Experience with CPS? Anyone know first-hand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m also a migraine sufferer. There are Rx meds today that didn’t exist six years ago.

I am one too and very severe. The majority of the medications are the same except the new CPRG shots. Triptans and the "preventatives" were around then and I've been offered many pain killers but never those. No decent neurologist would give those out if they knew someone was pregnant. I used to get asked at every appointment for years and had to take a pregnancy test for a few years at each appointment.

Sumatriptan is Category C and can be used in pregnancy in cases where benefits are judged to outweigh risks -- it is considered to be less counter-indicated in pregnancy than opiods/narcotics. Botox shots are a newer therapy and are also Category C. Beta-blockers and amitriptyline are older meds but also often used for migraine prophylaxis in pregnancy.

Botox is not newer. Its been used off label for many years. I got it long before it was FDA approved. Its only newer in the fact that the FDA approved it specifically for migraines so now its being pushed. The only new medications are the CPRG shots. There are also other medications used as preventatives, not just the ones you described. There is a slew of preventatives. There is more than just imitrex as a triptan too.

Yes, but sumatriptan is the triptan recommended for use in pregnancy.

Botox is "newer," not new, certainly with regards to FDA approval.

There are other preventatives, but they are riskier in pregnancy and mostly considered to be counterindicated.

Are we not reading the same thread? The conversation is about migraine treatment in pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when small-minded, rigid people are given a tiny bit of power to abuse. Unfortunately, you ran into two of them at the same time. By definition, it cannot be child abuse to take prescribed medication as prescribed because the patient is relying on a learned intermediary to treat symptoms that indicate the medication. The nurse did not report facts, she reported her own conclusory, and ignorant, speculation. The "investigator" was incompetent and entirely unsuited to the job. This is all too common.

Cases like this cry out for corrective systemic litigation.

It sounds like abuse. OP isn't identifying she failed using the majority of preventatives, cannot take a triptan or other remedies. She's only seeking this particular drug. It sounds like a very appropriate report.

Where are you getting this? She says that her neurologist and OB consulted ten times, which—if anything—suggests that quite a few other things were tried. How are you reaching the conclusion that she was “seeking this particular drug’?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when small-minded, rigid people are given a tiny bit of power to abuse. Unfortunately, you ran into two of them at the same time. By definition, it cannot be child abuse to take prescribed medication as prescribed because the patient is relying on a learned intermediary to treat symptoms that indicate the medication. The nurse did not report facts, she reported her own conclusory, and ignorant, speculation. The "investigator" was incompetent and entirely unsuited to the job. This is all too common.

Cases like this cry out for corrective systemic litigation.

It sounds like abuse. OP isn't identifying she failed using the majority of preventatives, cannot take a triptan or other remedies. She's only seeking this particular drug. It sounds like a very appropriate report.

Where are you getting this? She says that her neurologist and OB consulted ten times, which—if anything—suggests that quite a few other things were tried. How are you reaching the conclusion that she was “seeking this particular drug’?

OP here. I tried SO many other things. I did NOT want to take the opiod. But that was their last resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when small-minded, rigid people are given a tiny bit of power to abuse. Unfortunately, you ran into two of them at the same time. By definition, it cannot be child abuse to take prescribed medication as prescribed because the patient is relying on a learned intermediary to treat symptoms that indicate the medication. The nurse did not report facts, she reported her own conclusory, and ignorant, speculation. The "investigator" was incompetent and entirely unsuited to the job. This is all too common.

Cases like this cry out for corrective systemic litigation.

It sounds like abuse. OP isn't identifying she failed using the majority of preventatives, cannot take a triptan or other remedies. She's only seeking this particular drug. It sounds like a very appropriate report.

Where are you getting this? She says that her neurologist and OB consulted ten times, which—if anything—suggests that quite a few other things were tried. How are you reaching the conclusion that she was “seeking this particular drug’?

Moving forward, you have some new options to explore. No need to jump to moving to another state to give birth.
OP here. I tried SO many other things. I did NOT want to take the opiod. But that was their last resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the part where the MFM showed up AFTER the nurse had already called CPS? The order of events according to OP: showed up with opioids in urine, hospital notes it’s her prescription, baby has at least one sign of NAS (early birth). Do you know most RX abusers have prescriptions? Obviously OP is not a drug abuser, but it absolutely makes sense for an a mandatory reporter to call with these criteria.

Actually it sounds like she is. I have horrific migraines. For pregnancy there is no way I'd risk these medications. No neurologist who is good will prescribe them during pregnancy. I had to do pregnancy tests for years to show I wasn't pregnant to be on some of the medications I was on. If I was pregnant or planned to be pregnant I'd would be immediately pulled off.

Naturally, you are better suited to decide what is the best medicine than some namby-pamby neurologist and MFM who went through how many years of school and training? I mean, OP should have just consulted you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are smart to think ahead. CPS stops at nothing and having this issue pop up again is the last thing you want.

Great suggestions on here. Thinking totally outside the box, what if you gave birth at a birthing center where there might be more privacy? And talk to the people you plan to deliver with ahead of time? And get your doctor and lawyer on board with prewritten letters that the medication is approved for pregnancy, or that you had this issue before and that you will test negative next time if you decide not to take the medication again, etc.?

Find out from an attorney if they will call CPS regardless if you test positive next time or not. Have your prewritten attorney and medical letters ready to roll about possible implications to the hospital if they report you again regardless of test results. I would SUE if they report you again. Stop at nothing and don't take this $hit. You have rights!!!

We had CPS on us for a different issue (due to a nanny situation), and I am still traumatized by it 5 years later. I have found that most CPS workers are rabid and ruthless, and stop at nothing (as you have seen from experience). Find out your full legal rights, get your doctor and attorney on board with written documentation ahead of time, and get all your ducks in a row in case you need to be on the defensive immediately.

Seems like they only “stop at nothing” when they have decent people and families involved. Wouldn’t it be great if CPS put some effort into saving the kids that actually need their help?

I second the PP- have a lawyer ready and on retainer in case they try to come after you again.

This x1000. As a former therapist I can’t tell you how many times CPS dropped the ball or was dismissive of situations in which it would have been 100% obvious to anyone that a child was being abused. One case in particular still haunts me to this day and I’ve never looked at the agency the same. It’s interesting how they seem to go hard on families like the OP’s, where it should be an open and shit case absolving OP of any wrongdoing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are smart to think ahead. CPS stops at nothing and having this issue pop up again is the last thing you want.

Great suggestions on here. Thinking totally outside the box, what if you gave birth at a birthing center where there might be more privacy? And talk to the people you plan to deliver with ahead of time? And get your doctor and lawyer on board with prewritten letters that the medication is approved for pregnancy, or that you had this issue before and that you will test negative next time if you decide not to take the medication again, etc.?

Find out from an attorney if they will call CPS regardless if you test positive next time or not. Have your prewritten attorney and medical letters ready to roll about possible implications to the hospital if they report you again regardless of test results. I would SUE if they report you again. Stop at nothing and don't take this $hit. You have rights!!!

We had CPS on us for a different issue (due to a nanny situation), and I am still traumatized by it 5 years later. I have found that most CPS workers are rabid and ruthless, and stop at nothing (as you have seen from experience). Find out your full legal rights, get your doctor and attorney on board with written documentation ahead of time, and get all your ducks in a row in case you need to be on the defensive immediately.

Seems like they only “stop at nothing” when they have decent people and families involved. Wouldn’t it be great if CPS put some effort into saving the kids that actually need their help?

I second the PP- have a lawyer ready and on retainer in case they try to come after you again.

This x1000. As a former therapist I can’t tell you how many times CPS dropped the ball or was dismissive of situations in which it would have been 100% obvious to anyone that a child was being abused. One case in particular still haunts me to this day and I’ve never looked at the agency the same. It’s interesting how they seem to go hard on families like the OP’s, where it should be an open and shit case absolving OP of any wrongdoing.

Shut!!?????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the part where the MFM showed up AFTER the nurse had already called CPS? The order of events according to OP: showed up with opioids in urine, hospital notes it’s her prescription, baby has at least one sign of NAS (early birth). Do you know most RX abusers have prescriptions? Obviously OP is not a drug abuser, but it absolutely makes sense for an a mandatory reporter to call with these criteria.

Absolutely not. The RN should have consulted with the MFM who prescribed the medication before doing that. This kind of per-se, discretionless reporting to CPS causes a LOT of harm. There's no requirement that mandated reporters report immediately and not wait to consult people with actual knowledge of the family/parents. I understand why OP did not sue, but I would have pursued a lawsuit against the RN and hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mandated reporters are mandated by law to report any level of suspicion, not to use their discretion to decide whether it is likely a real problem.

For those that are licensed, they can lose that license if they approach it as you recommend. Honestly, I don't blame them for not holding your advice above the law, especially with a license at risk.

Totally untrue. Suppose the child has osteogenesis imperfecta in their medical records, and shows up with a fracture. Should the RN then report to CPS because that's "any level of suspicion"? Or should she use her discretion and realize "hmm, there's a medical condition in the records that causes fractures. Let's wait to consult with the doctor to verify that this fracture is consistent with the disease." You're being absurd, and until health care professionals actually start getting sue and losing their licenses for this behavior, it won't change. The fact is, it's more comfortable **for the reporter** to have a hair-trigger response and disclaim all responsibility of actually assessing the facts. This is how innocent people end up with their children taken away from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Great suggestions on here. Thinking totally outside the box, what if you gave birth at a birthing center where there might be more privacy? And talk to the people you plan to deliver with ahead of time? And get your doctor and lawyer on board with prewritten letters that the medication is approved for pregnancy, or that you had this issue before and that you will test negative next time if you decide not to take the medication again, etc.?

NP. I would not take the suggestion of giving birth at a birthing center without a lot of due diligence first. If there is a midwife-run birthing center at the hospital where your MFM/OB has privileges, that's one thing, but certified nurse midwives are also mandatory reporters, and if it were me I'd want to make sure my MFM/OB were on the spot in case any issues of negligence came up again (which they should not, but you've unfortunately been through a terrible and traumatizing experience that, unjustly, will still likely be in CPS' records). Although it is an antiquated belief, many people are not up on the evidence-based medicine about a midwife-centered practice, and mothers who have given birth at birthing centers and have had things go wrong have also been targeted by CPS for negligence in not giving birth in a hospital.

I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP, as well as PP who have been through similar traumatizing experiences. I may not have noticed this in your posts, but I hope you are in therapy or can find a skilled therapist who can help you because what you've been through sounds like it would trigger PTSD in just about anybody.

True, although I feel like part of the story here is about hospital policies, and lack of coordination between the RN and the doctors. It seems like a birth center would have a smaller number of personnel and be better able to keep everyone informed. (and I say this as someone who would never opt to deliver in a birth center otherwise.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when small-minded, rigid people are given a tiny bit of power to abuse. Unfortunately, you ran into two of them at the same time. By definition, it cannot be child abuse to take prescribed medication as prescribed because the patient is relying on a learned intermediary to treat symptoms that indicate the medication. The nurse did not report facts, she reported her own conclusory, and ignorant, speculation. The "investigator" was incompetent and entirely unsuited to the job. This is all too common.

Cases like this cry out for corrective systemic litigation.

It sounds like abuse. OP isn't identifying she failed using the majority of preventatives, cannot take a triptan or other remedies. She's only seeking this particular drug. It sounds like a very appropriate report.

and folks, this kind of second-guessing is exactly how innocent people lose their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m also a migraine sufferer. There are Rx meds today that didn’t exist six years ago.

I am one too and very severe. The majority of the medications are the same except the new CPRG shots. Triptans and the "preventatives" were around then and I've been offered many pain killers but never those. No decent neurologist would give those out if they knew someone was pregnant. I used to get asked at every appointment for years and had to take a pregnancy test for a few years at each appointment.

Sumatriptan is Category C and can be used in pregnancy in cases where benefits are judged to outweigh risks -- it is considered to be less counter-indicated in pregnancy than opiods/narcotics. Botox shots are a newer therapy and are also Category C. Beta-blockers and amitriptyline are older meds but also often used for migraine prophylaxis in pregnancy.

Botox is not newer. Its been used off label for many years. I got it long before it was FDA approved. Its only newer in the fact that the FDA approved it specifically for migraines so now its being pushed. The only new medications are the CPRG shots. There are also other medications used as preventatives, not just the ones you described. There is a slew of preventatives. There is more than just imitrex as a triptan too.

Yes, but sumatriptan is the triptan recommended for use in pregnancy.

Botox is "newer," not new, certainly with regards to FDA approval.

There are other preventatives, but they are riskier in pregnancy and mostly considered to be counterindicated.

Are we not reading the same thread? The conversation is about migraine treatment in pregnancy.

actually, sumatriptan may be associated with some serious pregnancy complications, including pre-eclampsia. https://mothertobaby.org/fact-sheets/sumatriptan-pregnancy/

the fact is, we don't know why OP's doctors OK'd the opioids, but I'm not about to second-guess the decision. maybe she had high blood pressure or a previous delivery with pre-eclampsia. it may have been a perfectly reasonable balance of costs and benefits (albeit not anticipating the huge cost of involvement with the legal system).