park wanted to stay at JW and RM, but again, that is nonsensical from a boundary study perspective as well - at least one school in the RM cluster should/should have been moved to fulfill the original plan/promise to alleviate RM overcrowding and Ritchie Park makes the most sense from a geographic, minimizing buses perspective.

There are not enough students for both Wootton and crown from the ES listed above. Churchill has to give some to make it work but Julie yang will not let that happen.

Fallsgrove is very close to Crown, but it would suck for them to split off from the RM cluster after MS.

Same for if you send HH to Wootton - they would probably split after MS.