Lapsed Catholics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

No, it had nothing to do with my parents.

We left because of a.) priest sex abuse scandals; b.) no female priests; and c.) anti-gay teachings.

Several of my gay friends have told me they have found Catholic parishes they love, so I'm willing to bend on that one. The sex abuse is hard to overlook, though. Still, I miss many things about it. The rituals, the calming feeling of a Mass, the simplicity.

You might try an Episcopal church. A very similar liturgy (even some of the same songs), centered on the Eucharist, but with female and/or gay priests permitted. I can't say that there's never been a sex abuse scandal, because there are scandals wherever there are people, but the structure and involvement of the laity in church leadership means that, among other things, the church can't just shuffle the offender off to another parish.

Except joining a non-catholic church is a mortal sin for Catholics.

But at the point at which a Catholic can't morally stomach attending a Catholic church any more, I think they've pretty much left behind the idea that the Catholic Church really gets to decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Last I heard, that's a call God makes.

If you believe in him and/or think that God goes by the rules of the Catholic church

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

No, it had nothing to do with my parents.

We left because of a.) priest sex abuse scandals; b.) no female priests; and c.) anti-gay teachings.

Several of my gay friends have told me they have found Catholic parishes they love, so I'm willing to bend on that one. The sex abuse is hard to overlook, though. Still, I miss many things about it. The rituals, the calming feeling of a Mass, the simplicity.

You might try an Episcopal church. A very similar liturgy (even some of the same songs), centered on the Eucharist, but with female and/or gay priests permitted. I can't say that there's never been a sex abuse scandal, because there are scandals wherever there are people, but the structure and involvement of the laity in church leadership means that, among other things, the church can't just shuffle the offender off to another parish.

Except joining a non-catholic church is a mortal sin for Catholics.

But at the point at which a Catholic can't morally stomach attending a Catholic church any more, I think they've pretty much left behind the idea that the Catholic Church really gets to decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Last I heard, that's a call God makes.

If you believe in him and/or think that God goes by the rules of the Catholic church

You missed my point. My point is that the Catholic Church is arrogant in saying that they can decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Obviously, if you don't believe in God, this whole conversation is irrelevant. But also, if you don't follow the Catholic Church and have decided to leave it (especially if you truly believe it embodies evil in its handling of pedophilia), you really don't care if the Catholic Church thinks you're committing a mortal sin.

[Anonymous]

One of my childhood friends wrote a book about it, too!
So proud of him. He had great parents and a great family, and I did too to a lesser degree, so maybe this is non-responsive to the “anything your parents did?” question, but what Tom experienced is a larger perspective of what made me leave.

https://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Gay-Priest-Catholic-Seminary/dp/1609387090

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

No, it had nothing to do with my parents.

We left because of a.) priest sex abuse scandals; b.) no female priests; and c.) anti-gay teachings.

Several of my gay friends have told me they have found Catholic parishes they love, so I'm willing to bend on that one. The sex abuse is hard to overlook, though. Still, I miss many things about it. The rituals, the calming feeling of a Mass, the simplicity.

You might try an Episcopal church. A very similar liturgy (even some of the same songs), centered on the Eucharist, but with female and/or gay priests permitted. I can't say that there's never been a sex abuse scandal, because there are scandals wherever there are people, but the structure and involvement of the laity in church leadership means that, among other things, the church can't just shuffle the offender off to another parish.

Except joining a non-catholic church is a mortal sin for Catholics.

But at the point at which a Catholic can't morally stomach attending a Catholic church any more, I think they've pretty much left behind the idea that the Catholic Church really gets to decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Last I heard, that's a call God makes.

If you believe in him and/or think that God goes by the rules of the Catholic church

You missed my point. My point is that the Catholic Church is arrogant in saying that they can decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Obviously, if you don't believe in God, this whole conversation is irrelevant. But also, if you don't follow the Catholic Church and have decided to leave it (especially if you truly believe it embodies evil in its handling of pedophilia), you really don't care if the Catholic Church thinks you're committing a mortal sin.

Got it -- also applies to people who don't believe in God

[Anonymous]

My parents were great; loved all people, hated racists, welcomed gay friends, active in our parish and had five kids. They could not have done more to better raise us in the Vatican II church.

Basically, John Paul II ran almost every younger person I knew out of the church. I come from a big Catholic church and have dozens of first and second cousins who get together every summer. I can count on one hand the number of people who stayed in the church. I found the Church to be backward, misogynist, intolerant, vain, greedy and hateful.

Even my mom stopped going when the child abuse legacy became too massive to be denied.

I used to say the Church was "rotten to the core" but my (former nun) cousin corrected me to say that it is "rotten at the top". Millions of good people in the church are doing great works of faith throughout the world. It is the Vatican and the Bishops who are proven criminals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents were great; loved all people, hated racists, welcomed gay friends, active in our parish and had five kids. They could not have done more to better raise us in the Vatican II church.

Basically, John Paul II ran almost every younger person I knew out of the church. I come from a big Catholic church and have dozens of first and second cousins who get together every summer. I can count on one hand the number of people who stayed in the church. I found the Church to be backward, misogynist, intolerant, vain, greedy and hateful.

Even my mom stopped going when the child abuse legacy became too massive to be denied.

I used to say the Church was "rotten to the core" but my (former nun) cousin corrected me to say that it is "rotten at the top". Millions of good people in the church are doing great works of faith throughout the world. It is the Vatican and the Bishops who are proven criminals.

What you used to say is not wrong. Plenty of everyday priests and deacons are sexually abusing kids. That “core” is fairly rotten!

Also lol at “loved all people, hated racists.” Racists aren’t part of all people? Racism is hate and it’s gross, sure. But hating people because they hate people? The church is layers and layers of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents were great; loved all people, hated racists, welcomed gay friends, active in our parish and had five kids. They could not have done more to better raise us in the Vatican II church.

Basically, John Paul II ran almost every younger person I knew out of the church. I come from a big Catholic church and have dozens of first and second cousins who get together every summer. I can count on one hand the number of people who stayed in the church. I found the Church to be backward, misogynist, intolerant, vain, greedy and hateful.

Even my mom stopped going when the child abuse legacy became too massive to be denied.

I used to say the Church was "rotten to the core" but my (former nun) cousin corrected me to say that it is "rotten at the top". Millions of good people in the church are doing great works of faith throughout the world. It is the Vatican and the Bishops who are proven criminals.

Good people can do good works without being associated with an institution that is rotten at the top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents were great; loved all people, hated racists, welcomed gay friends, active in our parish and had five kids. They could not have done more to better raise us in the Vatican II church.

Basically, John Paul II ran almost every younger person I knew out of the church. I come from a big Catholic church and have dozens of first and second cousins who get together every summer. I can count on one hand the number of people who stayed in the church. I found the Church to be backward, misogynist, intolerant, vain, greedy and hateful.

Even my mom stopped going when the child abuse legacy became too massive to be denied.

I used to say the Church was "rotten to the core" but my (former nun) cousin corrected me to say that it is "rotten at the top". Millions of good people in the church are doing great works of faith throughout the world. It is the Vatican and the Bishops who are proven criminals.

If doctrine can be considered at least part of the core of the Church, then indeed rotten throughout it is. Don’t try to defend the indefensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents were great; loved all people, hated racists, welcomed gay friends, active in our parish and had five kids. They could not have done more to better raise us in the Vatican II church.

Basically, John Paul II ran almost every younger person I knew out of the church. I come from a big Catholic church and have dozens of first and second cousins who get together every summer. I can count on one hand the number of people who stayed in the church. I found the Church to be backward, misogynist, intolerant, vain, greedy and hateful.

Even my mom stopped going when the child abuse legacy became too massive to be denied.

I used to say the Church was "rotten to the core" but my (former nun) cousin corrected me to say that it is "rotten at the top". Millions of good people in the church are doing great works of faith throughout the world. It is the Vatican and the Bishops who are proven criminals.

If doctrine can be considered at least part of the core of the Church, then indeed rotten throughout it is. Don’t try to defend the indefensible.

+1. There were good Germans during WWII, working in the resistance, but they were stuck in Nazi Germany. Current Catholics are not stuck in the church. They can leave at any time and many have. Those who haven't left either like the church the way it is or are making excuses for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

No, it had nothing to do with my parents.

We left because of a.) priest sex abuse scandals; b.) no female priests; and c.) anti-gay teachings.

Several of my gay friends have told me they have found Catholic parishes they love, so I'm willing to bend on that one. The sex abuse is hard to overlook, though. Still, I miss many things about it. The rituals, the calming feeling of a Mass, the simplicity.

You might try an Episcopal church. A very similar liturgy (even some of the same songs), centered on the Eucharist, but with female and/or gay priests permitted. I can't say that there's never been a sex abuse scandal, because there are scandals wherever there are people, but the structure and involvement of the laity in church leadership means that, among other things, the church can't just shuffle the offender off to another parish.

Except joining a non-catholic church is a mortal sin for Catholics.

But at the point at which a Catholic can't morally stomach attending a Catholic church any more, I think they've pretty much left behind the idea that the Catholic Church really gets to decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Last I heard, that's a call God makes.

If you believe in him and/or think that God goes by the rules of the Catholic church

You missed my point. My point is that the Catholic Church is arrogant in saying that they can decide what is and is not a mortal sin. Obviously, if you don't believe in God, this whole conversation is irrelevant. But also, if you don't follow the Catholic Church and have decided to leave it (especially if you truly believe it embodies evil in its handling of pedophilia), you really don't care if the Catholic Church thinks you're committing a mortal sin.

Exactly. This is where I've landed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

I think too much Catholicism poisoned me. We went to Catholic school k - 12, went to church, etc. etc. It was just too much. That coupled with the "issues" you are well aware of, the whole thing just made me want to vomit. So I left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please don’t criticize me for choosing to be a practicing catholic and raising my kids in the faith.

But, if you are a lapsed catholic, is there anything your parents did or did not do that contributed to you wanting to leave the church? I don’t care about any of the issues with the church. I’m well aware of the issues. But, when it came to family devotions, practices, schooling, etc...do you think your parents did or didn’t do anything that factored into your teen/adult thoughts and choices?

Sounds like you're looking for ways to keep your kids Catholic despite all the awful stuff that has happened in the Church. I doubt that there is a solution to your dilemma, OP, because people think for themselves - even kids - on all sorts of issues, despite childhood activities and what they are taught at home.

Also, consider asking yourself WHY you want to keep them Catholic when so many have left the Church for good reasons? Your kids can grow up to be good people without being Catholic.

It might be more convenient for you if everyone in your family were the same religion, but that's not how it works. People grow up to make their own choices and to think for themselves.

[Anonymous]

It is also so rich to me that all the parochial schools are justifying their in-person classes with “every family has to make the decision that’s right for them!” Really??? So, like, now we’re all about choice, are we? If I pay the church tuition, can I have an abortion? Is that the fix? (Indulgences?) I hate it all.

[Anonymous]

I stopped attending mass out of laziness. My husband was raised Catholic, but never was into it.

When our LO started school, we agreed on Catholic bc smaller classes and the teaching of goodness, etc.

As it turns out, her school and teaching has drawn us back into the faith and now is stronger than ever.

There are some wonderful podcasts for Catholic women or for families. I definitely recommend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my case my parents took us to church on Sundays but that was about it - in high school and early in college I went to church and religious education on my own, but ultimately I didn't find what I was seeking and just realized that I don't really believe in it at all. My mom will still say "pray for so and so" to me but I haven't prayed for 25+ years.

Even when I believed, I didn't pray. I knew all the prayers, but couldn't imagine how god could listen to prayers from everyone and it was pretty clear that he didn't answer most of them

It sounds like you were given too literal a lesson on what prayer is and were jaded because that was wrong.