Solving the Wilson Feeder crisis - charter schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1), 2), and charter, I'd still pick 2) for a new middle, a new high, AND old Hardy for Elementary spillovers and specials.

But that is just not going to happen. So, moving forward, what do you suggest.

Says who? If it's the only responsible way forward, I have no reason to accept "it's just not going to happen" from some anonymous dudette on the Internet.

Have you attended or read anything from the Wilson Feeder group? They have said that is DCPS' answer.

np: So DCPS is going to have to change. It’s their responsibility to do their jobs.

And when they don't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These days, to get approved charters need to show how they are going to attract low-income students and maintain economic diversity. The solution is generally location; ie, far from Ward 3.

Also, it would be great if there were a high school-only charter. But the charters want to start earlier, not later. Even charters starting at 5th Grade is part of the current problem, as students from DCPS ESs take those seats in 5th, since they likely can’t get in in 6th, and then DCPS fills those 5th grade seats with OOB who feed on to Deal and Wilson.

Do you realize how few students in from Wilson feeder pattern actually attend a charter school? And how few 5th graders who go to the handfull of charters which start at 5th leae a feeder pattern which has Deal or Wilson (or even Hardy) as a destination? The numbers are minuscule.

Where students live -- Charter Enrollment by Ward 2018-19https://www.dcpcsb.org/data/evaluating-student-enrollment/student-enrollment

Ward 1 3,608 8%

Ward 2 523 1%

Ward 3 463 1%

Ward 4 6,601 15%

Ward 5 7,703 18%

Ward 6 3,697 8%

Ward 7 9,484 22%

Ward 8 11,757 27%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1), 2), and charter, I'd still pick 2) for a new middle, a new high, AND old Hardy for Elementary spillovers and specials.

But that is just not going to happen. So, moving forward, what do you suggest.

Says who? If it's the only responsible way forward, I have no reason to accept "it's just not going to happen" from some anonymous dudette on the Internet.

Have you attended or read anything from the Wilson Feeder group? They have said that is DCPS' answer.

Here's a discussion with links to the documentation.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/784506.page

And the Working Group response to the DCPS report. https://ruth4schools.com/ward3-wilson-feeder-school-ednet-letter-on-overcrowding/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These days, to get approved charters need to show how they are going to attract low-income students and maintain economic diversity. The solution is generally location; ie, far from Ward 3.

Also, it would be great if there were a high school-only charter. But the charters want to start earlier, not later. Even charters starting at 5th Grade is part of the current problem, as students from DCPS ESs take those seats in 5th, since they likely can’t get in in 6th, and then DCPS fills those 5th grade seats with OOB who feed on to Deal and Wilson.

Do you realize how few students in from Wilson feeder pattern actually attend a charter school? And how few 5th graders who go to the handfull of charters which start at 5th leae a feeder pattern which has Deal or Wilson (or even Hardy) as a destination? The numbers are minuscule.

Where students live -- Charter Enrollment by Ward 2018-19https://www.dcpcsb.org/data/evaluating-student-enrollment/student-enrollment

Ward 1 3,608 8%

Ward 2 523 1%

Ward 3 463 1%

Ward 4 6,601 15%

Ward 5 7,703 18%

Ward 6 3,697 8%

Ward 7 9,484 22%

Ward 8 11,757 27%

Well that makes sense because they already live where the few decent DCPS schools are. But it doesn't mean they won't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1), 2), and charter, I'd still pick 2) for a new middle, a new high, AND old Hardy for Elementary spillovers and specials.

But that is just not going to happen. So, moving forward, what do you suggest.

Says who? If it's the only responsible way forward, I have no reason to accept "it's just not going to happen" from some anonymous dudette on the Internet.

Have you attended or read anything from the Wilson Feeder group? They have said that is DCPS' answer.

np: So DCPS is going to have to change. It’s their responsibility to do their jobs.

And when they don't?

Vote out the mayor. (No idea why people just reelected her.)

So it will take time, but DCPS leaders are public servants, not dictators.

And as long as they keep failing to implement the effective solutions, they will get the same poor outcomes and will, at some point, lose their jobs.

[Anonymous]

The other benefit of this theory is getting more high SES people on board and supporting the charter sector. These are the same folks who raise tons of money and are able to get organized and equipped to advocate for issues around the city. Having them supporting more $ for capital planning and other charter costs would benefit the sector as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1), 2), and charter, I'd still pick 2) for a new middle, a new high, AND old Hardy for Elementary spillovers and specials.

But that is just not going to happen. So, moving forward, what do you suggest.

Says who? If it's the only responsible way forward, I have no reason to accept "it's just not going to happen" from some anonymous dudette on the Internet.

Have you attended or read anything from the Wilson Feeder group? They have said that is DCPS' answer.

np: So DCPS is going to have to change. It’s their responsibility to do their jobs.

And when they don't?

Vote out the mayor. (No idea why people just reelected her.)

So it will take time, but DCPS leaders are public servants, not dictators.

And as long as they keep failing to implement the effective solutions, they will get the same poor outcomes and will, at some point, lose their jobs.

No they won't. Because keeping OOB rights is hugely popular around the city, even though most kids won't actually get into those schools. The concept is what's important. Why do you think they haven't ended it already? because the constituency wants it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These days, to get approved charters need to show how they are going to attract low-income students and maintain economic diversity. The solution is generally location; ie, far from Ward 3.

Also, it would be great if there were a high school-only charter. But the charters want to start earlier, not later. Even charters starting at 5th Grade is part of the current problem, as students from DCPS ESs take those seats in 5th, since they likely can’t get in in 6th, and then DCPS fills those 5th grade seats with OOB who feed on to Deal and Wilson.

Do you realize how few students in from Wilson feeder pattern actually attend a charter school? And how few 5th graders who go to the handfull of charters which start at 5th leae a feeder pattern which has Deal or Wilson (or even Hardy) as a destination? The numbers are minuscule.

Where students live -- Charter Enrollment by Ward 2018-19https://www.dcpcsb.org/data/evaluating-student-enrollment/student-enrollment

Ward 1 3,608 8%

Ward 2 523 1%

Ward 3 463 1%

Ward 4 6,601 15%

Ward 5 7,703 18%

Ward 6 3,697 8%

Ward 7 9,484 22%

Ward 8 11,757 27%

I do realize that. But that 1% is heading off at 5th grade, not 1st grade or 6th grade, and their spot is being filled by an OOB for the duration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These days, to get approved charters need to show how they are going to attract low-income students and maintain economic diversity. The solution is generally location; ie, far from Ward 3.

Also, it would be great if there were a high school-only charter. But the charters want to start earlier, not later. Even charters starting at 5th Grade is part of the current problem, as students from DCPS ESs take those seats in 5th, since they likely can’t get in in 6th, and then DCPS fills those 5th grade seats with OOB who feed on to Deal and Wilson.

Do you realize how few students in from Wilson feeder pattern actually attend a charter school? And how few 5th graders who go to the handfull of charters which start at 5th leae a feeder pattern which has Deal or Wilson (or even Hardy) as a destination? The numbers are minuscule.

Where students live -- Charter Enrollment by Ward 2018-19https://www.dcpcsb.org/data/evaluating-student-enrollment/student-enrollment

Ward 1 3,608 8%

Ward 2 523 1%

Ward 3 463 1%

Ward 4 6,601 15%

Ward 5 7,703 18%

Ward 6 3,697 8%

Ward 7 9,484 22%

Ward 8 11,757 27%

I do realize that. But that 1% is heading off at 5th grade, not 1st grade or 6th grade, and their spot is being filled by an OOB for the duration.

Exactly. We need 6th-12th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1), 2), and charter, I'd still pick 2) for a new middle, a new high, AND old Hardy for Elementary spillovers and specials.

But that is just not going to happen. So, moving forward, what do you suggest.

Says who? If it's the only responsible way forward, I have no reason to accept "it's just not going to happen" from some anonymous dudette on the Internet.

Have you attended or read anything from the Wilson Feeder group? They have said that is DCPS' answer.

np: So DCPS is going to have to change. It’s their responsibility to do their jobs.

And when they don't?

Vote out the mayor. (No idea why people just reelected her.)

So it will take time, but DCPS leaders are public servants, not dictators.

And as long as they keep failing to implement the effective solutions, they will get the same poor outcomes and will, at some point, lose their jobs.

No they won't. Because keeping OOB rights is hugely popular around the city, even though most kids won't actually get into those schools. The concept is what's important. Why do you think they haven't ended it already? because the constituency wants it.

Ah, wait a sec, I'm not asking for 1), but for 2). Because OOB rights are already dying out on their own. That "problem" (which I dont' think it is) is self-correcting as the Ward 3 families crowd out the OOB students in middles and elementaries.

Meanwhile, noone, other than some anonymous weirdos on DCUM who oppose and namecall Ward 3 regardless of what is said or done, is opposing new public schools in Ward 3. If DCPS says it isn't going to happen, they need their minds changed with numbers and voices.

Ward 3 families who don't get into their Ward 3 PK, or won't send their kids to overcrowded Ward 3 public schools aren't commuting EOTP, they're going private. So this idea that building adequate capacity in Ward 3 would hurt the other schools in town by keeping them half-empty doesn't make sense. You want EOTP schools to fill up? Offer honors courses and tracking. Anything Basis and Latin offer, have McFarland offer it too. You'll fill it right up with high-achieving students and will have a gem of a model for public integrated education in our nation's capital. Strangling Ward 3 schools won't achieve that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Between 1), 2), and charter, I'd still pick 2) for a new middle, a new high, AND old Hardy for Elementary spillovers and specials.

But that is just not going to happen. So, moving forward, what do you suggest.

Says who? If it's the only responsible way forward, I have no reason to accept "it's just not going to happen" from some anonymous dudette on the Internet.

Have you attended or read anything from the Wilson Feeder group? They have said that is DCPS' answer.

np: So DCPS is going to have to change. It’s their responsibility to do their jobs.

And when they don't?

Vote out the mayor. (No idea why people just reelected her.)

So it will take time, but DCPS leaders are public servants, not dictators.

And as long as they keep failing to implement the effective solutions, they will get the same poor outcomes and will, at some point, lose their jobs.

No they won't. Because keeping OOB rights is hugely popular around the city, even though most kids won't actually get into those schools. The concept is what's important. Why do you think they haven't ended it already? because the constituency wants it.

Ah, wait a sec, I'm not asking for 1), but for 2). Because OOB rights are already dying out on their own. That "problem" (which I dont' think it is) is self-correcting as the Ward 3 families crowd out the OOB students in middles and elementaries.

Meanwhile, noone, other than some anonymous weirdos on DCUM who oppose and namecall Ward 3 regardless of what is said or done, is opposing new public schools in Ward 3. If DCPS says it isn't going to happen, they need their minds changed with numbers and voices.

Ward 3 families who don't get into their Ward 3 PK, or won't send their kids to overcrowded Ward 3 public schools aren't commuting EOTP, they're going private. So this idea that building adequate capacity in Ward 3 would hurt the other schools in town by keeping them half-empty doesn't make sense. You want EOTP schools to fill up? Offer honors courses and tracking. Anything Basis and Latin offer, have McFarland offer it too. You'll fill it right up with high-achieving students and will have a gem of a model for public integrated education in our nation's capital. Strangling Ward 3 schools won't achieve that.

It isn't dying out at all. Take Lafayette, for example. It has gone from 700 to 900 kids in 4 years. Most of that growth is IB kids, but not all. The OOB percentage has been between 10-15% each year. It's currently 14% OOB (which does include special ed classrooms.) So as the school has grown, the OOB kid numbers have also grown. The same is true in other schools like Murch and Janney. Now in schools like Hearst and Eaton which had higher numbers of OOB kids to begin with, those percentages are coming down, but they will be stopped at whatever the appropriate level of OOB is to the city.

[Anonymous]

I think a more likely scenario is DCPS abandons a neighborhood-based school system and goes all-lottery.

Already, over three-quarters of the kids in public school don't go to their in-boundary school. Add in the private school kids and it's more like four-fifths.

The Wilson feeder pattern is projected to grow by 33% between now and 2027, adding 3190 students. No school in the pattern will grow less than 22%. Shifting boundaries won't solve the problem, because there aren't nearby schools with capacity. The schools with capacity are in the eastern part of the city.

The answer is build more schools or send the kids elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think a more likely scenario is DCPS abandons a neighborhood-based school system and goes all-lottery.

Already, over three-quarters of the kids in public school don't go to their in-boundary school. Add in the private school kids and it's more like four-fifths.

The Wilson feeder pattern is projected to grow by 33% between now and 2027, adding 3190 students. No school in the pattern will grow less than 22%. Shifting boundaries won't solve the problem, because there aren't nearby schools with capacity. The schools with capacity are in the eastern part of the city.

The answer is build more schools or send the kids elsewhere.

So send the lottery-losing Wilson IB kids to Dunbar rather than send the OOB kids to whatever their neighborhood HS are?

Holds no logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a more likely scenario is DCPS abandons a neighborhood-based school system and goes all-lottery.

Already, over three-quarters of the kids in public school don't go to their in-boundary school. Add in the private school kids and it's more like four-fifths.

The Wilson feeder pattern is projected to grow by 33% between now and 2027, adding 3190 students. No school in the pattern will grow less than 22%. Shifting boundaries won't solve the problem, because there aren't nearby schools with capacity. The schools with capacity are in the eastern part of the city.

The answer is build more schools or send the kids elsewhere.

So send the lottery-losing Wilson IB kids to Dunbar rather than send the OOB kids to whatever their neighborhood HS are?

Holds no logic.

Or just send Shepherd and Lafayette to Wells and Coolidge, and Oyster and Bancroft to MacFarland and Roosevelt. That would help overcrowding at Deal and Wilson tremendously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These days, to get approved charters need to show how they are going to attract low-income students and maintain economic diversity. The solution is generally location; ie, far from Ward 3.

Also, it would be great if there were a high school-only charter. But the charters want to start earlier, not later. Even charters starting at 5th Grade is part of the current problem, as students from DCPS ESs take those seats in 5th, since they likely can’t get in in 6th, and then DCPS fills those 5th grade seats with OOB who feed on to Deal and Wilson.

Do you realize how few students in from Wilson feeder pattern actually attend a charter school? And how few 5th graders who go to the handfull of charters which start at 5th leae a feeder pattern which has Deal or Wilson (or even Hardy) as a destination? The numbers are minuscule.

Where students live -- Charter Enrollment by Ward 2018-19https://www.dcpcsb.org/data/evaluating-student-enrollment/student-enrollment

Ward 1 3,608 8%

Ward 2 523 1%

Ward 3 463 1%

Ward 4 6,601 15%

Ward 5 7,703 18%

Ward 6 3,697 8%

Ward 7 9,484 22%

Ward 8 11,757 27%

I do realize that. But that 1% is heading off at 5th grade, not 1st grade or 6th grade, and their spot is being filled by an OOB for the duration.

Exactly. We need 6th-12th.

Even at the MS and HS schools which are high performing (put aside desirable) the numbers coming from parts of the city that feed Wilson are tiny. You can essentially count them up on these maps because the density is so low.

Latin https://www.dcpcsb.org/washington-latin-pcs-middle-school-student-location-map
BASIS https://www.dcpcsb.org/washington-latin-pcs-middle-school-student-location-map
DCI https://www.dcpcsb.org/dc-international-school-location-map