Solving the Wilson Feeder crisis - charter schools

[Anonymous]

The city can be roughly divided into three zones -- East of the Anacostia, West of Rock Creek, and between the River and the Creek. I realize it's not impossible to cross a body of water to go to school but they do create geographical barriers which shape the city.

East of the Anacostia:
Number of schools: 24
Projected Capacity, 2027:10,642
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 9,407
Seat surplus/(deficity): 1,235
Number of schools with a deficit: 6

West of Rock Creek:

Number of schools: 10
Projected Capacity, 2027: 5,176
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 6,298
Seat surplus/(deficit): (1,122)
Number of schools with a deficit: 10

Between the River and the Creek:

Number of schools: 31
Projected Capacity, 2027: 14,406
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 15,405
Seat surplus/(deficit): (999)
Number of schools with a deficit: 20

Grand Total
Number of schools: 65
Projected Capacity, 2027: 30,224
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 31,110
Seat surplus/(deficit): (886)
Number of schools with a deficit: 36

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The looming crisis is in elementary schools, not middle and high.

I posted the list above, which comes straight out of the DME MFP.

Overall, DCPS will have 886 fewer seats than enrolled students in elementary schools in 2027. However, those aren't evenly distributed. East of the Anacostia there will be a surplus. The rest of the city will be about 2,000 seats short.

No amount of boundary shuffling can make up for the fact that there just aren't enough seats.

They can move grades 6-8 out of the schools that still have it and into middle schools with excess capacity, remove PK from some elementaries, change feeder patterns and rules so that some schools are less desirable for OOB, move where some self-contained special ed classrooms are located, and move some of the boundaries. It isn't hard as a math problem; it's just hard politically.

In general the capacity in K-8 schools is not in places that need seats. For example, there are no K-8 schools west of Rock Creek, and not enough in Columbia Heights, Shaw/Dupont and Capitol Hill to deal with the need.

A more realistic solution would be to close Wilson as a high school and make it a mega elementary school. Send all of Ward 3 to a high school on the other side of Rock Creek, along with about half of the kids who currently go to Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The city can be roughly divided into three zones -- East of the Anacostia, West of Rock Creek, and between the River and the Creek. I realize it's not impossible to cross a body of water to go to school but they do create geographical barriers which shape the city.

East of the Anacostia:
Number of schools: 24
Projected Capacity, 2027:10,642
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 9,407
Seat surplus/(deficity): 1,235
Number of schools with a deficit: 6

West of Rock Creek:

Number of schools: 10
Projected Capacity, 2027: 5,176
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 6,298
Seat surplus/(deficit): (1,122)
Number of schools with a deficit: 10

Between the River and the Creek:

Number of schools: 31
Projected Capacity, 2027: 14,406
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 15,405
Seat surplus/(deficit): (999)
Number of schools with a deficit: 20

Grand Total
Number of schools: 65
Projected Capacity, 2027: 30,224
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 31,110
Seat surplus/(deficit): (886)
Number of schools with a deficit: 36

this is a helpful set of data. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The looming crisis is in elementary schools, not middle and high.

I posted the list above, which comes straight out of the DME MFP.

Overall, DCPS will have 886 fewer seats than enrolled students in elementary schools in 2027. However, those aren't evenly distributed. East of the Anacostia there will be a surplus. The rest of the city will be about 2,000 seats short.

No amount of boundary shuffling can make up for the fact that there just aren't enough seats.

They can move grades 6-8 out of the schools that still have it and into middle schools with excess capacity, remove PK from some elementaries, change feeder patterns and rules so that some schools are less desirable for OOB, move where some self-contained special ed classrooms are located, and move some of the boundaries. It isn't hard as a math problem; it's just hard politically.

In general the capacity in K-8 schools is not in places that need seats. For example, there are no K-8 schools west of Rock Creek, and not enough in Columbia Heights, Shaw/Dupont and Capitol Hill to deal with the need.

A more realistic solution would be to close Wilson as a high school and make it a mega elementary school. Send all of Ward 3 to a high school on the other side of Rock Creek, along with about half of the kids who currently go to Deal.

People would flip, but this is the first innovative idea I have read on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. Especially languagenor Montessori.

You want 6th graders with no exposure to Montessori or immersion to start middle school?

No, these schools need to be more in line with Latin or other traditional schools. They need to be pulling from the Wilson feeder elementary schools, drawing them away from Deal and Hardy.

Except for the fact that charters are supposed to fill a curriculum void (language, Montessori, gifted ed, STEM, special ed, etc...), or pursue a civic mission, like education equity, *not* address overcrowding in a wealthy public school area. DCPS is responsible for planning to address that.

Of course, the city can get around that by allowing into Ward 3 a charter that fills a city-wide curriculum void. But I'd still much prefer that DCPS address overcrowding with high quality public schools, and that the city-wide charters be placed more centrally, accessible to the whole city, and further away from the private school kids.

Charters have used the curriculum gaps to expand, but that's not really the primary purpose. The charters movement began as an effort apply practical innovation which could be applied to the education landscape (public and private). In many ways DCPS has followed that lead in terms of expanding immersion, Montessori, etc.

But in reality, charters are mostly private entities carving out fiefdoms within the public ed landscape. As long as public dollars are being spent on charters the money should address structural inequities in public education, although that logic applies to the Wilson zone in a very different way than OP thinks.

A cryptic response. How does that logic apply to Wilson, exactly?

not really -- Wilson feed is the embodiment of inequity in DC public ed. Charters aren't intended to exacerbate this inequity by serving the overserved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The city can be roughly divided into three zones -- East of the Anacostia, West of Rock Creek, and between the River and the Creek. I realize it's not impossible to cross a body of water to go to school but they do create geographical barriers which shape the city.

East of the Anacostia:
Number of schools: 24
Projected Capacity, 2027:10,642
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 9,407
Seat surplus/(deficity): 1,235
Number of schools with a deficit: 6

West of Rock Creek:

Number of schools: 10
Projected Capacity, 2027: 5,176
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 6,298
Seat surplus/(deficit): (1,122)
Number of schools with a deficit: 10

Between the River and the Creek:

Number of schools: 31
Projected Capacity, 2027: 14,406
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 15,405
Seat surplus/(deficit): (999)
Number of schools with a deficit: 20

Grand Total
Number of schools: 65
Projected Capacity, 2027: 30,224
Projected Enrollment, 2027: 31,110
Seat surplus/(deficit): (886)
Number of schools with a deficit: 36

this is a helpful set of data. Thank you.

What this tells me is that the 2022 redrawing of boundaries is going to be very different from the last time it was done, in 2012. That time they nibbled around the edges and mostly left things the same. By 2022, if 36 schools need to shed students, the other 29 are going to have to add them, and every school in the city is going to be affected. When you consider that before 2012 the last time boundaries were looked at in a comprehensive manner was in 1972 you're really looking at an event unprecedented in the city's history.

I really worry that redrawing all of the boundaries is going to be beyond the abilities of DCPS and they're going to throw their hands up and go all-lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The looming crisis is in elementary schools, not middle and high.

I posted the list above, which comes straight out of the DME MFP.

Overall, DCPS will have 886 fewer seats than enrolled students in elementary schools in 2027. However, those aren't evenly distributed. East of the Anacostia there will be a surplus. The rest of the city will be about 2,000 seats short.

No amount of boundary shuffling can make up for the fact that there just aren't enough seats.

They can move grades 6-8 out of the schools that still have it and into middle schools with excess capacity, remove PK from some elementaries, change feeder patterns and rules so that some schools are less desirable for OOB, move where some self-contained special ed classrooms are located, and move some of the boundaries. It isn't hard as a math problem; it's just hard politically.

In general the capacity in K-8 schools is not in places that need seats. For example, there are no K-8 schools west of Rock Creek, and not enough in Columbia Heights, Shaw/Dupont and Capitol Hill to deal with the need.

A more realistic solution would be to close Wilson as a high school and make it a mega elementary school. Send all of Ward 3 to a high school on the other side of Rock Creek, along with about half of the kids who currently go to Deal.

People would flip, but this is the first innovative idea I have read on DCUM.

DCUM is full of "innovative" ideas, this is the rare one that has some logic behind it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. Especially languagenor Montessori.

You want 6th graders with no exposure to Montessori or immersion to start middle school?

No, these schools need to be more in line with Latin or other traditional schools. They need to be pulling from the Wilson feeder elementary schools, drawing them away from Deal and Hardy.

Except for the fact that charters are supposed to fill a curriculum void (language, Montessori, gifted ed, STEM, special ed, etc...), or pursue a civic mission, like education equity, *not* address overcrowding in a wealthy public school area. DCPS is responsible for planning to address that.

Of course, the city can get around that by allowing into Ward 3 a charter that fills a city-wide curriculum void. But I'd still much prefer that DCPS address overcrowding with high quality public schools, and that the city-wide charters be placed more centrally, accessible to the whole city, and further away from the private school kids.

Charters have used the curriculum gaps to expand, but that's not really the primary purpose. The charters movement began as an effort apply practical innovation which could be applied to the education landscape (public and private). In many ways DCPS has followed that lead in terms of expanding immersion, Montessori, etc.

But in reality, charters are mostly private entities carving out fiefdoms within the public ed landscape. As long as public dollars are being spent on charters the money should address structural inequities in public education, although that logic applies to the Wilson zone in a very different way than OP thinks.

A cryptic response. How does that logic apply to Wilson, exactly?

not really -- Wilson feed is the embodiment of inequity in DC public ed. Charters aren't intended to exacerbate this inequity by serving the overserved

But they are not overserved by a long shot. And moreover, one of the main problems is that they are serving so many OOB kids- kids who are lower SES, which is then offering all that overserved benefits to the underserved. You can't say that Deal/Wlison is overserved when 41%/30% of the students are from other parts of the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The looming crisis is in elementary schools, not middle and high.

I posted the list above, which comes straight out of the DME MFP.

Overall, DCPS will have 886 fewer seats than enrolled students in elementary schools in 2027. However, those aren't evenly distributed. East of the Anacostia there will be a surplus. The rest of the city will be about 2,000 seats short.

No amount of boundary shuffling can make up for the fact that there just aren't enough seats.

They can move grades 6-8 out of the schools that still have it and into middle schools with excess capacity, remove PK from some elementaries, change feeder patterns and rules so that some schools are less desirable for OOB, move where some self-contained special ed classrooms are located, and move some of the boundaries. It isn't hard as a math problem; it's just hard politically.

In general the capacity in K-8 schools is not in places that need seats. For example, there are no K-8 schools west of Rock Creek, and not enough in Columbia Heights, Shaw/Dupont and Capitol Hill to deal with the need.

A more realistic solution would be to close Wilson as a high school and make it a mega elementary school. Send all of Ward 3 to a high school on the other side of Rock Creek, along with about half of the kids who currently go to Deal.

People would flip, but this is the first innovative idea I have read on DCUM.

DCUM is full of "innovative" ideas, this is the rare one that has some logic behind it.

I don't get it. And what do you do with the 1000s of spaces at the WOTP elementary schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. Especially languagenor Montessori.

You want 6th graders with no exposure to Montessori or immersion to start middle school?

No, these schools need to be more in line with Latin or other traditional schools. They need to be pulling from the Wilson feeder elementary schools, drawing them away from Deal and Hardy.

Except for the fact that charters are supposed to fill a curriculum void (language, Montessori, gifted ed, STEM, special ed, etc...), or pursue a civic mission, like education equity, *not* address overcrowding in a wealthy public school area. DCPS is responsible for planning to address that.

Of course, the city can get around that by allowing into Ward 3 a charter that fills a city-wide curriculum void. But I'd still much prefer that DCPS address overcrowding with high quality public schools, and that the city-wide charters be placed more centrally, accessible to the whole city, and further away from the private school kids.

Charters have used the curriculum gaps to expand, but that's not really the primary purpose. The charters movement began as an effort apply practical innovation which could be applied to the education landscape (public and private). In many ways DCPS has followed that lead in terms of expanding immersion, Montessori, etc.

But in reality, charters are mostly private entities carving out fiefdoms within the public ed landscape. As long as public dollars are being spent on charters the money should address structural inequities in public education, although that logic applies to the Wilson zone in a very different way than OP thinks.

A cryptic response. How does that logic apply to Wilson, exactly?

not really -- Wilson feed is the embodiment of inequity in DC public ed. Charters aren't intended to exacerbate this inequity by serving the overserved

But they are not overserved by a long shot. And moreover, one of the main problems is that they are serving so many OOB kids- kids who are lower SES, which is then offering all that overserved benefits to the underserved. You can't say that Deal/Wlison is overserved when 41%/30% of the students are from other parts of the city.

(that should be 30%/41%)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. Especially languagenor Montessori.

You want 6th graders with no exposure to Montessori or immersion to start middle school?

No, these schools need to be more in line with Latin or other traditional schools. They need to be pulling from the Wilson feeder elementary schools, drawing them away from Deal and Hardy.

No, but the feeder elementary schools are over capacity as well. Start there.

The problem is that if you siphon off the elementary schools, DCPS will replace those kids with OOB kids. They WANT the OOB system to stay robust. Keep the elementary schools limited (thus not increasing potential OOB seats anywhere) and you keep the flow upwards limited. Increase elementary seats only means increasing demand up river. The expansion needs to be where the real crisis is -- Deal and Wilson.

This is right, although it's only one of two possible solutions. Yes, yo could expand Deal and Wilson, or you could restrict the as-of-right slots at Deal and Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The looming crisis is in elementary schools, not middle and high.

I posted the list above, which comes straight out of the DME MFP.

Overall, DCPS will have 886 fewer seats than enrolled students in elementary schools in 2027. However, those aren't evenly distributed. East of the Anacostia there will be a surplus. The rest of the city will be about 2,000 seats short.

No amount of boundary shuffling can make up for the fact that there just aren't enough seats.

They can move grades 6-8 out of the schools that still have it and into middle schools with excess capacity, remove PK from some elementaries, change feeder patterns and rules so that some schools are less desirable for OOB, move where some self-contained special ed classrooms are located, and move some of the boundaries. It isn't hard as a math problem; it's just hard politically.

In general the capacity in K-8 schools is not in places that need seats. For example, there are no K-8 schools west of Rock Creek, and not enough in Columbia Heights, Shaw/Dupont and Capitol Hill to deal with the need.

A more realistic solution would be to close Wilson as a high school and make it a mega elementary school. Send all of Ward 3 to a high school on the other side of Rock Creek, along with about half of the kids who currently go to Deal.

Francis-Stevens and Oyster-Adams are pretty close to the park and both are PK-8. Ending them at 5th would be a step in the right direction; not sufficient on its own but useful. Miner also has a ton of excess capacity that could be used to help more crowded schools in Hill East, and Savoy has enough space that it can take some of the Van Ness overflow. With it being a block from the green line metro and right on the P6 and other bus lines, it's a reasonable commute. Using Joy Evans and/or the Capper Community Center for some PK classrooms would also help in Navy Yard. The hard part of the boundary and feeder process is not finding solutions but dealing with people's feelings about those solutions (which generally boil down to not wanting their kids to go to a poorer/lower-scoring school than they currently have rights to).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. Especially languagenor Montessori.

You want 6th graders with no exposure to Montessori or immersion to start middle school?

No, these schools need to be more in line with Latin or other traditional schools. They need to be pulling from the Wilson feeder elementary schools, drawing them away from Deal and Hardy.

Except for the fact that charters are supposed to fill a curriculum void (language, Montessori, gifted ed, STEM, special ed, etc...), or pursue a civic mission, like education equity, *not* address overcrowding in a wealthy public school area. DCPS is responsible for planning to address that.

Of course, the city can get around that by allowing into Ward 3 a charter that fills a city-wide curriculum void. But I'd still much prefer that DCPS address overcrowding with high quality public schools, and that the city-wide charters be placed more centrally, accessible to the whole city, and further away from the private school kids.

Charters have used the curriculum gaps to expand, but that's not really the primary purpose. The charters movement began as an effort apply practical innovation which could be applied to the education landscape (public and private). In many ways DCPS has followed that lead in terms of expanding immersion, Montessori, etc.

But in reality, charters are mostly private entities carving out fiefdoms within the public ed landscape. As long as public dollars are being spent on charters the money should address structural inequities in public education, although that logic applies to the Wilson zone in a very different way than OP thinks.

A cryptic response. How does that logic apply to Wilson, exactly?

not really -- Wilson feed is the embodiment of inequity in DC public ed. Charters aren't intended to exacerbate this inequity by serving the overserved

But they are not overserved by a long shot. And moreover, one of the main problems is that they are serving so many OOB kids- kids who are lower SES, which is then offering all that overserved benefits to the underserved. You can't say that Deal/Wlison is overserved when 41%/30% of the students are from other parts of the city.

DCPS is going to be 1,122 seats short in the WOTP elementary schools. Make Wilson a 1600-seat elementary and create 478 new OOB seats WOTP in addition to solving the shortage. Everyone who is at Wilson today goes to Roosevelt, everyone at Roosevelt goes to Coolidge and Dunbar. I bet the net commute decreases.

Deal would then be way, way too small. So Lafayette and Shepherd and all of northern Ward 3 goes to Ida Wells, eastern Ward 3 goes to MacFarlane.

DCPS has too many high schools, and they're not where they're needed.

[Anonymous]

A mega-elementary school is a ridiculous idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A mega-elementary school is a ridiculous idea.

The other alternatives are build 1100+ new seats WOTP (at around $100K/seat) or send 1100+ kids EOTP for elementary school. Or maybe lose those kids to privates and Bethesda.