New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are going to have to put off having kids due to this - I’m going to need to get a new job and restart the clock to take FMLA. I’m 33 and it sucks.

As if all couples with 2 FT jobs remained childless before WFH? Seriously, you will manage with the same options that were available to working parents pre-covid- daycare, camps, babysitter, school, juggling with spouse, etc. Please stop pretending that juggling work and kids hasn’t been done before and can’t be done.

Things have changed since 2019, at least in the DMV. Aftercare is much less available, for example. You all keep positing a time before but that time no longer exists.

People aren’t factoring that inflation and the cost of living relative to incomes has skyrocketed post COVID. Everything is 30% more expensive (at least) but many of us didn’t get a corresponding 30% raise. The cost of child care has skyrocketed and availability has decreased. It’s already incredibly hard for most working parents, which also remember the number of women in the workforce has also jumped to keep pace with the cost of living. Just because you had to raise your family without some work life balance doesn’t mean it has to be that way going forward.

Also, telework was a white collar expectation pre-COVID. Why is everyone so desperate to clog up our roads and further pollute the environment because you’re mad you’re not a white collar employee able to work from home?

Well you just had a nice five-year vacation from childcare costs. That’s a *lot* of money saved that will help with future expenses.

What is wrong with you?

They are a morally bankrupt, vindictive POS, that's what's wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who moved away from the commuting area, or took fully-remote job, knew there was the chance of this happening under a different administration.

Some agencies have been offering remote and telework for 15 years or more. Sure it could happen but why would they expect their agency to go back to 90’s practices for stupid reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are going to have to put off having kids due to this - I’m going to need to get a new job and restart the clock to take FMLA. I’m 33 and it sucks.

As if all couples with 2 FT jobs remained childless before WFH? Seriously, you will manage with the same options that were available to working parents pre-covid- daycare, camps, babysitter, school, juggling with spouse, etc. Please stop pretending that juggling work and kids hasn’t been done before and can’t be done.

Things have changed since 2019, at least in the DMV. Aftercare is much less available, for example. You all keep positing a time before but that time no longer exists.

People aren’t factoring that inflation and the cost of living relative to incomes has skyrocketed post COVID. Everything is 30% more expensive (at least) but many of us didn’t get a corresponding 30% raise. The cost of child care has skyrocketed and availability has decreased. It’s already incredibly hard for most working parents, which also remember the number of women in the workforce has also jumped to keep pace with the cost of living. Just because you had to raise your family without some work life balance doesn’t mean it has to be that way going forward.

Also, telework was a white collar expectation pre-COVID. Why is everyone so desperate to clog up our roads and further pollute the environment because you’re mad you’re not a white collar employee able to work from home?

Well you just had a nice five-year vacation from childcare costs. That’s a *lot* of money saved that will help with future expenses.

Do you even know how much child care costs in the DC area? 20k per kid per year. And that’s not fancy. That’s average places.

And we did not get a break. In fact we STILL had to pay to hold our spots when our daycare closed for Covid. There was no break. There has been no break. Do not make any mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who moved away from the commuting area, or took fully-remote job, knew there was the chance of this happening under a different administration.

Some agencies have been offering remote and telework for 15 years or more. Sure it could happen but why would they expect their agency to go back to 90’s practices for stupid reasons?

I hate that argument. My uncle had one telework day in the early 2000s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

Nah, two Feds would just split shift, was very standard at my office.

But the early mornings is a pain and you still want aftercare for just in case, which is harder now because less available

The difference also is housing is so expensive for Feds now that commutes are materially different than even 5 years ago

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Yep. Before Covid one of us got up at 5am to work 7-330 to be back in time for afternoon shuffle.

We still paid for aftercare since traffic etc could throw a wrench.

You need carpools, that was key.

PP has a DH who teleworks 100%, no idea why she is freaking out, he should just take care of all the kid shuffling just like she has been. We worked with no one teleworking, but we live in an expensive, small, old shtshack because we prioritized shorter commutes over space and newness in housing.

I’m the PP with the remote DH you’re responding to and it’s hard to just say he should shuffle the kids. He is the higher earner and works with people in different time zones, so he can’t always end his day at 4 PM. I took a lower paying flexible job to help handle afternoons. I had telework before COVID so this wasn’t just a pandemic plan.

Oh and I also work in a small, older home. But my office shut down and I have no idea where I could be made to report to work. If they move my office far away it’s not easy to just give up a < 3% interest rate, so I’m not even sure I could buy a home with a shoet commute at this point.

And the people who don’t have the incomes for a nanny to shuttle kids probably also don’t have money to buy a house wherever they want, especially if they are first time buyers and/or have a spouse’s commute to take into consideration.

I get that you don’t give a crap about families’ hardships, but don’t pretend you’re morally superior because you chose a smaller house close in. A lot of us did that and then the entire fed employment structure unexpectedly changed and offices were downsized.

If he is the higher earner, enough to justify dumping everything to you, that means he makes much more than a Fed, and then you can just quit and move someplace cheaper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Yep. Before Covid one of us got up at 5am to work 7-330 to be back in time for afternoon shuffle.

We still paid for aftercare since traffic etc could throw a wrench.

You need carpools, that was key.

PP has a DH who teleworks 100%, no idea why she is freaking out, he should just take care of all the kid shuffling just like she has been. We worked with no one teleworking, but we live in an expensive, small, old shtshack because we prioritized shorter commutes over space and newness in housing.

I’m the PP with the remote DH you’re responding to and it’s hard to just say he should shuffle the kids. He is the higher earner and works with people in different time zones, so he can’t always end his day at 4 PM. I took a lower paying flexible job to help handle afternoons. I had telework before COVID so this wasn’t just a pandemic plan.

Oh and I also work in a small, older home. But my office shut down and I have no idea where I could be made to report to work. If they move my office far away it’s not easy to just give up a < 3% interest rate, so I’m not even sure I could buy a home with a shoet commute at this point.

And the people who don’t have the incomes for a nanny to shuttle kids probably also don’t have money to buy a house wherever they want, especially if they are first time buyers and/or have a spouse’s commute to take into consideration.

I get that you don’t give a crap about families’ hardships, but don’t pretend you’re morally superior because you chose a smaller house close in. A lot of us did that and then the entire fed employment structure unexpectedly changed and offices were downsized.

If he is the higher earner, enough to justify dumping everything to you, that means he makes much more than a Fed, and then you can just quit and move someplace cheaper.

Why are you in this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

Nah, two Feds would just split shift, was very standard at my office.

But the early mornings is a pain and you still want aftercare for just in case, which is harder now because less available

The difference also is housing is so expensive for Feds now that commutes are materially different than even 5 years ago

This is silly. Housing has always been expensive for feds and most have lived with ling commutes. Hence slug lines, HOV commuter vans, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are going to have to put off having kids due to this - I’m going to need to get a new job and restart the clock to take FMLA. I’m 33 and it sucks.

As if all couples with 2 FT jobs remained childless before WFH? Seriously, you will manage with the same options that were available to working parents pre-covid- daycare, camps, babysitter, school, juggling with spouse, etc. Please stop pretending that juggling work and kids hasn’t been done before and can’t be done.

Things have changed since 2019, at least in the DMV. Aftercare is much less available, for example. You all keep positing a time before but that time no longer exists.

People aren’t factoring that inflation and the cost of living relative to incomes has skyrocketed post COVID. Everything is 30% more expensive (at least) but many of us didn’t get a corresponding 30% raise. The cost of child care has skyrocketed and availability has decreased. It’s already incredibly hard for most working parents, which also remember the number of women in the workforce has also jumped to keep pace with the cost of living. Just because you had to raise your family without some work life balance doesn’t mean it has to be that way going forward.

Also, telework was a white collar expectation pre-COVID. Why is everyone so desperate to clog up our roads and further pollute the environment because you’re mad you’re not a white collar employee able to work from home?

Well you just had a nice five-year vacation from childcare costs. That’s a *lot* of money saved that will help with future expenses.

No, we didn't. We still paid for day care, except for spring 2020 when it closed for a number of weeks due to covid. We still paid 50% while not receiving any services during that time. Sorry you were misinformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Millions of people do not have nannies who shuttle their kids around. This whole response is very “let them eat cake.”

And to people saying this is how it was done before and families managed, yes I agree. They managed because there was no other option. But now technology has advanced in a way that provides life improvements for employees and more efficiencies for employers (e.g. having people available after hours, when sick, on snow days, etc.). But we are going back in time because … it’s not fair to the people who have in-person jobs and because they want to demoralize us and make us quit. Those are *literally* the reasons that this administration has cited.

It’s like all of a sudden we’re being made to resort to faxes and inter office memos. Of course people managed before there was email, but then society advanced and it would be stupid to go backwards. Especially for the “reasons” this administration has cited.

And it’s not even just RTO. It’s the insinuation by the nation’s president that the federal workforce is lazy and has not been working hard the past 5 years. That’s insulting and frankly dangerous propaganda. Regardless of how you feel about telework, the entire demeanor of how it is being handled is sketchy as hell.

There is a lot of fat that needs to be trimmed in the Federal workforce. I am married to a Fed and he agrees. Lots of hardworkers but also a lot of fluff and people just coasting. Unfortunately, the coasters aren't going to be the ones cut through the process. They'll keep hanging on with their barnacles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

I am the person who took the career hit, genius. I took a mommy-tracked, WFH job so that I could be available as soon as school got out.

And no, DH is not a high earner so that we can just hire a nanny. We are regular people trying to make it work in this area. We already stagger schedules and limit activities and all the other obvious advice that people have thrown out here.

If you consider a Fed job mommy tracked, you are supporting Trump and Musks narrative. These are professional jobs, not a hobby for when kids are at school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who moved away from the commuting area, or took fully-remote job, knew there was the chance of this happening under a different administration.

Some agencies have been offering remote and telework for 15 years or more. Sure it could happen but why would they expect their agency to go back to 90’s practices for stupid reasons?

My organization started experimenting with telework under GW Bush.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Millions of people do not have nannies who shuttle their kids around. This whole response is very “let them eat cake.”

And to people saying this is how it was done before and families managed, yes I agree. They managed because there was no other option. But now technology has advanced in a way that provides life improvements for employees and more efficiencies for employers (e.g. having people available after hours, when sick, on snow days, etc.). But we are going back in time because … it’s not fair to the people who have in-person jobs and because they want to demoralize us and make us quit. Those are *literally* the reasons that this administration has cited.

It’s like all of a sudden we’re being made to resort to faxes and inter office memos. Of course people managed before there was email, but then society advanced and it would be stupid to go backwards. Especially for the “reasons” this administration has cited.

And it’s not even just RTO. It’s the insinuation by the nation’s president that the federal workforce is lazy and has not been working hard the past 5 years. That’s insulting and frankly dangerous propaganda. Regardless of how you feel about telework, the entire demeanor of how it is being handled is sketchy as hell.

There is a lot of fat that needs to be trimmed in the Federal workforce. I am married to a Fed and he agrees. Lots of hardworkers but also a lot of fluff and people just coasting. Unfortunately, the coasters aren't going to be the ones cut through the process. They'll keep hanging on with their barnacles.

Federal pay roll has been effectively flat since 1975. There is no fat.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

Nah, two Feds would just split shift, was very standard at my office.

But the early mornings is a pain and you still want aftercare for just in case, which is harder now because less available

The difference also is housing is so expensive for Feds now that commutes are materially different than even 5 years ago

This is silly. Housing has always been expensive for feds and most have lived with ling commutes. Hence slug lines, HOV commuter vans, etc.

Those are gone now. I've been looking for a van pool and the infrastructure isn't there.

And it's ridiculous to say that housing is just as achievable for feds in 2025 as 2019. Absolutely factually wrong. Just look at Zillow.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't have school aged kids before telework so what did people do? Did people put their kids in before/aftercare/camps/school for 10 hours a day? How did people find time for extracurriculars if elementary kids are in aftercare until 5:30-6?

My kids were not yet school aged when COVID started so they were still in daycare/preschool. But even before COVID DH and I both teleworked multiple days per week so that at least one of us was home. Usually the commuting spouse would do morning drop off since they had to head out anyway and then the teleworking parent would do pickup so the kids didn’t have to be there past 5.

I think a lot of parents of school aged kids teleworked at least hybrid before COVID. It’s not like March 2020 marked the invention of WAH. For those who need longer hours, they use aftercare, but staffing has gotten harder in the childcare sector so spots are limited with long waitlists. Or maybe if you’re lucky you can find a martial arts type place that has a van to do school pickup and take them to do activities.

I also think a lot of the parents were just not in the workforce or were underemployed. I guess this administration thinks that is preferable to go back to.

My kids a now in extracurriculars starting as early as 4:30/5. To keep them in we’d have to take leave some days, use carpools, stagger hours, not really sure yet … thankfully my DH’s private sector job has been remote since 2018 and his colleagues are scattered across the country with no office to go to, so I guess he would have to take on more of the kid shuffling at home if I go back 5 days (holding out hope my agency’s CBA holds). I would try to jump ship out of government quickly though if forced to commute 5 days/week.

The schedule and juggling you describe is very normal. My husband is 5x/week and I am remote and do more juggling, but I can’t do it all while working during the day, so we have a nanny who helps after school with driving while I am working. Millions of people do this and it is not fun, but it is the norm.

Let me guess, either you don’t live in the DC area, or your husband is a high earner in the private sector. My husband and I are both feds and would not be able to afford a nanny to drive our two elementary aged kids to activities.

As others have mentioned camps alone offer garbage hours and after care to add on another $200 to a camp week that already costs $500 is cost prohibitive.

Our kids were 2 and 5 when Covid hit and we sucked it up and maintained our work performance and duties even though it felt impossible. We had no help. This feels like a real “f you” after we have been dedicated career civil servants over many years for different administrations.

We don’t have a problem with returning to the office, but, the extremism is the issue. Why strip people of flexibilities they had prior to Covid? Why suggest total eradication of telework? If we can even keep 1-2 days per week that will help most people feel like they can stay a little sane and manage all of their work/life balances and priorities.

Its tone deaf to act like this is a brand new and insurmountable problem. Many people are working in person for the last few years, many of them have kids, and many of them are not high earners.

Before and after care exists for a reason. If you cant flex your schedule you use it. And stop signing up for activities that start before 6pm.

By elementary school, every family I knew had a spouse who worked part time or SAH (or was a teacher). That’s what you have to do to avoid having kids in aftercare till 6 or to manage any after school activities.

Exactly. It’s what I did, and honestly I took a major career hit. And apparently a bunch of government employees never had to take this hit because they’re paid while they watch their kids. And now it’s ending.

We don’t watch our kids!!! They are in school and we pay for after care.

My fed office moved during Covid. It went from a 20 minute commute to what is now a 40 minute commute on a good day. I already do not full time telework.

But if I go in 5 days per week along with every other gov person my commute will likely be 1 hour plus.

We have no family locally. My spouse and I have always made it work.

But making our lives harder just for fun is stupid.

My spouse is a veteran as was my late father. We have spent our lives serving our country in various capacities. Riddle me this—is this admin, and its supporters are all pro family pro life, why is it against supporting actual families that exist?! That currently serve the American public??? Make it make sense!!

They are pro family with a working father and SAHM.