Reply to If you are religious, how do you feel about anti-vaxxers and QAnon?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Science can’t measure or test or prove or disprove anything about religion, God, or eternal life. It doesn’t have the capabilities to do so. It’s beyond the reach of science. [/quote]

True -- science is limited to the material world.  In addition to not being able to disprove God, religion or eternal life, it also can't prove or disprove ghosts, goblins, fairies, monsters or anything else that people imagine.

Religion, fairy tales, mythology and any other stories imagined by humans are beyond the scope of science.[/quote]

It also can’t prove that rainbows are beautiful or that it’s wrong to rape your mother but we all know those things are true.  There are other kinds of knowledge besides Science and direct observation.

Or maybe you see all beauty and morality as a “story imagined by humans.”  [/quote]

Feeling insulted that religion is being lumped in with fairy tales and mythology?  Too bad, because the similarity is that they are all based on stories.  Lovely stories in some cases and scary stories in other cases, but still stories.[/quote]

No.  I don’t feel insulted any more than I would feel insulted if you told me that there is no such thing as climate change. 
It makes me sad, kind of sorry for you, and kind of overwhelmed.  You are wrong, you will not open your mind even the smallest bit to the possibility that you are wrong, and you are representative of a large group of people that I, and my children, will have to live with.  God, philosophy, and morality are not fairy stories.  They are real truths that tell you about yourself and help you figure out how to live your life.

Without a real God, understanding of philosophy, and set of moral beliefs, then everything is kind of up in the air.  And then yes, I agree, there is no difference between Qanon and any other way of thinking or being.

[/quote]

- Consider that when your children grow up, they may not believe the same things as you do.  If often happens that way.
- Consider that my mind has opened and seen that the lack of gods is more plausible than their existence.
- Consider that your sentence beginning with "Without a real God" is your belief and not a fact.[/quote]

- When my children grow up, they likely will not see the world exactly the way that I do, but I hope they will have enough humility to recognize that there is a right and a wrong, to try to do right, and to recognize and ask forgiveness when they make a mistake.  I wish for them that they were growing up in a world full of people who thought and behaved that way, and, as I said, it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind.  
-  I would be interested to hear about your thoughts on God, what you read, and what you thought when your mind was opened to that plausibility.  I’m not sure that there is anyone alone who hasn’t had the experience of not believing, so you will forgive me if I find that less interesting.  
- It is not a scientific fact, but it is a logical argument.  If you do not believe that there is any one set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, and you are a complete moral relativist, then you see any one set of beliefs as valid as any other set of beliefs.  If you believe that there is a set of moral codes that all of humanity should follow, then you DO believe that there are truths that exist outside the realm of science and observable fact.  (I’m not saying that this means that God exists, just that you cannot say that lack of observable proof means “not God.”  You need more.   Very real and important truths can exists outside the realm of scientific scrutiny.)[/quote]

You say, among other things, that "it makes me a little sad to know that they are going to be living in a world of people, like yourself, who hold no beliefs and just sway in the wind."

FYI:  people like me, i.e.,, people who do not believe in supernatural beings, can and do have many moral beliefs.  That you assume that we do not, is evidence of narrow thinking and an alarming lack of knowledge.
 :!: 
Frankly, what you've written is so out of touch, that I question if you are for real, and instead are an atheist posing as a fundamentalist to hear some good arguments against what you've said. Instead, I'll post a link that explains humanism. https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/definition-of-humanism/[/quote]

Pp here.  I am aware of humanism, and I like this article.  
However, nothing about it has been scientifically proven.  Even the idea that you have a free will to make decisions is a belief in the supernatural.  All that has been scientifically proven is out biological responses to stimuli.  Humanism sounds to me like another “story imagined by humans.”

Also, I am a Catholic, not a fundamentalist.  And I am not posing as anything.  I am enjoying this discussion though.  As I said, I am very familiar with doubts, and I absolutely understand where you are coming from.  I appreciate you continuing to talk with me.  [/quote]

No, all "beliefs" are not supernatural beliefs -- only the ones that conjure up supernatural beings or activities.  For instance, believing in charity and goodness are not supernatural and both religious people and humanists can believe in them.

Also Humanism isn't imagined, any more than totalitarianism or democracy are imagined.   Unlike religion, they are ways of thinking, believing and acting in the world that involve no supernaturalism.[/quote]

No no.  I am not saying that all beliefs are supernatural.  I am saying that the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural.

And of course humanism, totalitarianism, and democracy are imagined ideas.  They are not scientifically proven, observable, reproducible facts.  There other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific.  [/quote]

You say, "the idea that you have a free will to act in one way or another and aren’t simply a complex biological machine is a belief in the supernatural."  No - you are simply wrong about that.  Please ask your priest.  I doubt that he will agree with you about that.  It seems you are talking about personality, which differs from person to person.  God and angels and fairies and saints and goblins are supernatural --  beyond and above the natural world. Personality is not.

Yes, there are "other kinds of knowledge in the world besides the scientific"  and they are not all supernatural.[/quote]

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