Books on Russians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russians are Europeans in many ways, except for its lack of respect for the individual and totalitarian history. The ultimate power is the power of the state and a dictator, which is true today. Just like in Europe, there no 1st or 2nd amendment and a lot of corruption. Many elderly people dumpster dive to get by because the government pension is tiny. Only in Moscow and St Petersburg people have a decent standard of living.

Respect for the individual vs. the state is a continuum. Your preferred point on the continuum will depend on so many factors.

Civilization is made up of many factors - electricity, running water, the Internet, books, opera houses, theatres, universities, hospitals, trade, technology, science, medicine, the rule of law, human rights, etiquette, clothes, and food.

In that sense, Russia is a lesser civilization. It has culture - ballet, classical music, opera houses, theatres, books, universities (underfunded). People have electricity, running water, the Internet at home. Abundant food and clothes are still not attainable for many. When it comes to trade, technology, science, medicine, the rule of law, human rights Russia is far behind the Western nations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My parents, the Soviet equivalent to baby boomers, were the first generation in Russian history to not experience famine. My grandmother experienced it as did her parents, and she did not know her grandparents, they died young. The average Russians were chronically malnourished. That is why child mortality rates and death rates from measles, typhus, scarlet fever, whooping cough had Russia at first place per 100,000 people.

I don't know what to tell you. My parents were born in the 1930s and the 1940s so whatever equivalency to the boomers you were using. My father came from a family of railway workers. My mother was a daughter of a well-to-do baker. None knew famine before the war came. My mother and her three siblings were orphaned when their parents perished - father killed at the front and mother of TB. My mother was five at the time. All four kids went to the state orphanage where they were fed and clothed as well as wartime Russia allowed. All were also educated to become self-sufficient upon graduation (from the Leningrad conservatory in my mother's case). None became a street kid, was abused or starved or lost in the great wartime vortex. All siblings went on to marry and have children of their own and maintain close ties.

My generation (born in the 70s) was vaccinated religiously so not sure what you mean about the rates of infectious disease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russians are Europeans in many ways, except for its lack of respect for the individual and totalitarian history. The ultimate power is the power of the state and a dictator, which is true today. Just like in Europe, there no 1st or 2nd amendment and a lot of corruption. Many elderly people dumpster dive to get by because the government pension is tiny. Only in Moscow and St Petersburg people have a decent standard of living.

What history books have you been reading? Pretty much every modern European country evolved from agrarian oligarchy. Even when individual rights may have been achieved in country, many European nations have a shameful colonial histories and experience with totalitarian leaders.

Also, Russia has many non-Europeans—Turkic, Uralic, Indo-European, Caucasian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My parents, the Soviet equivalent to baby boomers, were the first generation in Russian history to not experience famine. My grandmother experienced it as did her parents, and she did not know her grandparents, they died young. The average Russians were chronically malnourished. That is why child mortality rates and death rates from measles, typhus, scarlet fever, whooping cough had Russia at first place per 100,000 people.

I don't know what to tell you. My parents were born in the 1930s and the 1940s so whatever equivalency to the boomers you were using. My father came from a family of railway workers. My mother was a daughter of a well-to-do baker. None knew famine before the war came. My mother and her three siblings were orphaned when their parents perished - father killed at the front and mother of TB. My mother was five at the time. All four kids went to the state orphanage where they were fed and clothed as well as wartime Russia allowed. All were also educated to become self-sufficient upon graduation (from the Leningrad conservatory in my mother's case). None became a street kid, was abused or starved or lost in the great wartime vortex. All siblings went on to marry and have children of their own and maintain close ties.

My generation (born in the 70s) was vaccinated religiously so not sure what you mean about the rates of infectious disease.

Boomers means born after 1945.

This was my family experience. Some of my friends’ grandparents starved and others did not. Access to food and famine before WWII was a huge issue in Russian history. It touched significant populations. My mother never starved, but she had spiradic access to food when she visited her grandparents in a Russian village and when she went away to college in the 70s. The reason why so many Russians left their country or want to leave speaks volumes in and of itself. It is not Americans who wish to move to Russia. Russia may be nice to visit, but it is not a nice place to live. Hence you and I are here in the US. Soviet Union was a nanny state, which left many government-dependent people totally helpless and vulnerable after the Soviet Union fell apart. Many people did not know how make independent living, were economically and psychologically illiterate.You should check out an interview on BBC Russia with a widow of Vasily Ignatenko who was featured in Chernobyl on HBO. In 1986-87, she was offered to move to five western countries, including the US, Germany, France and Canada with housing, medical care and a job. The Soviet government told her to refuse a better life because it would have created a negative image of the USSR. HBO Chernobyl series beautifully and respectfully portrays the government’s disregard for human life in the name of the reputation on the world stage.

[Anonymous]

I guarantee you the people on here bashing certain scholars haven’t read any books by them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russians are Europeans in many ways, except for its lack of respect for the individual and totalitarian history. The ultimate power is the power of the state and a dictator, which is true today. Just like in Europe, there no 1st or 2nd amendment and a lot of corruption. Many elderly people dumpster dive to get by because the government pension is tiny. Only in Moscow and St Petersburg people have a decent standard of living.

What history books have you been reading? Pretty much every modern European country evolved from agrarian oligarchy. Even when individual rights may have been achieved in country, many European nations have a shameful colonial histories and experience with totalitarian leaders.

Also, Russia has many non-Europeans—Turkic, Uralic, Indo-European, Caucasian.

Any history book would tell you as much. Russians historically comprised close to 80% of the population. Other minorities were non-European and on par with their non-European counterparts in mentality, religion and culture. I don’t think that the OP is interested in Chechens, Tatars, Bashkirs, Yakuts, Buryats, and other forty or so ethnic minorities. Some of these minorities also participated in the wider Russian culture and politics. The Jewish minorities actively contributed to Russian culture and science, for instance, and many were persecuted and discriminated against, which made them change their names and hide their identity.

Europe was more prosperous and educated than Russia. And the countries that were colonized by Europeans had roads, hospitals, schools and now enjoy a richer life and better opportunities than the equivalent never colonized countries. Look up the statistics, and former colonies would have much better living standards. But then again, we need to compare how the governments of Europe and Russia in the same historic period treat their own people, not people on the other side of the world. Russia has been notorious for disregarding and disrespecting its own people. They would say “so what? Women can just give birth to more”.

Russian agrarian resources and the quality of arable land was not on par with European lands. However, Russian landowners looked at European aristocracy and wanted to ape their lifestyles, even though it would deprive their serfs of 30% of necessary daily calories. European peasants did not starve and die at the same rates. European peasants were not prohibited from attending universities, unlike Russian peasants. You can look and compare European and Russian literacy rates, class structure, the numbers of artists, artisans, merchants, writers, philosophers, engineers, doctors, teachers, scientists, composers, inventors, innkeepers, manufacturers per 100,000 in the 19th century. That should tell you all you need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My parents, the Soviet equivalent to baby boomers, were the first generation in Russian history to not experience famine. My grandmother experienced it as did her parents, and she did not know her grandparents, they died young. The average Russians were chronically malnourished. That is why child mortality rates and death rates from measles, typhus, scarlet fever, whooping cough had Russia at first place per 100,000 people.

I don't know what to tell you. My parents were born in the 1930s and the 1940s so whatever equivalency to the boomers you were using. My father came from a family of railway workers. My mother was a daughter of a well-to-do baker. None knew famine before the war came. My mother and her three siblings were orphaned when their parents perished - father killed at the front and mother of TB. My mother was five at the time. All four kids went to the state orphanage where they were fed and clothed as well as wartime Russia allowed. All were also educated to become self-sufficient upon graduation (from the Leningrad conservatory in my mother's case). None became a street kid, was abused or starved or lost in the great wartime vortex. All siblings went on to marry and have children of their own and maintain close ties.

My generation (born in the 70s) was vaccinated religiously so not sure what you mean about the rates of infectious disease.

Boomers means born after 1945.

This was my family experience. Some of my friends’ grandparents starved and others did not. Access to food and famine before WWII was a huge issue in Russian history. It touched significant populations. My mother never starved, but she had spiradic access to food when she visited her grandparents in a Russian village and when she went away to college in the 70s. The reason why so many Russians left their country or want to leave speaks volumes in and of itself. It is not Americans who wish to move to Russia. Russia may be nice to visit, but it is not a nice place to live. Hence you and I are here in the US. Soviet Union was a nanny state, which left many government-dependent people totally helpless and vulnerable after the Soviet Union fell apart. Many people did not know how make independent living, were economically and psychologically illiterate.You should check out an interview on BBC Russia with a widow of Vasily Ignatenko who was featured in Chernobyl on HBO. In 1986-87, she was offered to move to five western countries, including the US, Germany, France and Canada with housing, medical care and a job. The Soviet government told her to refuse a better life because it would have created a negative image of the USSR. HBO Chernobyl series beautifully and respectfully portrays the government’s disregard for human life in the name of the reputation on the world stage.

As a matter of fact, the reason I'm here is not because Russia isn't a nice place to live but let's leave that out for now.

The world is not black and white, and migration flows alone aren't enough to put together a nuanced picture. Very few countries attract migrants; should all others be summarily dismissed? There are good sides and bad sides to all societies. I consider it a sign of weakness to talk crap about your homeland. There's enough disregard for human life among all governments to go around.

Actually Moscow is a perfectly pleasant place to live these days, and extremely child-friendly. We have the BEST time when we visit. There's SO much to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I loved reading “A Gentleman in Moscow”, which is fiction.

I also loved The Goldfinch, but there is only one character who is Russian, and it’s also fiction.

That character is Ukrainian, NOT Russian! I lived in Ukraine for many years, and can say that many would be horrified at this mixup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Any history book would tell you as much. Russians historically comprised close to 80% of the population. Other minorities were non-European and on par with their non-European counterparts in mentality, religion and culture. I don’t think that the OP is interested in Chechens, Tatars, Bashkirs, Yakuts, Buryats, and other forty or so ethnic minorities. Some of these minorities also participated in the wider Russian culture and politics. The Jewish minorities actively contributed to Russian culture and science, for instance, and many were persecuted and discriminated against, which made them change their names and hide their identity.

Forty? Dagestan ALONE has over eighty ethnicities, you dolt!

Anonymous wrote:
Europe was more prosperous and educated than Russia. And the countries that were colonized by Europeans had roads, hospitals, schools and now enjoy a richer life and better opportunities than the equivalent never colonized countries. Look up the statistics, and former colonies would have much better living standards.

Oooh that's right, white people left them much better off, what are they complaining about! Hey, if I leave your daughter better off than her neighbor, may I colonize her for a few years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the book on red terror
They were as bad if not worse than the Nazis
Read on what they did to the Baltic republic's. The president of Estonia was arrested with his family. His young son starved to death in a Russian orphanage
Many have called for a Nuremberg type trial for red crimes, it just has not happened

The Baltics? That's so awesome, coming from them. Seeing as most Jews in the Baltics were rounded up not by the Nazis but by their erstwhile local talent. So I guess the Jews of Latvia, say, never found out if Russians would be worse than the Nazis but they definitely did found out that the Latvians were as good as.

Molotov Rippentrop
Estonia and Latvia were occupied by Soviets before Germany attacked Russia
Lots of civilians were put on train and deported to the Soviet Union, some were Jewish
The gulag in the archangel region had a lot of Latvian Jews
When Russians had to retreat the gave Germans the complete list of the regions Jews, as they had already compiled the list

Some were put on trains because their home looked classier than the neighbors, others needed to go because the city was to the east of the country and had to become Russian, others were hounded because they had joined organizations, like ladies embroidery, which was then declared counter revolutionary, others became enemies of the people because they were not in professions like: peasant

Why don't you tell us about the warm welcome the Baltics threw to the advancing Nazis? And the rich and varied history of their collaborators?

Sorry, conguerers are in control
Not conguered people, bad things happened for sure, but that doesn't leave the conguerers off the hook. Soviets did collaborate with the Germans. One believed in national socialism, another in Soviet socialism. Difference is that in one the enemies are class enemies, in the other race enemies

What is so wrong about talking about crimes of the red army?
The Soviet erected statue of the unknown soldier got to be known as the statue for the unknown rapist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My parents, the Soviet equivalent to baby boomers, were the first generation in Russian history to not experience famine. My grandmother experienced it as did her parents, and she did not know her grandparents, they died young. The average Russians were chronically malnourished. That is why child mortality rates and death rates from measles, typhus, scarlet fever, whooping cough had Russia at first place per 100,000 people.

I don't know what to tell you. My parents were born in the 1930s and the 1940s so whatever equivalency to the boomers you were using. My father came from a family of railway workers. My mother was a daughter of a well-to-do baker. None knew famine before the war came. My mother and her three siblings were orphaned when their parents perished - father killed at the front and mother of TB. My mother was five at the time. All four kids went to the state orphanage where they were fed and clothed as well as wartime Russia allowed. All were also educated to become self-sufficient upon graduation (from the Leningrad conservatory in my mother's case). None became a street kid, was abused or starved or lost in the great wartime vortex. All siblings went on to marry and have children of their own and maintain close ties.

My generation (born in the 70s) was vaccinated religiously so not sure what you mean about the rates of infectious disease.

Boomers means born after 1945.

This was my family experience. Some of my friends’ grandparents starved and others did not. Access to food and famine before WWII was a huge issue in Russian history. It touched significant populations. My mother never starved, but she had spiradic access to food when she visited her grandparents in a Russian village and when she went away to college in the 70s. The reason why so many Russians left their country or want to leave speaks volumes in and of itself. It is not Americans who wish to move to Russia. Russia may be nice to visit, but it is not a nice place to live. Hence you and I are here in the US. Soviet Union was a nanny state, which left many government-dependent people totally helpless and vulnerable after the Soviet Union fell apart. Many people did not know how make independent living, were economically and psychologically illiterate.You should check out an interview on BBC Russia with a widow of Vasily Ignatenko who was featured in Chernobyl on HBO. In 1986-87, she was offered to move to five western countries, including the US, Germany, France and Canada with housing, medical care and a job. The Soviet government told her to refuse a better life because it would have created a negative image of the USSR. HBO Chernobyl series beautifully and respectfully portrays the government’s disregard for human life in the name of the reputation on the world stage.

As a matter of fact, the reason I'm here is not because Russia isn't a nice place to live but let's leave that out for now.

The world is not black and white, and migration flows alone aren't enough to put together a nuanced picture. Very few countries attract migrants; should all others be summarily dismissed? There are good sides and bad sides to all societies. I consider it a sign of weakness to talk crap about your homeland. There's enough disregard for human life among all governments to go around.

Actually Moscow is a perfectly pleasant place to live these days, and extremely child-friendly. We have the BEST time when we visit. There's SO much to do.

I already said that Russia may be nice to visit, especially with US income, and Moscow and St Petersburg have a decent standard of living. Speaking of Russia as a whole and as a place to live, it is not a nice place with ever-decreasing opportunities and ever-increasing corruption and government overreach. I can have love for Russia as a Russian, but I have no love for the totalitarian state and the way people are treated when they come into contact with the government corruption. It is easy to think well of Russia when none of the horrors affect you (e.g dark realtors, burial mafia, lack of cancer treatment access, no money for medicine, all good jobs taken up by the clannish connections, gay beatings, rural nurses making 165 dollars a month, regional hospitals and schools closing in the name of efficiency). And we are not comparing Russia and the world (all governments to go around). We are discussing Russia as a lesser, more backwards European country. Russia is European and needs to be compared only to Europe. It pales in comparison even to Poland, the former Soviet bloc country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, conguerers are in control
Not conguered people, bad things happened for sure, but that doesn't leave the conguerers off the hook. Soviets did collaborate with the Germans. One believed in national socialism, another in Soviet socialism. Difference is that in one the enemies are class enemies, in the other race enemies

What is so wrong about talking about crimes of the red army?
The Soviet erected statue of the unknown soldier got to be known as the statue for the unknown rapist

You aren't making any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the book on red terror
They were as bad if not worse than the Nazis
Read on what they did to the Baltic republic's. The president of Estonia was arrested with his family. His young son starved to death in a Russian orphanage
Many have called for a Nuremberg type trial for red crimes, it just has not happened

The Baltics? That's so awesome, coming from them. Seeing as most Jews in the Baltics were rounded up not by the Nazis but by their erstwhile local talent. So I guess the Jews of Latvia, say, never found out if Russians would be worse than the Nazis but they definitely did found out that the Latvians were as good as.

Molotov Rippentrop
Estonia and Latvia were occupied by Soviets before Germany attacked Russia
Lots of civilians were put on train and deported to the Soviet Union, some were Jewish
The gulag in the archangel region had a lot of Latvian Jews
When Russians had to retreat the gave Germans the complete list of the regions Jews, as they had already compiled the list

Some were put on trains because their home looked classier than the neighbors, others needed to go because the city was to the east of the country and had to become Russian, others were hounded because they had joined organizations, like ladies embroidery, which was then declared counter revolutionary, others became enemies of the people because they were not in professions like: peasant

Why don't you tell us about the warm welcome the Baltics threw to the advancing Nazis? And the rich and varied history of their collaborators?

Sorry, conguerers are in control
Not conguered people, bad things happened for sure, but that doesn't leave the conguerers off the hook. Soviets did collaborate with the Germans. One believed in national socialism, another in Soviet socialism. Difference is that in one the enemies are class enemies, in the other race enemies

What is so wrong about talking about crimes of the red army?
The Soviet erected statue of the unknown soldier got to be known as the statue for the unknown rapist

As a person born in the USSR, I agree. Oppression and tyranny are never ok. Some people still can’t understand the basic premise of human rights. In the SovietvUnion people were doing what the state told them to do, they were like domesticated animals. If they strayed and did not work, for instance, they were immediately jailed for 15 days. Even being late for work had serious consequences. I remember stories about women who slept in and ran out the door in nothing but a coat to avoid tardiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I already said that Russia may be nice to visit, especially with US income, and Moscow and St Petersburg have a decent standard of living. Speaking of Russia as a whole and as a place to live, it is not a nice place with ever-decreasing opportunities and ever-increasing corruption and government overreach. I can have love for Russia as a Russian, but I have no love for the totalitarian state and the way people are treated when they come into contact with the government corruption. It is easy to think well of Russia when none of the horrors affect you (e.g dark realtors, burial mafia, lack of cancer treatment access, no money for medicine, all good jobs taken up by the clannish connections, gay beatings, rural nurses making 165 dollars a month, regional hospitals and schools closing in the name of efficiency). And we are not comparing Russia and the world (all governments to go around). We are discussing Russia as a lesser, more backwards European country. Russia is European and needs to be compared only to Europe. It pales in comparison even to Poland, the former Soviet bloc country.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. You don't know what horrors have affected me so let's not go there. Certainly enough people are having a tough time in Russia, but enough people are having a tough time everywhere. I choose to see humanity everywhere and so far, I've been able to do that. Perfection is not required for love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As a person born in the USSR, I agree. Oppression and tyranny are never ok. Some people still can’t understand the basic premise of human rights. In the SovietvUnion people were doing what the state told them to do, they were like domesticated animals. If they strayed and did not work, for instance, they were immediately jailed for 15 days. Even being late for work had serious consequences. I remember stories about women who slept in and ran out the door in nothing but a coat to avoid tardiness.

LOL you say this like there were no housewives in the USSR. Enough women did not work you know.