Bates or Colgate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?


+1. No reasonably well informed person would be considering both.

This is obnoxious nonsense. Colgate and Bates are each highly regarded SLACs. In the Northeast. While DCUM commenters might think their half-baked "impressions" of the two colleges are that they are two mutually exclusive sets, in real life those gaps are a lot less rigid and unbridgeable than DCUM rhetoric assumes (it's not like comparing West Point and Oberlin). They have the same majors, the same clubs and activities, have students of essentially similar qualifications. It's possible that the applicant may see specific things they like in each college (apparently not having received your memo that "no reasonably well informed person would be considering both"). Or maybe has friends who went to each and had a great experience. Or maybe, as a 17 year old, the applicant isn't as set in their ways as the opinionated commenters on DCUM and thinks "hmmm, there's a part of me that could be a Bates person, but there's also a part of me that could be Colgate person." This website is to share helpful information - not to deride people's interests or discourage them from pursuing options that might legitimately appeal to them (notwithstanding your disapproval). Don't make the mistake of thinking or saying you know better -- you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?


+1. No reasonably well informed person would be considering both.

This is obnoxious nonsense. Colgate and Bates are each highly regarded SLACs. In the Northeast. While DCUM commenters might think their half-baked "impressions" of the two colleges are that they are two mutually exclusive sets, in real life those gaps are a lot less rigid and unbridgeable than DCUM rhetoric assumes (it's not like comparing West Point and Oberlin). They have the same majors, the same clubs and activities, have students of essentially similar qualifications. It's possible that the applicant may see specific things they like in each college (apparently not having received your memo that "no reasonably well informed person would be considering both"). Or maybe has friends who went to each and had a great experience. Or maybe, as a 17 year old, the applicant isn't as set in their ways as the opinionated commenters on DCUM and thinks "hmmm, there's a part of me that could be a Bates person, but there's also a part of me that could be Colgate person." This website is to share helpful information - not to deride people's interests or discourage them from pursuing options that might legitimately appeal to them (notwithstanding your disapproval). Don't make the mistake of thinking or saying you know better -- you don't.

I am not the poster you quoted, but you are incorrect. These schools have very different campus cultures even though students who apply to one of these schools also apply to several schools in common. A very important difference is the presence or absence of Greek life. Greek life dominates the social scene at Colgate, but does not exist at Bates. Colgate has about 3,000 students, Bates has fewer than 1,800 students. Colgate has a strong jock culture and lots are aiming for careers in finance. Bates is more "egalitarian and community minded".

Not trying to argue, but a visit to both school while in session should show that these are two very different schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?


+1. No reasonably well informed person would be considering both.

This is obnoxious nonsense. Colgate and Bates are each highly regarded SLACs. In the Northeast. While DCUM commenters might think their half-baked "impressions" of the two colleges are that they are two mutually exclusive sets, in real life those gaps are a lot less rigid and unbridgeable than DCUM rhetoric assumes (it's not like comparing West Point and Oberlin). They have the same majors, the same clubs and activities, have students of essentially similar qualifications. It's possible that the applicant may see specific things they like in each college (apparently not having received your memo that "no reasonably well informed person would be considering both"). Or maybe has friends who went to each and had a great experience. Or maybe, as a 17 year old, the applicant isn't as set in their ways as the opinionated commenters on DCUM and thinks "hmmm, there's a part of me that could be a Bates person, but there's also a part of me that could be Colgate person." This website is to share helpful information - not to deride people's interests or discourage them from pursuing options that might legitimately appeal to them (notwithstanding your disapproval). Don't make the mistake of thinking or saying you know better -- you don't.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Colgate is a D1, Greek dominated, hard partying, private school dominated, pre-professional school in the middle of nowhere. Bates is a genuine LAC with a serious core curriculum and a long history of socially progressive policies. Nate’s is outdoorsy and diverse. One would have to be an imbecile to equate the two. You are most likely an imbecile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They’re so different. Have you done no research at all?


+1. No reasonably well informed person would be considering both.

This is obnoxious nonsense. Colgate and Bates are each highly regarded SLACs. In the Northeast. While DCUM commenters might think their half-baked "impressions" of the two colleges are that they are two mutually exclusive sets, in real life those gaps are a lot less rigid and unbridgeable than DCUM rhetoric assumes (it's not like comparing West Point and Oberlin). They have the same majors, the same clubs and activities, have students of essentially similar qualifications. It's possible that the applicant may see specific things they like in each college (apparently not having received your memo that "no reasonably well informed person would be considering both"). Or maybe has friends who went to each and had a great experience. Or maybe, as a 17 year old, the applicant isn't as set in their ways as the opinionated commenters on DCUM and thinks "hmmm, there's a part of me that could be a Bates person, but there's also a part of me that could be Colgate person." This website is to share helpful information - not to deride people's interests or discourage them from pursuing options that might legitimately appeal to them (notwithstanding your disapproval). Don't make the mistake of thinking or saying you know better -- you don't.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Colgate is a D1, Greek dominated, hard partying, private school dominated, pre-professional school in the middle of nowhere. Bates is a genuine LAC with a serious core curriculum and a long history of socially progressive policies. Nate’s is outdoorsy and diverse. One would have to be an imbecile to equate the two. You are most likely an imbecile.

Colgate is also outdoorsy, also has a core curriculum, is absolutely a “genuine LAC,” and is not pre-professional in the least.

[Anonymous]

you are incorrect.... a visit to both school while in session should show that these are two very different schools.

No, you're incorrect because you misunderstood my point. No one is contesting that the two schools have some significant differences -- indeed, the data you cite was in an earlier posting of mine. What is ridiculous and offensive is to tell the OP that there's something defective or ill-researched in a student (or their parents) considering or even applying to both. A student doesn't have to decide until accepted and sending in a deposit whether they would prefer a school with Greek life or not, or an urban or rural setting, or a large or small school. It's even possible that all of these would be secondary or even irrelevant considerations for the student. Students aren't locked into the same binary divisions of the world as DCUM commenters.

And btw, if youre going to deal with with stereotypes about two schools, maybe a fairer way to do it is to not draw from unsubstantiated quasi-pejoratives about one school and press releases from another. On Unigo a Bates student describes their image as "hippies with trust funds. All white student body. Everyone smokes pot" -- is that what you meant by "egalitarian and community minded"?

This DCUM myth that "Colgate is mostly for finance wannabes" is a silly and misleading untruth that has taken on a life of its own through endless repetition here. Colgate doesn't have a finance or business major. It does have an Economics major, that draws about 12 percent of graduating seniors. Which is about the same percentage as major in Political Science. And is a little less than major in the other Social Sciences (education, sociology, geography, history -- typical breeding grounds for finance bros, right?). Only about half as many as major in the Natural Sciences, and only about half as many as major in the Arts and Humanities (such as English, Philosophy and Religion, foreign languages and art history). And about the same percentage as those who major in Colgate's "University Studies" programs (environmental, regional and gender studies - the direct pathway to Goldman Sachs...). Colgate students may marginally skew more toward finance sector jobs (or toward employment generally) than students at some other SLACs, but certainly not to the exclusion of all else, as a quick survey of recent graduates' employers and graduate schools proves.

I actually have no person connection to Colgate, except for having visited repeatedly and knowing a number of (non-finance!) alums who went there and really valued the experience. But it bugs me to see inquiring posters directed away from an excellent institution of higher education because of a weird DCUM cyber-bullying echo chamber about Colgate.

[Anonymous]

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Colgate is a D1, Greek dominated, hard partying, private school dominated, pre-professional school in the middle of nowhere. Bates is a genuine LAC with a serious core curriculum and a long history of socially progressive policies. Nate’s is outdoorsy and diverse. One would have to be an imbecile to equate the two. You are most likely an imbecile.

Be as rude as you want, but you shouldn't lie. 41% of Colgate's student body comes from private schools; 53% of Bates' student body comes from private schools.

[Anonymous]

Colgate alum here. Great education.

Tough social scene, and not exactly the place to learn respect for women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colgate alum here. Great education.

Tough social scene, and not exactly the place to learn respect for women.

Are you willing to elaborate on your statement: "tough social scene"

Did you see a lot of grads taking positions in financial services firms & investment banks ?

Thank you in advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

you are incorrect.... a visit to both school while in session should show that these are two very different schools.

No, you're incorrect because you misunderstood my point. No one is contesting that the two schools have some significant differences -- indeed, the data you cite was in an earlier posting of mine. What is ridiculous and offensive is to tell the OP that there's something defective or ill-researched in a student (or their parents) considering or even applying to both. A student doesn't have to decide until accepted and sending in a deposit whether they would prefer a school with Greek life or not, or an urban or rural setting, or a large or small school. It's even possible that all of these would be secondary or even irrelevant considerations for the student. Students aren't locked into the same binary divisions of the world as DCUM commenters.

And btw, if youre going to deal with with stereotypes about two schools, maybe a fairer way to do it is to not draw from unsubstantiated quasi-pejoratives about one school and press releases from another. On Unigo a Bates student describes their image as "hippies with trust funds. All white student body. Everyone smokes pot" -- is that what you meant by "egalitarian and community minded"?

This DCUM myth that "Colgate is mostly for finance wannabes" is a silly and misleading untruth that has taken on a life of its own through endless repetition here. Colgate doesn't have a finance or business major. It does have an Economics major, that draws about 12 percent of graduating seniors. Which is about the same percentage as major in Political Science. And is a little less than major in the other Social Sciences (education, sociology, geography, history -- typical breeding grounds for finance bros, right?). Only about half as many as major in the Natural Sciences, and only about half as many as major in the Arts and Humanities (such as English, Philosophy and Religion, foreign languages and art history). And about the same percentage as those who major in Colgate's "University Studies" programs (environmental, regional and gender studies - the direct pathway to Goldman Sachs...). Colgate students may marginally skew more toward finance sector jobs (or toward employment generally) than students at some other SLACs, but certainly not to the exclusion of all else, as a quick survey of recent graduates' employers and graduate schools proves.

I actually have no person connection to Colgate, except for having visited repeatedly and knowing a number of (non-finance!) alums who went there and really valued the experience. But it bugs me to see inquiring posters directed away from an excellent institution of higher education because of a weird DCUM cyber-bullying echo chamber about Colgate.

Financial services industry and investment banks recruit and hire many non-finance majors and non-business majors. They tend to look for hard-working intelligent college graduates. Certainly economics majors, math majors, CS, majors and liberal arts majors are hired into these sectors.

Feel free to peruse Colgates website for employment outcomes first job destinations.

Obviously, we disagree about whether or not Colgate and Bates have very different campus cultures. On this point, I think it best that we agree to disagree as the purpose of this thread is to help the OP--not to argue.

I appreciate & respect your input, but we differ on some points.

[Anonymous]

My kid is going to Bates but he was also looking at Colgate. The frat thing was a big detractor for him personally and I'm confident that Bates is the right fit for him. But we know great kids who are very happy at Colgate and at least one very successful alum. They're both very good SLACs in relatively remote cold areas. You don't need to tear one down to praise the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to Bates but he was also looking at Colgate. The frat thing was a big detractor for him personally and I'm confident that Bates is the right fit for him. But we know great kids who are very happy at Colgate and at least one very successful alum. They're both very good SLACs in relatively remote cold areas. You don't need to tear one down to praise the other.

Noting that two SLACs have very different campus cultures is not tearing one down to praise the other.

The point of this thread is to help OP's student choose one of the two schools. One way to help is to note the differences between the schools. And they are quite different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which would you choose? No FA and major undecided. Thank you!

Has OP shared whether OP's student is a male or a female ?

Or any further information beyond OP's original post ?

[Anonymous]

Obviously, we disagree about whether or not Colgate and Bates have very different campus cultures.

No, you're either ignoring or missing the point i've made repeatedly. The campus cultures may well be very different, but it's entirely reasonable for one student to be interested in or apply to both. The previous comment that "no reasonably informed person would be considering both" was unwarranted and incorrect.

Feel free to peruse Colgates website for employment outcomes first job destinations.

Here you go, let's put this to rest. https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/colgate.university.data.analytics.and.decision.support/viz/IndividualEmploymentandContinuingEducationOutcomes/IndividualEmploymentandContinuingEducationOutcomes
Looking at the data for the class of 2019 (last pre-COVID year), you'll see a vast spread of employers from different sectors (as well as grad schools). The only ones taking five or more Colgate grads (from a graduating class of just under 700) are:
EY (24), Colgate (15), Guidepoint (13), NIH (6), Goldman Sachs (6), Memorial Sloan Kettering (5), Brigham and Women's Hospital (5), Wayfair (5). If you look at the other big financial services firms, Citi takes 1, JPM takes 2, BofA Merrill takes four. Not overwhelming out of 700. Compared to say 4 going to Comcast/NBC, 2 going to Google, 1 going to Conde Nast.
Don't respond unless you're prepared to cite some comps for other schools (not just for Bates - the assertion here on DCUM is that the finance contingent at Colgate is "dominant" and exceeds that of other schools). A comment like "6 out of 700 going to Goldman Sachs just feels high to me" would be a kind of pointless retort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

you are incorrect.... a visit to both school while in session should show that these are two very different schools.

No, you're incorrect because you misunderstood my point. No one is contesting that the two schools have some significant differences -- indeed, the data you cite was in an earlier posting of mine. What is ridiculous and offensive is to tell the OP that there's something defective or ill-researched in a student (or their parents) considering or even applying to both. A student doesn't have to decide until accepted and sending in a deposit whether they would prefer a school with Greek life or not, or an urban or rural setting, or a large or small school. It's even possible that all of these would be secondary or even irrelevant considerations for the student. Students aren't locked into the same binary divisions of the world as DCUM commenters.

And btw, if youre going to deal with with stereotypes about two schools, maybe a fairer way to do it is to not draw from unsubstantiated quasi-pejoratives about one school and press releases from another. On Unigo a Bates student describes their image as "hippies with trust funds. All white student body. Everyone smokes pot" -- is that what you meant by "egalitarian and community minded"?

This DCUM myth that "Colgate is mostly for finance wannabes" is a silly and misleading untruth that has taken on a life of its own through endless repetition here. Colgate doesn't have a finance or business major. It does have an Economics major, that draws about 12 percent of graduating seniors. Which is about the same percentage as major in Political Science. And is a little less than major in the other Social Sciences (education, sociology, geography, history -- typical breeding grounds for finance bros, right?). Only about half as many as major in the Natural Sciences, and only about half as many as major in the Arts and Humanities (such as English, Philosophy and Religion, foreign languages and art history). And about the same percentage as those who major in Colgate's "University Studies" programs (environmental, regional and gender studies - the direct pathway to Goldman Sachs...). Colgate students may marginally skew more toward finance sector jobs (or toward employment generally) than students at some other SLACs, but certainly not to the exclusion of all else, as a quick survey of recent graduates' employers and graduate schools proves.

I actually have no person connection to Colgate, except for having visited repeatedly and knowing a number of (non-finance!) alums who went there and really valued the experience. But it bugs me to see inquiring posters directed away from an excellent institution of higher education because of a weird DCUM cyber-bullying echo chamber about Colgate.

This was a really thoughtful post, PP. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recently read two newspaper articles about racism at Bates College. Very disturbing allegations. One involved the dismissal of the longtime head of security at Bates College, while the other shares details of a racial discrimination lawsuit filed by the head football coach at Bates College.

Agree that Bates College and Colgate University offer contrasting environments. I doubt that a student well suited for one would be comfortable at the other as Colgate is quite preppy and fratty with lots of students targeting Wall Street finance type positions, whereas Bates offers a crunchy, granola option for those interested in environmental issues as well as the study of psychology. (And, yes, I am aware that Colgate offers psychology & environmental studies options.)

Interesting and surprising - do you recall where you read these?

New poster:

Football coach: https://www.sunjournal.com/2022/04/09/bates-college-accused-of-racial-discrimination-by-its-former-football-coach/

Security officer: https://www.sunjournal.com/2021/04/28/bates-college-fires-a-top-campus-safety-officer/

Bates has issues as documented above. The location also leaves much to be desired.

As a Colgate grad pointed out above, Colgate has a tough social scene and not the best place to go to learn how to treat women.

Tough to escape these type of issues at a small school.