FCPS Boundary Review Updates

Anonymous
IB needs to be eliminated in FCPS. The numbers don't lie.


Once more: The SB as said they want "programming equity." If they mean it, they are obligated to eliminate IB.


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


I mentioned a couple of pages back, all they’re going to do is crowd out more affordable housing as UMC families rent in their chosen pyramid.

And before the equity posters claim residency fraud, please also plan to discuss why renting a pied a terre would amount to fraud.


It's not fraud to rent an abode. It's fraud to claim it's your primary residence in order to send your kid to a school they aren't entitled to attend.


No it actually isn’t fraud. You haven’t laid out your elements. Seems like You are saying it’s fraud because you say so - read your circular logic.

And if a renter rents in a certain pyramid, they are 100% “entitled to attend” that pyramid. Sorry, I know that’s not the response you wanted.

This will be the way. And the only way around it would be to just zone affordable housing to the pyramid.


If you are registering a kid, you provide a residency attestation: "I certify that I am currently residing with my child(ren) in Fairfax County at [address]."

You also affirm that you understand that "providing false or otherwise untrue information for school enrollment purposes constitutes a Class 4 misdemeanor."

If you knowingly provide a false certification about where you are currently residing, you have engaged in fraud, as that term is generally understood, and are subject to being fined (and your kid is subject to being booted out of the school they shouldn't be attending).



FCPS only has one person working on residency.

FCPS isn't enforcing anything.



Wait - only ONE person?!? For all of FCPS??

FCPS = 183,000 students.

There is a near-zero chance of getting caught at that ratio.



I think the schools do it themselves. This was several years back but I was in our ES office and heard one of the employees making calls about residency questions. Two were even told their kids had to leave.



Suuuuuure you did.

I am filing that one under: “things that never happened.”
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


I wondered about that, as well. Is 57 the number in the diploma program or just an IB course. If only 57 are taking IB courses, that is not very many students, even if it is just juniors and seniors. That would mean that there would only be one English class for JUniors and one for Seniors? Makes no sense. Either that, or the classes would be only 20.


50 South Lakes students earned the diploma last year according to the state spreadsheet for 23/24.

Here are the FCPS IB numbers from 2023-24 posted on the Virginia Department of Education data.

Quite frankly, they are fairly abysmal for such an expensive program.

Mount Vernon: 14 IB diplomas awarded, 25 students participating in IB

Annandale: 54 IB diplomas awarded, 77 students participating in IB

Lewis: 10 IB diplomas awarded, 10 seniors participating in IB

Justice: 30 IB diplomas awarded, 100 seniors participating in IB

Edison: 45 IB diplomas awarded, 60 seniors participating in IB

Marshall: 68 IB diplomas awarded, 74 seniors participating in IB

Robinson: 109 IB diplomas awarded, 137 seniors participating in IB

South Lakes: 50 IB diplomas awarded, 57 seniors participating in IB

The AP schools have much higher participation rates, even when you factor in that the IB rates are only reported for seniors. AP participation is over 1000 for almost all of the AP schools.

You have to separate IB diploma from IB participation. IB participation is taking a la carte courses in the same vein as AP. I’d rather they drop IB and just go full AP, because most people aren’t using the program as it’s intended anyway. They want the AP model.



The state listed above are separated.

The state spreadsheet is senior (12th) grade IB participation rate, vs the IB diploma rate.

Even if you multiply the IB participation rate by 4 grades, IB participation is a lot less than the AP participation rate.

Robinson is the only exception.

Their IB participation rate is about the same as Lake Bradddock's AP participation rate.

IB needs to be eliminated in FCPS. The numbers don't lie.

The state stats are for students who are pursuing an IB diploma and the students who actually achieved the IB diploma. Doesn’t Marshall have all juniors take IB English by default? If the state numbers meant to encompass those who are taking 1 or more IB courses, the column would state that as it does for AP.

The FCPS data is a year behind, but if you compare two similarly performing schools, Madison (AP) and Marshall (IB) the 11/12 grade participation is fairly even (834 vs 892).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


To clarify my post, I just looked at the actual net transfers out of Herndon on tableau and it’s -291, so close to 300 transfer out, not 400. Apologies for the wrong number but the analysis still holds. Those 291 net transfers can fill the gap at the school without creating further disruption outside the pyramid.

Again, I’m not interested in scrutinizing net transfers in normal times, but it’s incredibly dishonest to claim a shortfall that requires kids to be moved in when there are 291 students transferring out of the school.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


To clarify my post, I just looked at the actual net transfers out of Herndon on tableau and it’s -291, so close to 300 transfer out, not 400. Apologies for the wrong number but the analysis still holds. Those 291 net transfers can fill the gap at the school without creating further disruption outside the pyramid.

Again, I’m not interested in scrutinizing net transfers in normal times, but it’s incredibly dishonest to claim a shortfall that requires kids to be moved in when there are 291 students transferring out of the school.


Lewis has a similar high transfer rate to other high schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


We are doing an IB to AP transfer. We are required to take 4 AP classes by our senior year and 3 of them have to be completed by our junior year.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
You have to separate IB diploma from IB participation. IB participation is taking a la carte courses in the same vein as AP. I’d rather they drop IB and just go full AP, because most people aren’t using the program as it’s intended anyway. They want the AP model.


Agree.

Why don't they do a survey of IB schools--be sure and include the middle school feeders.
Everyone I know with a child at an IB school would prefer AP.

It's expensive and it has contributed to this boundary mess.


It’s one of the craziest things about this boundary review that they really haven’t sorted out the future of IB.

If you go back over time, they stopped making additional high schools IB schools in the early 2000s but they kept adding IB prep programs (PYP and MYP) to some elementary and middle schools.

And they’ve given scant indication they might revert to AP at the IB high schools, despite the mediocre to poor IB diploma stats. They still seem infatuated with IB’s focus on “global citizenship” and creating “lifelong learners.”

But they really ought to know that they can’t reassign kids from AP to IB high schools in connection with this boundary study without triggering a huge outcry. It’s almost willful ignorance to the likely consequences of their actions.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


We are doing an IB to AP transfer. We are required to take 4 AP classes by our senior year and 3 of them have to be completed by our junior year.


That is not really a full course load of AP classes.

A full course load would be 3 to 5 AP classes per year

Just dallying with 1 per year is taking advantage of a loophole.

There are only 2 to 3 AP classes offered 9th and 10th grade combined.

Most IB schools offer those 2-3 AP classes.

IB to AP transfered shuld not be allowed 9th and 10th grade, because students can get those 2-3 AP classes at the IB schools.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
IB needs to be eliminated in FCPS. The numbers don't lie.


Once more: The SB as said they want "programming equity." If they mean it, they are obligated to eliminate IB.




Sure: “programing equity,” but the SB’s true goal here is:


RACIAL EQUITY.

Equity is their clear, primary goal. They’ve repeatedly stated their number one goal as a SB is not academics. It is equity.

It is the E in DEI.

It is all they care about.




Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
IB needs to be eliminated in FCPS. The numbers don't lie.


Once more: The SB as said they want "programming equity." If they mean it, they are obligated to eliminate IB.




Sure: “programing equity,” but the SB’s true goal here is:


RACIAL EQUITY.

Equity is their clear, primary goal. They’ve repeatedly stated their number one goal as a SB is not academics. It is equity.

It is the E in DEI.

It is all they care about.






If they cared about that, they would focus on raising individual scores, not masking the problem with affluent kids.
Anonymous
If they cared about that, they would focus on raising individual scores, not masking the problem with affluent kids.


They only care about it politically. They do not care about it personally. Look at our favorite SB shill.

The only way to help the poor is education--and that comes from instruction, good solid instruction that starts at the current level and moves forward. It does not come from throwing a struggling student into an IB class.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


We are doing an IB to AP transfer. We are required to take 4 AP classes by our senior year and 3 of them have to be completed by our junior year.


That is not really a full course load of AP classes.

A full course load would be 3 to 5 AP classes per year

Just dallying with 1 per year is taking advantage of a loophole.

There are only 2 to 3 AP classes offered 9th and 10th grade combined.

Most IB schools offer those 2-3 AP classes.

IB to AP transfered shuld not be allowed 9th and 10th grade, because students can get those 2-3 AP classes at the IB schools.


Wonder if these are old policies. In the past, there were not many AP classes offered at freshman/sophomore level. In fact, there were not nearly as many at the Junior/Senior level as there are now.

But, eliminate IB at all the schools and that will take care of the issue.


Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are people on this forum that should walk before the students of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis, look those children in the eyes, and say, "I don't want my kid to go to school with you."

That's the message you're sending.

When you talk about community, you are saying that you don't want your children to be a part of the communities of Herndon, Annandale, and Lewis.

Because it's not the schools. It's not the teachers. People can make empty statements about "bringing programs to schools," but it's not the programs. It comes down to the fact that certain parents in FCPS don't want their kids to go to schools with the children at certain schools.

I wish this thread would shut down because it's full of ugliness. It's like we're repeating the 1960s, when parents didn't want schools to de-segregate. So much of the same language and behavior is being repeated here. It's ugly.


I want my kid at a school with other kids/families that value academics and other skills. The can rezone everyone but they can't stop people from selling their homes and moving to new neighborhoods. People's values are what drives their behavior and that will not change because FCPS tries to shake things up. If they truly are trying to rezone in order to achieve equity goals, they are going to be wasting a lot of time and energy on something that is going to backfire ultimately. But that's not surprising because they don't really care about achieving equity so much as looking like they care.


And that is why this thread is so ugly. You don't even see how insulting and terrible those words are.


+1. Disgusting


Uh, no. There's nothing "ugly" or "disgusting" about parents not wanting their rising sophomore or junior to be removed from their high school (and friends, clubs, and teams) in an AP pyramid to be forced to attend an IB school, when it really has nothing to do with capacity or transportation or "equitable access to programs", and everything to do with making that school look better on paper and saving FCPS from actually doing any real work to prevent the school from losing accreditation or help the students in need. What parent wants their child's life upended so they can be used as a pawn just to improve optics, because they aren't really addressing any of the actual problems or helping the kids that need it.


Langley and Herndon are both AP so the whole “we don’t want IB” argument doesn’t apply there. They just think it’s beneath them to send their kids to a school that’s over 5% FARMS.


There are close to 400 transfers out of Herndon high, many appear to be for South lakes ib.

Stupid to lie about something like that. It really hurts your credibility.


Based on the VA DOE stats for 23-24, only 57 South Lakes students are enrolled in IB:

South Lakes: 267 DE vs 13 AP vs 57 IB

If hundreds of students are transferring from Herndon to South Lakes for IB, shouldn't the South Lakes IB numbers be well into hundreds of students taking IB?

https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/program-participation-data/advanced-programs


Students using a transfer loophole such as AP or IB should be required to take a full course load of the program, not just a token 1 or 2 classes.

Somewhere the numbers are not making sense. Either your number of transfers is way off, or the data that FCPS submitted to Virginia is wrong


I wondered about that, as well. Is 57 the number in the diploma program or just an IB course. If only 57 are taking IB courses, that is not very many students, even if it is just juniors and seniors. That would mean that there would only be one English class for JUniors and one for Seniors? Makes no sense. Either that, or the classes would be only 20.


50 South Lakes students earned the diploma last year according to the state spreadsheet for 23/24.

Here are the FCPS IB numbers from 2023-24 posted on the Virginia Department of Education data.

Quite frankly, they are fairly abysmal for such an expensive program.

Mount Vernon: 14 IB diplomas awarded, 25 students participating in IB

Annandale: 54 IB diplomas awarded, 77 students participating in IB

Lewis: 10 IB diplomas awarded, 10 seniors participating in IB

Justice: 30 IB diplomas awarded, 100 seniors participating in IB

Edison: 45 IB diplomas awarded, 60 seniors participating in IB

Marshall: 68 IB diplomas awarded, 74 seniors participating in IB

Robinson: 109 IB diplomas awarded, 137 seniors participating in IB

South Lakes: 50 IB diplomas awarded, 57 seniors participating in IB

The AP schools have much higher participation rates, even when you factor in that the IB rates are only reported for seniors. AP participation is over 1000 for almost all of the AP schools.


FCPS IB AP transfer document- states take the course enrollment minimum not required to take the exam. IB is not limited to hopeful diploma candidates. https://www.fcps.edu/system/files/forms/2023-01/student-transfer-lou-ap-ib.pdf

IB fees per school https://www.ibo.org/become-an-ib-school/fees-and-services/fees-for-authorized-schools/
IB assessment fees https://www.ibo.org/become-an-ib-school/fees-and-services/assessment-fees-and-services/

FCPS doesn't charge for theory of knowledge etc. If any student takes a total combined AB+IB number of tests greater than 6 the student is charged AP $99 or IB $123 [same as on the IB site]. FCPS most recent program budget for the first time split AP and IB.

However it is really odd since for each of the 2 years there are the same numbers on the revenue for over 6 exams in both AP and IB. Besides spawning massive transfers IB has costs per school. Low diploma candidates? That cash still outflows. FCPS does not provide actual costs even on school detail budgets. How does IB have zero costs from Gatehouse?

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY-2025-Program-Budget.pdf
FY 2025
FY2025
AP
staff- 2 non school based=$415K $838,093.00
operating expenses $3,645,750.00
total $4,483,843.00
rev-fee for examsAP+IB>6/student $418,375.00
$4,065,468.00
fee $99 per test 4,226

[b]IB
staff- zero non school based $1,401,641.00
operating expenses $1,903,736.00
total $3,305,377.00
rev-fee for examsAP+IB>6/student $35,669.00
$3,269,708.00
fee $123 per test greater than 6 289

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You have to separate IB diploma from IB participation. IB participation is taking a la carte courses in the same vein as AP. I’d rather they drop IB and just go full AP, because most people aren’t using the program as it’s intended anyway. They want the AP model.


Agree.

Why don't they do a survey of IB schools--be sure and include the middle school feeders.
Everyone I know with a child at an IB school would prefer AP.

It's expensive and it has contributed to this boundary mess.


It’s one of the craziest things about this boundary review that they really haven’t sorted out the future of IB.

If you go back over time, they stopped making additional high schools IB schools in the early 2000s but they kept adding IB prep programs (PYP and MYP) to some elementary and middle schools.

And they’ve given scant indication they might revert to AP at the IB high schools, despite the mediocre to poor IB diploma stats. They still seem infatuated with IB’s focus on “global citizenship” and creating “lifelong learners.”

But they really ought to know that they can’t reassign kids from AP to IB high schools in connection with this boundary study without triggering a huge outcry. It’s almost willful ignorance to the likely consequences of their actions.


For more history, when TJ was started, they predominately pulled from Annandale and Lewis neighborhoods, students AND teachers. Not discounting any current teachers at either school now but it left a drought of interest in either and their reputations have never recovered.

I know they would never get rid of TJ now but bring programs back to the schools they were stained to rebuild. Moving boundary lines hasn’t and isn’t going to work for these schools to succeed.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You have to separate IB diploma from IB participation. IB participation is taking a la carte courses in the same vein as AP. I’d rather they drop IB and just go full AP, because most people aren’t using the program as it’s intended anyway. They want the AP model.


Agree.

Why don't they do a survey of IB schools--be sure and include the middle school feeders.
Everyone I know with a child at an IB school would prefer AP.

It's expensive and it has contributed to this boundary mess.


It’s one of the craziest things about this boundary review that they really haven’t sorted out the future of IB.

If you go back over time, they stopped making additional high schools IB schools in the early 2000s but they kept adding IB prep programs (PYP and MYP) to some elementary and middle schools.

And they’ve given scant indication they might revert to AP at the IB high schools, despite the mediocre to poor IB diploma stats. They still seem infatuated with IB’s focus on “global citizenship” and creating “lifelong learners.”

But they really ought to know that they can’t reassign kids from AP to IB high schools in connection with this boundary study without triggering a huge outcry. It’s almost willful ignorance to the likely consequences of their actions.


For more history, when TJ was started, they predominately pulled from Annandale and Lewis neighborhoods, students AND teachers. Not discounting any current teachers at either school now but it left a drought of interest in either and their reputations have never recovered.

I know they would never get rid of TJ now but bring programs back to the schools they were stained to rebuild. Moving boundary lines hasn’t and isn’t going to work for these schools to succeed.


TJ did not pull from Lewis. Just Annandale.
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