Alec Baldwin fatally shot someone on movie set with gun mishap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long work hours aren't unsafe, and not getting put up in Santa Fe hotels isn't unsafe.

Filming during covid is stressful and unfun but still happening. What happened is that someone made a mistake. Whether it was the head armorer or someone else will be determined.

^ Typed by a lazy loser who has never worked a long day in their life. Get bent you worthless jerk.

Filming involves long hours. And living in the West involves lots of driving. Santa Fe isn't Taos but it's still $$$$.

There are always massive problems during shooting. Usually, people do their jobs effectively enough for people not to die. Not this time though.

Are you the one hoping that Baldwin is charged with manslaughter?

No. I’m a member of the IA that drove 70 miles to set yesterday.

I am so sorry. What happened out there was unacceptable. Sending solidarity your way. -AFT member

Thank you. I’m currently working in the Midwest under a standard area agreement. We had a head on collision on second unit a few weeks ago. BG was in the car. No one can explain why BG was in the car. We had a teenager with a head injury for what? There doesn’t seem to have been any thing done about it. The industry has been a slow moving train wreck for a while now.

I’m so sorry. What does BG refer to?

BG - background or extra
Second Unit - is usually stunts
They had antique cars speeding around and an extra ( a minor at that) was in the car. There was a head on collision with another car and the kid slammed their head. Obviously no airbag, and I don’t believe they were wearing a seat belt. Production barely paused. Nothing happened.
No one can explain why a background person ( who is getting paid 80 bucks a day) was in a car. They aren’t trained. They aren’t stunt people.
This isn’t some low budget film. This a 200 million dollar film. I get into a van from crew parking and the driver tells me he’s on his third day of a 6 hour turn around, and he lives an hour from base camp. So here is a guy driving me and everyone else around who is getting maybe 3 hours of sleep, for 3 days in a row. That’s not safe for anyone.
The business is out of control right now, and I honestly wish the strike had happened. Someone needs to hit the pause button and get things under control.

Hollywood seems above the regulations they would force on others without hesitation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the settlements or verdicts may well hit eight figures.

meant to say 10

You're nuts. That production barely got basic insurance covered. Baldwin doesn't have it either.

No one knows what Brandon Lee's mother and fiance got but the idea of the payout even topping $5 million is practically impossible.

But Lee’s mother Linda Lee Cadwell sued Crowvision Inc. shortly after the shooting, alleging negligence supported by the NC Occupational Safety and Health Division fining the production company $84,000 for safety violations, the AP reported in 1993.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I bet most actors won't mind checking, now.

Do they even know how to? I'd argue that the armorer should be there before the film starts rolling and walk them through it. I've had about 50 hours of weapons training with highly trained professionals that do it for a living. This was training for non-military, but official travel to a dangerous area, so we were trained with live rounds. A LOT of live rounds. 50 hours is not a ton, but I bet it's more that 90% of the adult population. On my own, I could reliably clear a Glock, a shotgun (probably), and a revolver. Something antique or replica? Very hard to say.

From my training I personally would not be comfortable using a weapon where the trigger worked without personally being walked through the clearing procedure. I don't think that is the same standard for actors on set where rule #1 is NO LIVE ROUNDS.

I am VERY sure that if Hollywood would consider having someone from the NRA do a gun safety course for all involved staff of EVERY film that used guns, the NRA would be happy to do so. But most of Hollywood would say “NRA BAD” so they would not involve them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems Donald Trump Jr. is trolling Alec Baldwin.

What's wrong with the spawn of Trump? Why are they such assboils?

I guess being constantly trolled by people like Alec Baldwin isn’t being an a$$boil?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Thank you. The actor never inspects the fire arm. That’s crazy talk.
- IA member from unthread

Then an actor should never touch a firearm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"It’s the responsibility of the person holding the gun to make sure it is not loaded. Period."

Says who? In a normal situation when a person voluntarily shoots a gun without supervision, sure.

I'm not the PP, but I concur with the sentiment. I am sure actors and other staff assume and trust the armorers all the time. I just know that no one is ever going to be as concerned about my safety as I am.

I am curious to hear from people who know more about movie sets than I do why they still use weapons that can shoot anything.

I just don’t see actors stopping and checking a prop gun every time it’s handed to them and the assistant director and armorer say cold gun.

I would be terrified to point a gun to someone's head or chest without first checking if it was loaded. It takes 2 seconds. Assuming cold gun means unloaded.

No, see there's your problem. Movie set guns ARE LOADED with blanks. Blanks look like bullets. The prop person makes sure everything is safe. The actor would not be expected to check the gun every time, because it is assumed the prop person already did it. Alec Baldwin should not be held liable for this. This is a workplace accident. Just like at a factory or a construction site.

Ass-ume

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It’s the responsibility of the person holding the gun to make sure it is not loaded. Period."

Says who? In a normal situation when a person voluntarily shoots a gun without supervision, sure.

But lets say I am an actor with little or no knowledge of guns. I attend the required gun safety meeting.(Union was still there for that.) It's explained that the armorer will check the weapon. After that, the assistant director will check it to make sure it isn't loaded, and then hand it to me.

Here the gun was one of 3 guns on a cart outside the building. The armorer had checked them. The AD grabbed one off the cart. He was supposed to check it--despite several comments above that that wasn't his job, it sure sounds from reported protocols that it was. He probably should have attempted to fire it outside. We don't know it he did. Then he came into the building where AB was and handed it to AB saying "cold gun." Cold gun means there are NO blanks in the gun.

I don't think it's all that awful if the actor, who is not familiar with guns, assumes that the armorer and AD have checked the gun and there's nothing in it. AB might have thought the AD tested it outside the building where it was safer to do it. And he probably assumed that both the armorer and the AD were far more capable of checking the gun than he is.

Now there are reports that there were previous misfiring incidents. Company's release says there were no written complaints of any.

There is absolutely NO substantiated reports of ANY claim that the misfirings involved the same gun BaLdwin was using. Nor is there anything to indicate AB was aware of the misfirings. Please don't give me the "he was the producer" line. There were 3 other producers and an execurive producer.

Some of the claims that the union's complaints included gun safety were made AFTER the killing.

Neither the armorer nor the AD started working on the film after the union members quit. I have not seen ANY evidence that the presence of "scabs" was causually related in any way to the killing.

Personally, I think the union behaved badly by putting out the report that the gun had a live bullet, knowing full well that readers would think this means regular bullets.

Why don't we wait and see what the police investigation shows.

There’s a special kind of ‘I’m above it all because I’m the star’ arrogance that comes with that statement. Does not surprise me it came from someone who probably lives in the DC area, where the basic attitude is “I’m above it all - the peons do that for me”. When YOU handle a weapon, YOU are responsible for what comes out of it. I took safety lessons from a Navy Seal, and this was the first rule of thumb. The second was do not point a gun at anyone unless you intent is to kill”. So EVEN IF I’m a famous so-and-so, if the weapon is in MY hands, I not only know HOW to check that weapon, I CHECK IT. Trust but verify.

^. Another example of someone spouting off about something they don't know anything about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It’s the responsibility of the person holding the gun to make sure it is not loaded. Period."

Says who? In a normal situation when a person voluntarily shoots a gun without supervision, sure.

But lets say I am an actor with little or no knowledge of guns. I attend the required gun safety meeting.(Union was still there for that.) It's explained that the armorer will check the weapon. After that, the assistant director will check it to make sure it isn't loaded, and then hand it to me.

Here the gun was one of 3 guns on a cart outside the building. The armorer had checked them. The AD grabbed one off the cart. He was supposed to check it--despite several comments above that that wasn't his job, it sure sounds from reported protocols that it was. He probably should have attempted to fire it outside. We don't know it he did. Then he came into the building where AB was and handed it to AB saying "cold gun." Cold gun means there are NO blanks in the gun.

I don't think it's all that awful if the actor, who is not familiar with guns, assumes that the armorer and AD have checked the gun and there's nothing in it. AB might have thought the AD tested it outside the building where it was safer to do it. And he probably assumed that both the armorer and the AD were far more capable of checking the gun than he is.

Now there are reports that there were previous misfiring incidents. Company's release says there were no written complaints of any.

There is absolutely NO substantiated reports of ANY claim that the misfirings involved the same gun BaLdwin was using. Nor is there anything to indicate AB was aware of the misfirings. Please don't give me the "he was the producer" line. There were 3 other producers and an execurive producer.

Some of the claims that the union's complaints included gun safety were made AFTER the killing.

Neither the armorer nor the AD started working on the film after the union members quit. I have not seen ANY evidence that the presence of "scabs" was causually related in any way to the killing.

Personally, I think the union behaved badly by putting out the report that the gun had a live bullet, knowing full well that readers would think this means regular bullets.

Why don't we wait and see what the police investigation shows.

There’s a special kind of ‘I’m above it all because I’m the star’ arrogance that comes with that statement. Does not surprise me it came from someone who probably lives in the DC area, where the basic attitude is “I’m above it all - the peons do that for me”. When YOU handle a weapon, YOU are responsible for what comes out of it. I took safety lessons from a Navy Seal, and this was the first rule of thumb. The second was do not point a gun at anyone unless you intent is to kill”. So EVEN IF I’m a famous so-and-so, if the weapon is in MY hands, I not only know HOW to check that weapon, I CHECK IT. Trust but verify.

^. Another example of someone spouting off about something they don't know anything about.

What part of this is not logical? The arrogance in this area is beyond anything I’ve ever experienced - does your maid or butler do everything for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad that this happened to Alec Baldwin, but let's face it: if this had happened to ANYONE else, he'd be ripping them apart for it.

+1. We wouldn't give a cop this benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It’s the responsibility of the person holding the gun to make sure it is not loaded. Period."

Says who? In a normal situation when a person voluntarily shoots a gun without supervision, sure.

But lets say I am an actor with little or no knowledge of guns. I attend the required gun safety meeting.(Union was still there for that.) It's explained that the armorer will check the weapon. After that, the assistant director will check it to make sure it isn't loaded, and then hand it to me.

Here the gun was one of 3 guns on a cart outside the building. The armorer had checked them. The AD grabbed one off the cart. He was supposed to check it--despite several comments above that that wasn't his job, it sure sounds from reported protocols that it was. He probably should have attempted to fire it outside. We don't know it he did. Then he came into the building where AB was and handed it to AB saying "cold gun." Cold gun means there are NO blanks in the gun.

I don't think it's all that awful if the actor, who is not familiar with guns, assumes that the armorer and AD have checked the gun and there's nothing in it. AB might have thought the AD tested it outside the building where it was safer to do it. And he probably assumed that both the armorer and the AD were far more capable of checking the gun than he is.

Now there are reports that there were previous misfiring incidents. Company's release says there were no written complaints of any.

There is absolutely NO substantiated reports of ANY claim that the misfirings involved the same gun BaLdwin was using. Nor is there anything to indicate AB was aware of the misfirings. Please don't give me the "he was the producer" line. There were 3 other producers and an execurive producer.

Some of the claims that the union's complaints included gun safety were made AFTER the killing.

Neither the armorer nor the AD started working on the film after the union members quit. I have not seen ANY evidence that the presence of "scabs" was causually related in any way to the killing.

Personally, I think the union behaved badly by putting out the report that the gun had a live bullet, knowing full well that readers would think this means regular bullets.

Why don't we wait and see what the police investigation shows.

There’s a special kind of ‘I’m above it all because I’m the star’ arrogance that comes with that statement. Does not surprise me it came from someone who probably lives in the DC area, where the basic attitude is “I’m above it all - the peons do that for me”. When YOU handle a weapon, YOU are responsible for what comes out of it. I took safety lessons from a Navy Seal, and this was the first rule of thumb. The second was do not point a gun at anyone unless you intent is to kill”. So EVEN IF I’m a famous so-and-so, if the weapon is in MY hands, I not only know HOW to check that weapon, I CHECK IT. Trust but verify.

^. Another example of someone spouting off about something they don't know anything about.

What part of this is not logical? The arrogance in this area is beyond anything I’ve ever experienced - does your maid or butler do everything for you?

I don't know anything about actors and guns. But I listen to those people who know. And they say the actor is not supposed to check.

But you know better. Because you know better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Thank you. The actor never inspects the fire arm. That’s crazy talk.
- IA member from unthread

Then an actor should never touch a firearm.

PP, it may be that in the future there are better gun safety protocols and less gun use on set. I hope so.

But that is a different thing than stating what the rules/protocols are currently. If it is not the norm for actors to have anything to do with checking safety, and to rely on those that are hired to do so, then there is no culpabiltiy here for AB. What you think SHOULD be, is very different from what actually is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad that this happened to Alec Baldwin, but let's face it: if this had happened to ANYONE else, he'd be ripping them apart for it.

+1. We wouldn't give a cop this benefit.

+2. Definitely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad that this happened to Alec Baldwin, but let's face it: if this had happened to ANYONE else, he'd be ripping them apart for it.

+1. We wouldn't give a cop this benefit.

There was that junior cop who accidentally shot the person in the stairwell through very bad luck. He was found responsible. That was different because he knew his gun had bullets in it.

Here, by all accounts, Baldwin knew, or was told by those who should know, that the gun was cold.

If someone handed a police officer an unloaded gun and told them to shoot over there, well, they'd probably check the gun. But a regular Joe could shoot the gun and, if debris shot out, would be blameless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve worked on many movie sets and several things went wrong to culminate in an accident like this. Several people f-ed up. Alec Baldwin, as the actor, is completely blameless. No actor can or should ever examine the firearm.

Alec’s Baldwin, a producer on this film, may well bear liability however.

Thank you. The actor never inspects the fire arm. That’s crazy talk.
- IA member from unthread

Then an actor should never touch a firearm.

PP, it may be that in the future there are better gun safety protocols and less gun use on set. I hope so.

But that is a different thing than stating what the rules/protocols are currently. If it is not the norm for actors to have anything to do with checking safety, and to rely on those that are hired to do so, then there is no culpabiltiy here for AB. What you think SHOULD be, is very different from what actually is.

Exactly, why would they rely on actors to know enough about a gun to check it?

[Anonymous]

Would anyone posting here put a gun to their head and pull the trigger without checking it first, even if someone else said they checked it?