Books on Russians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why this thread went so off the rails so quickly. Russia/USSR/former USSR is huge geographically, ethnically diverse, east-orientalist/western divides, and yes serfdom is akin to slavery.

Slavery existed in what is now the continental us as serfdom—equal opportunity oppression; later morphing into racial division of slavery. So when you hear serf in relation to Russia, apartheid in South Africa or Palestine, or indentured servitude for Australia or New Zealand, yes it is akin to slavery.

Agreed. In some way, serfdom is worse than slavery because slaves were fed and serfs were not, yet they could not leave the land they were attached to.

Recently a book about the war of 1812 came out. The author Evgeniy Ponasenkov did extensive research on Russian history and society structure, which he describes in painstaking detail. He has over 1400 references after working in provincial Russian and European archives. The book came out in 2018 and I’m hoping it will be translated into English. It’s a real gem, and the author shows no pro-Russian bias and tells it like it is drawing conclusions from the facts and evidence. This book would be a phenomenal primer on Russian history.

More about Ponasenkov’s book
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/panasenkov-first-scientific-history-1926471617

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should start with the classics. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc. I don't understand does what stem from Peter the Great? What do you mean why do they think they way they do? How do you think Russians think? From serfdom to 1812? Russians were still serfs in 1812. Serfdom was abolished in 1861. Are you suggesting that a. Russians all think alike, and b. that some U.S. author book can shed the light on these exactly same thinking millions of people? You should really ask Jeff to delete your insulting and thoughtless post.

You may think like a faux intellectual, but the Russian mindset is very much tied to totalitarianism. The czars of old and the despots from post revolution onward including the present day.

Pushkin, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky born generations apart were all part of the nobility at a time when the vast majority of Russians were illiterate and starving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why this thread went so off the rails so quickly. Russia/USSR/former USSR is huge geographically, ethnically diverse, east-orientalist/western divides, and yes serfdom is akin to slavery.

Slavery existed in what is now the continental us as serfdom—equal opportunity oppression; later morphing into racial division of slavery. So when you hear serf in relation to Russia, apartheid in South Africa or Palestine, or indentured servitude for Australia or New Zealand, yes it is akin to slavery.

Agreed. In some way, serfdom is worse than slavery because slaves were fed and serfs were not, yet they could not leave the land they were attached to.

Recently a book about the war of 1812 came out. The author Evgeniy Ponasenkov did extensive research on Russian history and society structure, which he describes in painstaking detail. He has over 1400 references after working in provincial Russian and European archives. The book came out in 2018 and I’m hoping it will be translated into English. It’s a real gem, and the author shows no pro-Russian bias and tells it like it is drawing conclusions from the facts and evidence. This book would be a phenomenal primer on Russian history.

More about Ponasenkov’s book
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/panasenkov-first-scientific-history-1926471617

I saw Ponasenkov on CNN a few weeks ago. He commented on the early November murder committed by Oleg Sokolov, his rival historian. Sokolov liked to dress in French army clothing as a reconstructionist and was caught with severed hands of his 24 year old girlfriend that he killed and butchered in Moika river.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the book on red terror
They were as bad if not worse than the Nazis
Read on what they did to the Baltic republic's. The president of Estonia was arrested with his family. His young son starved to death in a Russian orphanage
Many have called for a Nuremberg type trial for red crimes, it just has not happened

The Baltics? That's so awesome, coming from them. Seeing as most Jews in the Baltics were rounded up not by the Nazis but by their erstwhile local talent. So I guess the Jews of Latvia, say, never found out if Russians would be worse than the Nazis but they definitely did found out that the Latvians were as good as.

Molotov Rippentrop
Estonia and Latvia were occupied by Soviets before Germany attacked Russia
Lots of civilians were put on train and deported to the Soviet Union, some were Jewish
The gulag in the archangel region had a lot of Latvian Jews
When Russians had to retreat the gave Germans the complete list of the regions Jews, as they had already compiled the list

Some were put on trains because their home looked classier than the neighbors, others needed to go because the city was to the east of the country and had to become Russian, others were hounded because they had joined organizations, like ladies embroidery, which was then declared counter revolutionary, others became enemies of the people because they were not in professions like: peasant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why this thread went so off the rails so quickly. Russia/USSR/former USSR is huge geographically, ethnically diverse, east-orientalist/western divides, and yes serfdom is akin to slavery.

Slavery existed in what is now the continental us as serfdom—equal opportunity oppression; later morphing into racial division of slavery. So when you hear serf in relation to Russia, apartheid in South Africa or Palestine, or indentured servitude for Australia or New Zealand, yes it is akin to slavery.

Agreed. In some way, serfdom is worse than slavery because slaves were fed and serfs were not, yet they could not leave the land they were attached to.

Recently a book about the war of 1812 came out. The author Evgeniy Ponasenkov did extensive research on Russian history and society structure, which he describes in painstaking detail. He has over 1400 references after working in provincial Russian and European archives. The book came out in 2018 and I’m hoping it will be translated into English. It’s a real gem, and the author shows no pro-Russian bias and tells it like it is drawing conclusions from the facts and evidence. This book would be a phenomenal primer on Russian history.

More about Ponasenkov’s book
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/panasenkov-first-scientific-history-1926471617

I saw Ponasenkov on CNN a few weeks ago. He commented on the early November murder committed by Oleg Sokolov, his rival historian. Sokolov liked to dress in French army clothing as a reconstructionist and was caught with severed hands of his 24 year old girlfriend that he killed and butchered in Moika river.

That murder was a Dostoyevsky style tragedy.CNN link
https://youtu.be/WeRLisJ2MPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the book on red terror
They were as bad if not worse than the Nazis
Read on what they did to the Baltic republic's. The president of Estonia was arrested with his family. His young son starved to death in a Russian orphanage
Many have called for a Nuremberg type trial for red crimes, it just has not happened

The Baltics? That's so awesome, coming from them. Seeing as most Jews in the Baltics were rounded up not by the Nazis but by their erstwhile local talent. So I guess the Jews of Latvia, say, never found out if Russians would be worse than the Nazis but they definitely did found out that the Latvians were as good as.

Molotov Rippentrop
Estonia and Latvia were occupied by Soviets before Germany attacked Russia
Lots of civilians were put on train and deported to the Soviet Union, some were Jewish
The gulag in the archangel region had a lot of Latvian Jews
When Russians had to retreat the gave Germans the complete list of the regions Jews, as they had already compiled the list

Some were put on trains because their home looked classier than the neighbors, others needed to go because the city was to the east of the country and had to become Russian, others were hounded because they had joined organizations, like ladies embroidery, which was then declared counter revolutionary, others became enemies of the people because they were not in professions like: peasant

Why don't you tell us about the warm welcome the Baltics threw to the advancing Nazis? And the rich and varied history of their collaborators?

[Anonymous]

USSR did compile a book of ethbicities, however it was intended to allow each minority school instructions in their language. At first, that is. Nazis found these and used them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should start with the classics. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc. I don't understand does what stem from Peter the Great? What do you mean why do they think they way they do? How do you think Russians think? From serfdom to 1812? Russians were still serfs in 1812. Serfdom was abolished in 1861. Are you suggesting that a. Russians all think alike, and b. that some U.S. author book can shed the light on these exactly same thinking millions of people? You should really ask Jeff to delete your insulting and thoughtless post.

You may think like a faux intellectual, but the Russian mindset is very much tied to totalitarianism. The czars of old and the despots from post revolution onward including the present day.

Pushkin, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky born generations apart were all part of the nobility at a time when the vast majority of Russians were illiterate and starving.

Well Gone with the Wind would read very differently if Mamie wrote it - so would you discount it for that reason alone?

You are just loathe to admit that anything good came out of Russia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:USSR did compile a book of ethbicities, however it was intended to allow each minority school instructions in their language. At first, that is. Nazis found these and used them.

Er...each minority school DID have instruction in their language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should start with the classics. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc. I don't understand does what stem from Peter the Great? What do you mean why do they think they way they do? How do you think Russians think? From serfdom to 1812? Russians were still serfs in 1812. Serfdom was abolished in 1861. Are you suggesting that a. Russians all think alike, and b. that some U.S. author book can shed the light on these exactly same thinking millions of people? You should really ask Jeff to delete your insulting and thoughtless post.

You may think like a faux intellectual, but the Russian mindset is very much tied to totalitarianism. The czars of old and the despots from post revolution onward including the present day.

Pushkin, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky born generations apart were all part of the nobility at a time when the vast majority of Russians were illiterate and starving.

Well Gone with the Wind would read very differently if Mamie wrote it - so would you discount it for that reason alone?

You are just loathe to admit that anything good came out of Russia.

I actually have read a few memoirs of former slaves. Most American slaves like most Russian serfs were illiterate and will go unnamed. Mamie was a cultural stereotype written by an untalented author who romanticized the south and slavery. Gone with the wind only became iconic because of the tremendous cinematic skill, a dashing leading man and woman with a supporting cast with great one liners—Frankly my dear, as god as my witness, and I don’t know nothing about birthing no babies. By all means see the film, but understand the context.

The Russian classics are fine but understand the context. They are not the end all be all of Russian culture.

[Anonymous]

Russians are Europeans in many ways, except for its lack of respect for the individual and totalitarian history. The ultimate power is the power of the state and a dictator, which is true today. Just like in Europe, there no 1st or 2nd amendment and a lot of corruption. Many elderly people dumpster dive to get by because the government pension is tiny. Only in Moscow and St Petersburg people have a decent standard of living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Russians are Europeans in many ways, except for its lack of respect for the individual and totalitarian history. The ultimate power is the power of the state and a dictator, which is true today. Just like in Europe, there no 1st or 2nd amendment and a lot of corruption. Many elderly people dumpster dive to get by because the government pension is tiny. Only in Moscow and St Petersburg people have a decent standard of living.

Respect for the individual vs. the state is a continuum. Your preferred point on the continuum will depend on so many factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should start with the classics. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, etc. I don't understand does what stem from Peter the Great? What do you mean why do they think they way they do? How do you think Russians think? From serfdom to 1812? Russians were still serfs in 1812. Serfdom was abolished in 1861. Are you suggesting that a. Russians all think alike, and b. that some U.S. author book can shed the light on these exactly same thinking millions of people? You should really ask Jeff to delete your insulting and thoughtless post.

You may think like a faux intellectual, but the Russian mindset is very much tied to totalitarianism. The czars of old and the despots from post revolution onward including the present day.

Pushkin, Tolstoy and Dostoevsky born generations apart were all part of the nobility at a time when the vast majority of Russians were illiterate and starving.

Well Gone with the Wind would read very differently if Mamie wrote it - so would you discount it for that reason alone?

You are just loathe to admit that anything good came out of Russia.

My parents, the Soviet equivalent to baby boomers, were the first generation in Russian history to not experience famine. My grandmother experienced it as did her parents, and she did not know her grandparents, they died young. The average Russians were chronically malnourished. That is why child mortality rates and death rates from measles, typhus, scarlet fever, whooping cough had Russia at first place per 100,000 people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russians are Europeans in many ways, except for its lack of respect for the individual and totalitarian history. The ultimate power is the power of the state and a dictator, which is true today. Just like in Europe, there no 1st or 2nd amendment and a lot of corruption. Many elderly people dumpster dive to get by because the government pension is tiny. Only in Moscow and St Petersburg people have a decent standard of living.

Respect for the individual vs. the state is a continuum. Your preferred point on the continuum will depend on so many factors.

Tell that to people who were jailed for seven years because they reposted the criticism of the government online.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/dozens-in-russia-imprisoned-for-social-media-likes-reposts/

[Anonymous]

Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman (a novel)