FCPS vs. MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS' AAP seems less rigorous than similar offerings in MCPS, but the later has more competitive admissions.

+1 MCPS is better if your child is in the top 1% of his/her class. FCPS is better if your child is in the top 20% of their class.

Well with the new region-based cohort, the 1% (it was really always 3%) criterion is only applied to the places where no cohort exists; and if you read the latest discussions, it looks like the center's are taking in students in the 85% percentiles rather than 98%. The FCPS criteria are more explicit and the AAP program has a putative cutoff of 132 IQ or 98% level. Even with appeals and leakage based on holistic criteria, the mean cohort IQ in AAP is still in the 130s. And the curriculum starts in 3rd grade. All in all, the AAP + upper middle class or grad-level parent neighborhoods give a combined effect of allowing a pretty predictable placement and choice. It is just more rational to be able to plan against this in FCPS. MCPS is a real lottery for only a very few under-served fraction compared to the smart kids' population that needs gifted services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS' AAP seems less rigorous than similar offerings in MCPS, but the later has more competitive admissions.

+1 MCPS is better if your child is in the top 1% of his/her class. FCPS is better if your child is in the top 20% of their class.

Well with the new region-based cohort, the 1% (it was really always 3%) criterion is only applied to the places where no cohort exists; and if you read the latest discussions, it looks like the center's are taking in students in the 85% percentiles rather than 98%. The FCPS criteria are more explicit and the AAP program has a putative cutoff of 132 IQ or 98% level. Even with appeals and leakage based on holistic criteria, the mean cohort IQ in AAP is still in the 130s. And the curriculum starts in 3rd grade. All in all, the AAP + upper middle class or grad-level parent neighborhoods give a combined effect of allowing a pretty predictable placement and choice. It is just more rational to be able to plan against this in FCPS. MCPS is a real lottery for only a very few under-served fraction compared to the smart kids' population that needs gifted services.

Just the opposite. The changes to admission criteria made it far more competitive than in the past where only a small percentage of eligible students applied, but now with universal screening they're capturing the many gifted students who often wouldn't even apply in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS' AAP seems less rigorous than similar offerings in MCPS, but the later has more competitive admissions.

+1 MCPS is better if your child is in the top 1% of his/her class. FCPS is better if your child is in the top 20% of their class.

Well with the new region-based cohort, the 1% (it was really always 3%) criterion is only applied to the places where no cohort exists; and if you read the latest discussions, it looks like the center's are taking in students in the 85% percentiles rather than 98%. The FCPS criteria are more explicit and the AAP program has a putative cutoff of 132 IQ or 98% level. Even with appeals and leakage based on holistic criteria, the mean cohort IQ in AAP is still in the 130s. And the curriculum starts in 3rd grade. All in all, the AAP + upper middle class or grad-level parent neighborhoods give a combined effect of allowing a pretty predictable placement and choice. It is just more rational to be able to plan against this in FCPS. MCPS is a real lottery for only a very few under-served fraction compared to the smart kids' population that needs gifted services.

Just the opposite. The changes to admission criteria made it far more competitive than in the past where only a small percentage of eligible students applied, but now with universal screening they're capturing the many gifted students who often wouldn't even apply in the past.

This year even at our local CES which according to DCUM has a low bar waitlists students with 98% CogAT scores. This is still much higher than AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS' AAP seems less rigorous than similar offerings in MCPS, but the later has more competitive admissions.

+1 MCPS is better if your child is in the top 1% of his/her class. FCPS is better if your child is in the top 20% of their class.

Well with the new region-based cohort, the 1% (it was really always 3%) criterion is only applied to the places where no cohort exists; and if you read the latest discussions, it looks like the center's are taking in students in the 85% percentiles rather than 98%. The FCPS criteria are more explicit and the AAP program has a putative cutoff of 132 IQ or 98% level. Even with appeals and leakage based on holistic criteria, the mean cohort IQ in AAP is still in the 130s. And the curriculum starts in 3rd grade. All in all, the AAP + upper middle class or grad-level parent neighborhoods give a combined effect of allowing a pretty predictable placement and choice. It is just more rational to be able to plan against this in FCPS. MCPS is a real lottery for only a very few under-served fraction compared to the smart kids' population that needs gifted services.

Over half of the kids admitted to AAP were referred by parents and didn't have any test scores above 132. Many parents in the AAP forum have reported that their kids have WISC scores in the 115-125 range, and their kids are middle-of-the pack in academic performance in FCPS AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS' AAP seems less rigorous than similar offerings in MCPS, but the later has more competitive admissions.

+1 MCPS is better if your child is in the top 1% of his/her class. FCPS is better if your child is in the top 20% of their class.

Well with the new region-based cohort, the 1% (it was really always 3%) criterion is only applied to the places where no cohort exists; and if you read the latest discussions, it looks like the center's are taking in students in the 85% percentiles rather than 98%. The FCPS criteria are more explicit and the AAP program has a putative cutoff of 132 IQ or 98% level. Even with appeals and leakage based on holistic criteria, the mean cohort IQ in AAP is still in the 130s. And the curriculum starts in 3rd grade. All in all, the AAP + upper middle class or grad-level parent neighborhoods give a combined effect of allowing a pretty predictable placement and choice. It is just more rational to be able to plan against this in FCPS. MCPS is a real lottery for only a very few under-served fraction compared to the smart kids' population that needs gifted services.

Over half of the kids admitted to AAP were referred by parents and didn't have any test scores above 132. Many parents in the AAP forum have reported that their kids have WISC scores in the 115-125 range, and their kids are middle-of-the pack in academic performance in FCPS AAP.

And all of this info is posted by a handful of anonymous people who may misrepresent info and represent a tiny swath of perspectives. The most recent systematic program evaluation study of FCPS AAP put the mean Cogat/WISC score in the mid 130s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The most recent systematic program evaluation study of FCPS AAP put the mean Cogat/WISC score in the mid 130s.

Do you have a link or citation for anything released by FCPS in the last 5 years showing a median CogAT score in the mid 130s? The best I found was data from 2001 showing median scores in the mid 120s. I don’t see how they could have data on average IQ/WISC scores in AAP since such a small number of the kids have ever taken an IQ test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll be transferring a 6th to MCPS and a bit worried because the academic/curriculum aren’t the same. FCPS is better in my opinion compared to MCPS from my personal experience.

Are there any private schools in GAITHERSBURG. The school assigned to the property in GBURG is rated a 4/10, her current school is rated 9/10 a bit more advanced than MCPS. I might need to reconsider this move.

There are private options here. Seneca Academy is great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The most recent systematic program evaluation study of FCPS AAP put the mean Cogat/WISC score in the mid 130s.

Do you have a link or citation for anything released by FCPS in the last 5 years showing a median CogAT score in the mid 130s? The best I found was data from 2001 showing median scores in the mid 120s. I don’t see how they could have data on average IQ/WISC scores in AAP since such a small number of the kids have ever taken an IQ test.

It was a external program evaluation of the AAP program completed in 2015 (I think--around then if not exactly) by GMU researchers as part of a grant. I don't know if it's publicly available. Cogat was used and a smaller sub-set of WISC also if appealed/applied from outside FCPS system. NNat was highly variable and more complicated so they didn't use simple means. I saw it in the context of a training on psychoeducational assessments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It was a external program evaluation of the AAP program completed in 2015 (I think--around then if not exactly) by GMU researchers as part of a grant. I don't know if it's publicly available. Cogat was used and a smaller sub-set of WISC also if appealed/applied from outside FCPS system. NNat was highly variable and more complicated so they didn't use simple means. I saw it in the context of a training on psychoeducational assessments.

You must have misunderstood the data. Slightly less than 10% of FCPS kids are in-pool on CogAT, and not all of those kids are admitted to AAP. About 21% of the FCPS kids are found eligible for AAP Level IV. This means that over half of the kids in AAP had below-pool CogAT scores, and thus the median CogAT composite would have to be below 132.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It was a external program evaluation of the AAP program completed in 2015 (I think--around then if not exactly) by GMU researchers as part of a grant. I don't know if it's publicly available. Cogat was used and a smaller sub-set of WISC also if appealed/applied from outside FCPS system. NNat was highly variable and more complicated so they didn't use simple means. I saw it in the context of a training on psychoeducational assessments.

You must have misunderstood the data. Slightly less than 10% of FCPS kids are in-pool on CogAT, and not all of those kids are admitted to AAP. About 21% of the FCPS kids are found eligible for AAP Level IV. This means that over half of the kids in AAP had below-pool CogAT scores, and thus the median CogAT composite would have to be below 132.

DP. Your numbers are wrong. But that was a masterful takedown of someone who dared to go outside of accepted DCUM wisdom, which is that AAP kids are not gifted. Keep pounding down those voices of dissent, especially if they sound like they might know what they're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It was a external program evaluation of the AAP program completed in 2015 (I think--around then if not exactly) by GMU researchers as part of a grant. I don't know if it's publicly available. Cogat was used and a smaller sub-set of WISC also if appealed/applied from outside FCPS system. NNat was highly variable and more complicated so they didn't use simple means. I saw it in the context of a training on psychoeducational assessments.

You must have misunderstood the data. Slightly less than 10% of FCPS kids are in-pool on CogAT, and not all of those kids are admitted to AAP. About 21% of the FCPS kids are found eligible for AAP Level IV. This means that over half of the kids in AAP had below-pool CogAT scores, and thus the median CogAT composite would have to be below 132.

Well, I think I said mean, not median and there was a large bump in the data around 128-131 on the parent referrals--and another small bump at ceiling in the overall data on COGAT so I don't think I'm incorrect on the mean. I know it was above 130 and I do know how to read data. And if WISC was used in appeals it supplanted COGAT as it was more robust (we were working with WISC and its correlation to other measures so that's where I had the most info). Now, since I'm not looking at the paper, I don't remember the precise details, and there could have been data limitations but the idea that there's tons of kids with scores in the teens/low 20s was not what I saw at all.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on tests that are influenced by prep. The population of both areas is similar. The main difference is AAP is top 15% wheat as MCPS GT is top 3%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on tests that are influenced by prep. The population of both areas is similar. The main difference is AAP is top 15% wheat as MCPS GT is top 3%.

People in Fairfax like to believe that their county is so much more special snowflake gifted than all of the surrounding counties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on tests that are influenced by prep. The population of both areas is similar. The main difference is AAP is top 15% wheat as MCPS GT is top 3%.

In MCPS, it's not that there are fewer gifted kids or that only the best of the best are in the gifted program. It's that most gifted kids are in gen ed because they didn't get into the too-small small program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on tests that are influenced by prep. The population of both areas is similar. The main difference is AAP is top 15% wheat as MCPS GT is top 3%.

In MCPS, it's not that there are fewer gifted kids or that only the best of the best are in the gifted program. It's that most gifted kids are in gen ed because they didn't get into the too-small small program.

The MCPS program used to just be focused on outlier kids that could not be accommodated at the home school...no intention of included every "gifted' kids (whatever that its). Now they are expanding the program so some of the home school programs have 30% of all kids. It will be more like FCPS within the decade.