If you are religious, how do you feel about anti-vaxxers and QAnon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake. I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.
- I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility. I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument. If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs. If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact. (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.” You need more. Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)

You say, among other things, that "it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind."

FYI: people like me, i.e.,, people who do not believe in supernatural beings, can and do have many moral beliefs. That you assume that we do not, is evidence of narrow thinking and an alarming lack of knowledge.

Frankly, what you've written is so out of touch, that I question if you are for real, and instead are an atheist posing as a fundamentalist to hear some good arguments against what you've said. Instead, I'll post a link that explains humanism. https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake. I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.
- I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility. I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument. If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs. If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact. (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.” You need more. Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)

You say, among other things, that "it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind."

FYI: people like me, i.e.,, people who do not believe in supernatural beings, can and do have many moral beliefs. That you assume that we do not, is evidence of narrow thinking and an alarming lack of knowledge.

Frankly, what you've written is so out of touch, that I question if you are for real, and instead are an atheist posing as a fundamentalist to hear some good arguments against what you've said. Instead, I'll post a link that explains humanism. https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

Pp here. I am aware of humanism, and I like this article.
However, nothing about it has been scientifically proven. Even the idea that you have a free will to make decisions is a belief in the supernatural. All that has been scientifically proven is out biological responses to stimuli. Humanism sounds to me like another “story imagined by humans.”

Also, I am a Catholic, not a fundamentalist. And I am not posing as anything. I am enjoying this discussion though. As I said, I am very familiar with doubts, and I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I appreciate you continuing to talk with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake. I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.
- I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility. I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument. If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs. If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact. (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.” You need more. Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)

You say, among other things, that "it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind."

FYI: people like me, i.e.,, people who do not believe in supernatural beings, can and do have many moral beliefs. That you assume that we do not, is evidence of narrow thinking and an alarming lack of knowledge.

Frankly, what you've written is so out of touch, that I question if you are for real, and instead are an atheist posing as a fundamentalist to hear some good arguments against what you've said. Instead, I'll post a link that explains humanism. https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

Pp here. I am aware of humanism, and I like this article.
However, nothing about it has been scientifically proven. Even the idea that you have a free will to make decisions is a belief in the supernatural. All that has been scientifically proven is out biological responses to stimuli. Humanism sounds to me like another “story imagined by humans.”

Also, I am a Catholic, not a fundamentalist. And I am not posing as anything. I am enjoying this discussion though. As I said, I am very familiar with doubts, and I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I appreciate you continuing to talk with me.

No, all "beliefs" are not supernatural beliefs -- only the ones that conjure up supernatural beings or activities. For instance, believing in charity and goodness are not supernatural and both religious people and humanists can believe in them.

Also Humanism isn't imagined, any more than totalitarianism or democracy are imagined. Unlike religion, they are ways of thinking, believing and acting in the world that involve no supernaturalism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake. I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.
- I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility. I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument. If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs. If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact. (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.” You need more. Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)

You say, among other things, that "it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind."

FYI: people like me, i.e.,, people who do not believe in supernatural beings, can and do have many moral beliefs. That you assume that we do not, is evidence of narrow thinking and an alarming lack of knowledge.

Frankly, what you've written is so out of touch, that I question if you are for real, and instead are an atheist posing as a fundamentalist to hear some good arguments against what you've said. Instead, I'll post a link that explains humanism. https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

Pp here. I am aware of humanism, and I like this article.
However, nothing about it has been scientifically proven. Even the idea that you have a free will to make decisions is a belief in the supernatural. All that has been scientifically proven is out biological responses to stimuli. Humanism sounds to me like another “story imagined by humans.”

Also, I am a Catholic, not a fundamentalist. And I am not posing as anything. I am enjoying this discussion though. As I said, I am very familiar with doubts, and I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I appreciate you continuing to talk with me.

No, all "beliefs" are not supernatural beliefs -- only the ones that conjure up supernatural beings or activities. For instance, believing in charity and goodness are not supernatural and both religious people and humanists can believe in them.

Also Humanism isn't imagined, any more than totalitarianism or democracy are imagined. Unlike religion, they are ways of thinking, believing and acting in the world that involve no supernaturalism.

No no. I am not saying that all beliefs are supernatural. I am saying that the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural.

And of course humanism, totalitarianism, and democracy are imagined ideas. They are not scientifically proven, observable, reproducible facts. There other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:QAnon - I just feel pity for them to have been roped into the nonsense

Anti-vaxxers doesn’t equal QAnon and I would bet 99% of them have had almost every vaccine including yearly flu vaccine. So not getting the Covid vaccine isn’t being anti vaxx it’s just making a one time decision on a vaccine.

No, it is going to snowball into the return of Polio and Whooping chough etc...

And it means they are dumb and do not understand science. Pfizer and Moderna have been around for years this is not new technology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m religious and don’t know what that has to do with Qanon or antivaxxers.

“Among all religious people, white evangelical Protestants were the most likely to wholly accept QAnon, with the poll finding that 22 percent of the group fully believe the conspiracy, while 58 percent are "doubters" and only 21 percent reject it.”
https://www.newsweek.com/one-quarter-white-evangelicals-believe-qanon-storm-coming-restore-rightful-leaders-1596086

White evangelical Protestants are the most likely to be MAGAs and MAGAs are the ones who believe QAnon. Do evangelicals tend to be less educated or more naive generally, which makes them more vulnerable to believing in Q or does the evangelical fire and brimstone preaching and love of the book of Revelations somehow make Q and the coming “storm” seem plausible? In other words, do the same personal traits that cause people to be drawn to evangelical churches also make Q seem compelling or do evangelical churches actually steer people to Q? Is this correlation or causation?

[Anonymous]

I read this person Q hasn't posted in 8 months. He or she probably got COVID and died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science.

True -- science is limited to the material world. In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true. There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology? Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories. Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.

No. I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change.
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed. You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with. God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories. They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air. And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do. If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake. I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.
- I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility. I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument. If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs. If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact. (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.” You need more. Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)

You say, among other things, that "it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind."

FYI: people like me, i.e.,, people who do not believe in supernatural beings, can and do have many moral beliefs. That you assume that we do not, is evidence of narrow thinking and an alarming lack of knowledge.

Frankly, what you've written is so out of touch, that I question if you are for real, and instead are an atheist posing as a fundamentalist to hear some good arguments against what you've said. Instead, I'll post a link that explains humanism. https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/

Pp here. I am aware of humanism, and I like this article.
However, nothing about it has been scientifically proven. Even the idea that you have a free will to make decisions is a belief in the supernatural. All that has been scientifically proven is out biological responses to stimuli. Humanism sounds to me like another “story imagined by humans.”

Also, I am a Catholic, not a fundamentalist. And I am not posing as anything. I am enjoying this discussion though. As I said, I am very familiar with doubts, and I absolutely understand where you are coming from. I appreciate you continuing to talk with me.

No, all "beliefs" are not supernatural beliefs -- only the ones that conjure up supernatural beings or activities. For instance, believing in charity and goodness are not supernatural and both religious people and humanists can believe in them.

Also Humanism isn't imagined, any more than totalitarianism or democracy are imagined. Unlike religion, they are ways of thinking, believing and acting in the world that involve no supernaturalism.

No no. I am not saying that all beliefs are supernatural. I am saying that the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural.

And of course humanism, totalitarianism, and democracy are imagined ideas. They are not scientifically proven, observable, reproducible facts. There other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific.

You say, "the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural." No - you are simply wrong about that. Please ask your priest. I doubt that he will agree with you about that. It seems you are talking about personality, which differs from person to person. God and angels and fairies and saints and goblins are supernatural -- beyond and above the natural world. Personality is not.

Yes, there are "other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific" and they are not all supernatural.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No no. I am not saying that all beliefs are supernatural. I am saying that the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural.

And of course humanism, totalitarianism, and democracy are imagined ideas. They are not scientifically proven, observable, reproducible facts. There other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific.

You say, "the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural." No - you are simply wrong about that. Please ask your priest. I doubt that he will agree with you about that. It seems you are talking about personality, which differs from person to person. God and angels and fairies and saints and goblins are supernatural -- beyond and above the natural world. Personality is not.

Yes, there are "other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific" and they are not all supernatural.

1) When I say "complex biological machine," I am not talking about personality. You wouldn't talk to a priest about this...you would talk to a neurologist, a psychologist, or a psychiatrist. When I say that you are a "complex biological machine," I am talking about how your physical brain works. Neurotransmitters are released in response to hormones and external stimuli. That's it. It's complicated, but there is no outside mechanism that gives you the freedom to make a decision. You have no more free will than an ant or an amoeba. Every action you make and every thought you have is a response to a stimulus.

If you believe that there is something else, something besides external stimuli acting on your current brain state, then that is a belief in the supernatural. Either you are a complex machine acting the way your particular biology and current brain state will always act with a given stimulus, or ... you are something else.
Either there is no free will to be "ethical" or "unethical" because we are all simply acting out our biology or there is something supernatural that gives us the ability to have free will.

2) Yes, there are other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific. Thank you for finally agreeing to that. I think my initial example was that rainbows are beautiful. And no, that isn't supernatural.
My point there was not that believing that rainbows are beautiful or believing in humanism is the same as believing in God. It was just that you said that you don't believe in God because there is not scientific evidence. However, you believe in all sorts of things that don't have scientific evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are proof that God is fallible.

Lol. What does God have to do with this? He didn't force them to do any of this. He gives us free will to make our own choices in life (whether or not he disagrees with those choices).

Opiate of the masses stuff…

[Anonymous]

Lying is the key element to the whole mess.

What do their bibles say about that little word?


Treating others with kindness. What do their bibles say about that act?

Yeah, Q and religious POS claiming they read their bibles, HAHAHAHAHA no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No no. I am not saying that all beliefs are supernatural. I am saying that the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural.

And of course humanism, totalitarianism, and democracy are imagined ideas. They are not scientifically proven, observable, reproducible facts. There other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific.

You say, "the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural." No - you are simply wrong about that. Please ask your priest. I doubt that he will agree with you about that. It seems you are talking about personality, which differs from person to person. God and angels and fairies and saints and goblins are supernatural -- beyond and above the natural world. Personality is not.

Yes, there are "other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific" and they are not all supernatural.

1) When I say "complex biological machine," I am not talking about personality. You wouldn't talk to a priest about this...you would talk to a neurologist, a psychologist, or a psychiatrist. When I say that you are a "complex biological machine," I am talking about how your physical brain works. Neurotransmitters are released in response to hormones and external stimuli. That's it. It's complicated, but there is no outside mechanism that gives you the freedom to make a decision. You have no more free will than an ant or an amoeba. Every action you make and every thought you have is a response to a stimulus.

If you believe that there is something else, something besides external stimuli acting on your current brain state, then that is a belief in the supernatural. Either you are a complex machine acting the way your particular biology and current brain state will always act with a given stimulus, or ... you are something else.
Either there is no free will to be "ethical" or "unethical" because we are all simply acting out our biology or there is something supernatural that gives us the ability to have free will.

2) Yes, there are other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific. Thank you for finally agreeing to that. I think my initial example was that rainbows are beautiful. And no, that isn't supernatural.
My point there was not that believing that rainbows are beautiful or believing in humanism is the same as believing in God. It was just that you said that you don't believe in God because there is not scientific evidence. However, you believe in all sorts of things that don't have scientific evidence.

It seems like you have limited knowledge of what it means to not believe in god. I have not disagreed that there are other kinds of knowledge in the world besides scientific and did not say the lack of God belief comes from lack of scientific evidence. You seem bent on demonstrating supernatural beliefs among people who do not hold them, to the point of redefining supernatural.

You seem happy in your Catholic faith. I was too, many years ago and still enjoy some of the ritualistic aspects of it and love some of the beautiful music composed for it. I suggest that you just enjoy your religion and not try to tell those of us who do not share it what or how we think.

[Anonymous]

I'm religious.

There is a famous person in the bible, "The Accuser."

In Hebrew, his name translates to Satan.

His reason for being is to accuse people.

Thus, the Spirit of Accusation is Satanic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm religious.

There is a famous person in the bible, "The Accuser."

In Hebrew, his name translates to Satan.

His reason for being is to accuse people.

Thus, the Spirit of Accusation is Satanic.

If you believe that stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No no. I am not saying that all beliefs are supernatural. I am saying that the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural.

And of course humanism, totalitarianism, and democracy are imagined ideas. They are not scientifically proven, observable, reproducible facts. There other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific.

You say, "the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural." No - you are simply wrong about that. Please ask your priest. I doubt that he will agree with you about that. It seems you are talking about personality, which differs from person to person. God and angels and fairies and saints and goblins are supernatural -- beyond and above the natural world. Personality is not.

Yes, there are "other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific" and they are not all supernatural.

1) When I say "complex biological machine," I am not talking about personality. You wouldn't talk to a priest about this...you would talk to a neurologist, a psychologist, or a psychiatrist. When I say that you are a "complex biological machine," I am talking about how your physical brain works. Neurotransmitters are released in response to hormones and external stimuli. That's it. It's complicated, but there is no outside mechanism that gives you the freedom to make a decision. You have no more free will than an ant or an amoeba. Every action you make and every thought you have is a response to a stimulus.

If you believe that there is something else, something besides external stimuli acting on your current brain state, then that is a belief in the supernatural. Either you are a complex machine acting the way your particular biology and current brain state will always act with a given stimulus, or ... you are something else.
Either there is no free will to be "ethical" or "unethical" because we are all simply acting out our biology or there is something supernatural that gives us the ability to have free will.

2) Yes, there are other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific. Thank you for finally agreeing to that. I think my initial example was that rainbows are beautiful. And no, that isn't supernatural.
My point there was not that believing that rainbows are beautiful or believing in humanism is the same as believing in God. It was just that you said that you don't believe in God because there is not scientific evidence. However, you believe in all sorts of things that don't have scientific evidence.

It seems like you have limited knowledge of what it means to not believe in god. I have not disagreed that there are other kinds of knowledge in the world besides scientific and did not say the lack of God belief comes from lack of scientific evidence. You seem bent on demonstrating supernatural beliefs among people who do not hold them, to the point of redefining supernatural.

You seem happy in your Catholic faith. I was too, many years ago and still enjoy some of the ritualistic aspects of it and love some of the beautiful music composed for it. I suggest that you just enjoy your religion and not try to tell those of us who do not share it what or how we think.

We haven’t been talking about my faith. We have been talking about yours. I am not the one who linked an article sharing my beliefs, and this discussion took a turn when you did though. I mentioned that

I am not redefining supernatural. The belief in free will requires a belief in the soul or a belief in the supernatural. Most atheists are moral relativists and do not believe in good, bad, right, or wrong.
If you don’t believe me, then you should consider reading this scientific book about human behavior written by an atheist and a psychologist. It is not a religious book, and is part of popular culture and was all over mainstream media for a minute a few years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Behave-Biology-Humans-Best-Worst/dp/0143110918/ref=asc_df_0143110918/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312064598816&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2246847218328750960&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9024584&hvtargid=pla-469024892366&psc=1