Typical FCPS ES class sizes: Past vs present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW. My kindergartener has 26 kids.

Same here. My son’s class three years ago had just 20.

My k's class has 28. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

My 5th grader originally had 22 but several kids didn’t come back, so there were only 18 - until yesterday when two new students were added. I think things are still being worked out as parents decide what they are going to do.

[Anonymous]

My first grader has 24 in her class.

[Anonymous]

DS in K has 22 in class, DS in 2nd has 26. Woodson Pyramid

[Anonymous]

Our school has 18 K kids per class. It's small. Kids must be not enrolling this year or going private. With the quarantine disruptions I do not blame them one bit.

Older kids have more typical class sizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our school has 18 K kids per class. It's small. Kids must be not enrolling this year or going private. With the quarantine disruptions I do not blame them one bit.

Older kids have more typical class sizes.

You just had a principal that was smart and hired an extra teacher, that's all. We have 4 K classes of 26-27 each. If our principal had been smart and hired an extra teacher, we could have had 5 classes of 21-22 kids

[Anonymous]

DS (4th) has had 28/29 every year until this year. He currently has 24, as does DD in 1st.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 5th grader originally had 22 but several kids didn’t come back, so there were only 18 - until yesterday when two new students were added. I think things are still being worked out as parents decide what they are going to do.

We just had a teacher quit so our very small grade-level classes are now back to the FCPS norm (24-25)

[Anonymous]

28 or more every year. 31 last year in Grade 1, we complained but nothing was done

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our school has 18 K kids per class. It's small. Kids must be not enrolling this year or going private. With the quarantine disruptions I do not blame them one bit.

Older kids have more typical class sizes.

You just had a principal that was smart and hired an extra teacher, that's all. We have 4 K classes of 26-27 each. If our principal had been smart and hired an extra teacher, we could have had 5 classes of 21-22 kids

No. I have older kids so I know. We have the same number of teachers in K as usual. In fact I believe the principal could have destaffed or moved someone and still technically been below the state threshold, but didn't.

[Anonymous]

You just had a principal that was smart and hired an extra teacher, that's all. We have 4 K classes of 26-27 each. If our principal had been smart and hired an extra teacher, we could have had 5 classes of 21-22 kids

Naive statement. Principals get staffing based on enrollment. And, it is the enrollment of the school--so principal decides which grades get the teachers. If a school has 18 kids in a class and is not a high risk school, it is likely that a teacher will be cut.

I taught in a school where we lost a teacher at the end of October and had to divvy up her kids. Very disruptive--especially to the class that was divvied up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You just had a principal that was smart and hired an extra teacher, that's all. We have 4 K classes of 26-27 each. If our principal had been smart and hired an extra teacher, we could have had 5 classes of 21-22 kids

Naive statement. Principals get staffing based on enrollment. And, it is the enrollment of the school--so principal decides which grades get the teachers. If a school has 18 kids in a class and is not a high risk school, it is likely that a teacher will be cut.

I taught in a school where we lost a teacher at the end of October and had to divvy up her kids. Very disruptive--especially to the class that was divvied up.

This sounds awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16 is not typical. My 3 kids have had 21-34 over the last decade or more.

When they had 34, do they add a teacher’s assistant? Wow.

Prior to 5th grade, it’s illegal to have more than 30 in VA.

FCPS presents averages to the public NOT how many are in the classroom for language arts +social studies and math + science.
It's illegal to have more than 24 in language arts for grades 6-12. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/quality/soq_max_class_size.pdf

Each school board shall assign licensed instructional personnel in a manner that produces
divisionwide ratios of students in average daily membership to full-time equivalent teaching
positions, excluding special education teachers, principals, assistant principals, counselors, and
librarians, that are not greater than the following ratios: (i) 24 to one in kindergarten with no
class being larger than 29 students; if the average daily membership in any kindergarten class
exceeds 24 pupils, a full-time teacher's aide shall be assigned to the class; (ii) 24 to one in
grades one, two, and three with no class being larger than 30 students; (iii) 25 to one in grades
four through six with no class being larger than 35 students; and (iv) 24 to one in English
classes in grades six through 12.

Past- parents were desperate to get their children into aap out of some base schools because of immersion. 30 and 35 were irrelevant numbers. 24:1 for English classes doesn't mean ESL but is a bogus number for fcps.

Are you sure those aren’t simply guidelines? None of the HS English classes I teach this year has an enrollment of less than thirty.

It's about time the teachers and maybe the finally activated NAACP on language arts do headcounts and call out FCPS on this one. If after decades the NAACP finally said something I can't see why they wouldn't help teachers and students with this.

Perhaps FCPS adds in any stray ESOL, librarians, SPED? IDK. 24:1 means English classes but FCPS budget calls it a base ratio. For example a school with lower % FRPM-ESL assumes a classroom to have 31 students. I learned about the 24:1 over 15 years ago when a parent of an older kid had a whopping 38 in grade 6 for pat of the core instruction [SOL].

This is why FCPS even in AP English or history might have a lower count on writing papers etc than found in private schools or IB.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY-2022-Approved-Budget.pdf p 368/531 to find easily

High School Staffing
At the high school level, class size calculations assume students enroll in seven
classes including English, and teachers have five periods with a base ratio of 31.0,
except English classes which have a base ratio of 24.0. Additionally, staffing is
provided based on students eligible for FRM and students receiving ESOL services.
The weighted factor used to allocate needs-based staffing applies to schools with
25 percent or more of their student population eligible for FRM. School principals
have flexibility in determining how positions will be used. Additional staffing is also
provided to schools with International Baccalaureate, Advanced Placement, and/or
JROTC Programs. Each school also receives other positions, such as a 1.0 assessment
coach position and a 1.0 certified athletic trainer position.

I don’t know what to do about it, though. Complain to the school counselor who packs my classes with 30 plus kids? (Some of those are AP and DE classes, by the way). He won’t listen because he doesn’t care. Same with the other folks who could potentially do something. They will just say their hands are tied for “reasons” and then I am just pegged as negative and a problem and get shafted on stuff in the future.

Supposedly the “unions” have collective bargaining but that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I don’t know. At some point, I may need to teach in a different county and state.

[Anonymous]

3rd - 24 kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:16 is not typical. My 3 kids have had 21-34 over the last decade or more.

When they had 34, do they add a teacher’s assistant? Wow.

Prior to 5th grade, it’s illegal to have more than 30 in VA.

FCPS presents averages to the public NOT how many are in the classroom for language arts +social studies and math + science.
It's illegal to have more than 24 in language arts for grades 6-12. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/quality/soq_max_class_size.pdf

Each school board shall assign licensed instructional personnel in a manner that produces
divisionwide ratios of students in average daily membership to full-time equivalent teaching
positions, excluding special education teachers, principals, assistant principals, counselors, and
librarians, that are not greater than the following ratios: (i) 24 to one in kindergarten with no
class being larger than 29 students; if the average daily membership in any kindergarten class
exceeds 24 pupils, a full-time teacher's aide shall be assigned to the class; (ii) 24 to one in
grades one, two, and three with no class being larger than 30 students; (iii) 25 to one in grades
four through six with no class being larger than 35 students; and (iv) 24 to one in English
classes in grades six through 12.

Past- parents were desperate to get their children into aap out of some base schools because of immersion. 30 and 35 were irrelevant numbers. 24:1 for English classes doesn't mean ESL but is a bogus number for fcps.

Are you sure those aren’t simply guidelines? None of the HS English classes I teach this year has an enrollment of less than thirty.

It's about time the teachers and maybe the finally activated NAACP on language arts do headcounts and call out FCPS on this one. If after decades the NAACP finally said something I can't see why they wouldn't help teachers and students with this.

Perhaps FCPS adds in any stray ESOL, librarians, SPED? IDK. 24:1 means English classes but FCPS budget calls it a base ratio. For example a school with lower % FRPM-ESL assumes a classroom to have 31 students. I learned about the 24:1 over 15 years ago when a parent of an older kid had a whopping 38 in grade 6 for pat of the core instruction [SOL].

This is why FCPS even in AP English or history might have a lower count on writing papers etc than found in private schools or IB.

https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/pdf/FY-2022-Approved-Budget.pdf p 368/531 to find easily

High School Staffing
At the high school level, class size calculations assume students enroll in seven
classes including English, and teachers have five periods with a base ratio of 31.0,
except English classes which have a base ratio of 24.0. Additionally, staffing is
provided based on students eligible for FRM and students receiving ESOL services.
The weighted factor used to allocate needs-based staffing applies to schools with
25 percent or more of their student population eligible for FRM. School principals
have flexibility in determining how positions will be used. Additional staffing is also
provided to schools with International Baccalaureate, Advanced Placement, and/or
JROTC Programs. Each school also receives other positions, such as a 1.0 assessment
coach position and a 1.0 certified athletic trainer position.

I don’t know what to do about it, though. Complain to the school counselor who packs my classes with 30 plus kids? (Some of those are AP and DE classes, by the way). He won’t listen because he doesn’t care. Same with the other folks who could potentially do something. They will just say their hands are tied for “reasons” and then I am just pegged as negative and a problem and get shafted on stuff in the future.

Supposedly the “unions” have collective bargaining but that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. I don’t know. At some point, I may need to teach in a different county and state.

No. The unions do not have collective bargaining. They just gained the possibility of collective bargaining if the school board decides to opt-in with a resolution (which they probably will do eventually), and when at least one of the "unions" says they are ready to enter into CB, and if the teachers vote enter into a CB agreement and then finally, if they vote in favor of CB they need to vote on which group will represent them in the bargaining.

Are you active in your local organization? If not, I encourage you to become active.