Here's what I don't understand about red shirting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My youngest is an August birth and I have serious concerns about sending her on time. For one, children born in August are 34% more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD https://www.medpagetoday.com/neurology/adhd-add/76569

Surely that has to do with the fact that immaturity can look an awful lot like ADHD. Furthermore, they are less likely to graduate college than children born in September - why? Because during their primary schooling, they are being disciplined for their immaturity or simply not keeping up with their classmates in other ways. Children who think they are good at school like school more than kids who think they aren't very good at it.

They are also less likely to do well in maths as their brains aren't ready to learn it especially when it comes to middle and high school - and to suffer from poor self esteem. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9696487/Summer-born-children-struggling-with-maths.html

Many parents believe their August babies are doing well - my sister was an August baby and in all the Gifted and Talented programs throughout elementary school. But by 7th grade, she began falling behind.

The system is designed to be efficient but not to be fair. Should I let my August baby suffer for the rest of her life or should I red shirt her?

I did with my late August birthday girl . For me it was a decision based on social immaturity, but all your reasons are valid too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a fall birthday child. We paid for private for 2 years and transferred child in at 2nd when they don't look at age. Problem solved. Its amazing the age range in our classroom. Its really an unfair advantage if a child a year-18 months gets 99% test scores while mine gets in the mid 90's so she misses the gifted programs and they get in and the true difference is age. Testing and other things should be age normed. If I held my child back they'd be in gifted and 99% but I prefer to have them age appropriate.

Gifted tests are age-normed.

Not in ACPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear people only think in the moment, because if they thought longer term they would realize their child will be a 20 or 21-year-old HS senior.

We didn't red shirt our child with the late-summer birthday, and she will graduate HS at 17. It will give her an earlier start on finishing her undergrad degree by 22, and grad school by 25. I'd rather help her get an earlier start on her career rather than kindergarten.

If her math ability is anything like yours, she may have been better off with that year of kindergarten! J/k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People have been redshirting for sixty years. It is not getting earlier and earlier with spring and winter birthdays being redshirted.

This is what people are claiming though.

You need to read actual studies and not the redshirting hysterics on DCUM.

More people are redshirting these days - studies show that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, stop. I've been in education for 20+ years. The concept of sending a child who was born within 1 month - at the most 6 weeks) before the cut off has been a conversation among middle class parents for all those 20 years. Nobody is talking about holding a child who was born in February and will therefore be 51/2 at Kindergarten entry into public school. They are talking about kids who turned 5 a few days before they start school. There is a HUGE difference at 5 years old between being barely 5 (Aug birthday) and being basically 6 (Sept/Oct birthday). Just as there is with a just turned 1 year old and a child who is basically 2 at 23 months old.

And for those who ARE held back with a spring birthday - the 2 examples given above - were a child who immigrated to this country with NO English and a child with serious developmental delays. (and frankly, a child with developmental delays needs MORE than just to be held back, but their parents know that - it's none of your business).

And by right before the cutoff I mean an August or mid July birthday for a Sept 1 cutoff, a Nov 15 through Dec 31 birthday for Dec 31 cutoff. Even the June kids are going to kindergarten.

Someone needs to be the youngest, someone needs to be the oldest, but if my child weren't socially and emotionally ready for the heavy lift of kindergarten (at this time, this country has VERY developmentally INappropriate kindergarten expectations for children, too) then I'd hold my August birthday kid back if he really wasn't ready. And some just aren't! Or, if I wasn't sure, I'd send him to a different Kindergarten (private or Waldorf), and then send him to either Public Kindergarten (to keep holding him back/redshirting) or 1st grade depending on whether he were ready.

+1 Could not agree with the bolded more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People have been redshirting for sixty years. It is not getting earlier and earlier with spring and winter birthdays being redshirted.

This is what people are claiming though.

You need to read actual studies and not the redshirting hysterics on DCUM.

More people are redshirting these days - studies show that.

It's still comparatively rare, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a fall birthday child. We paid for private for 2 years and transferred child in at 2nd when they don't look at age. Problem solved. Its amazing the age range in our classroom. Its really an unfair advantage if a child a year-18 months gets 99% test scores while mine gets in the mid 90's so she misses the gifted programs and they get in and the true difference is age. Testing and other things should be age normed. If I held my child back they'd be in gifted and 99% but I prefer to have them age appropriate.

Gifted tests are age-normed.

Not in ACPS.

I'm not certain that they are not age normed in ACPS. I am happy to hear other thoughts but I do think the aptitude tests are all age normed.

I understand that in FCPS we get 3 percentiles - local, national, and age, and what I think you might be saying is that you only get a national percentile in ACPS.

BUT, I think the score is still calculated on an age-normed basis. For example, I don't show my kid's scores to many people but I didn't understand how to read the COGAT report and I did show them to a friend who has a redshirted kid who took the COGAT at the same time. She commented that she could tell her kid had to get more right to get the same score as my kid (who was a year younger). I would still think COGAT scoring works that way in ACPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a thought; if it matters that much to you, plan your pregnancy accordingly.

Oh, why didn't I think to tell my two miscarried children that I needed them to get here on time for school? Silly me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a thought; if it matters that much to you, plan your pregnancy accordingly.

Oh, why didn't I think to tell my two miscarried children that I needed them to get here on time for school? Silly me.

Right? I wanted a February kid for kid 2. I had a miscarriage so I wound up with one born in late July. He will go to school on time though. Because I care more about not paying for another year of daycare than I do about my kid repeating kinder or being 17 in his senior year. #selfish

[Anonymous]

I believe all the standardized tests that are used for admission to AAP are age-normed. If you get private testing with a private child psychologist it will definitely be age-normed.

Anyway, people aren’t redshirting winter birthdays, and very few people are redshirting spring birthdays in the public schools. I don’t know about private schools, but they are free to set their own cutoff dates anyway. So perhaps private schools will move to an April 30th cutoff if people are redshirting the spring birthday kids. I seriously wouldn’t worry about some kind of redshirting arms race. It’s been going on for decades. If there was going to be rampant redshirting of non-summer birthdays, we would have already seen it by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I believe all the standardized tests that are used for admission to AAP are age-normed. If you get private testing with a private child psychologist it will definitely be age-normed.

Anyway, people aren’t redshirting winter birthdays, and very few people are redshirting spring birthdays in the public schools. I don’t know about private schools, but they are free to set their own cutoff dates anyway. So perhaps private schools will move to an April 30th cutoff if people are redshirting the spring birthday kids. I seriously wouldn’t worry about some kind of redshirting arms race. It’s been going on for decades. If there was going to be rampant redshirting of non-summer birthdays, we would have already seen it by now.

+1. In our private preschool classes are divided so that there are only 6 months between the youngest and oldest in the class. In my kid’s class last year all students were born between May and October. Of the 12-13 in the class I only know of 3 that went to K (or PK) on time. The two were born after the Sept.1st cutoff so they are not “redshirted”. Another girl with a last spring birthday also went on time. The rest (I know about 8 of them) were all held back, but they all had May-June-July-August birthdays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People have been redshirting for sixty years. It is not getting earlier and earlier with spring and winter birthdays being redshirted.

This is what people are claiming though.

You need to read actual studies and not the redshirting hysterics on DCUM.

More people are redshirting these days - studies show that.

Data from 2008 shows that 17 percent of children entering kindergarten that year were 6 years or older.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/08/beyond-the-pros-and-cons-of-redshirting/401159/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, stop. I've been in education for 20+ years. The concept of sending a child who was born within 1 month - at the most 6 weeks) before the cut off has been a conversation among middle class parents for all those 20 years. Nobody is talking about holding a child who was born in February and will therefore be 51/2 at Kindergarten entry into public school. They are talking about kids who turned 5 a few days before they start school. There is a HUGE difference at 5 years old between being barely 5 (Aug birthday) and being basically 6 (Sept/Oct birthday). Just as there is with a just turned 1 year old and a child who is basically 2 at 23 months old.

And for those who ARE held back with a spring birthday - the 2 examples given above - were a child who immigrated to this country with NO English and a child with serious developmental delays. (and frankly, a child with developmental delays needs MORE than just to be held back, but their parents know that - it's none of your business).

And by right before the cutoff I mean an August or mid July birthday for a Sept 1 cutoff, a Nov 15 through Dec 31 birthday for Dec 31 cutoff. Even the June kids are going to kindergarten.

Someone needs to be the youngest, someone needs to be the oldest, but if my child weren't socially and emotionally ready for the heavy lift of kindergarten (at this time, this country has VERY developmentally INappropriate kindergarten expectations for children, too) then I'd hold my August birthday kid back if he really wasn't ready. And some just aren't! Or, if I wasn't sure, I'd send him to a different Kindergarten (private or Waldorf), and then send him to either Public Kindergarten (to keep holding him back/redshirting) or 1st grade depending on whether he were ready.

+1 Could not agree with the bolded more.

+2 I was sent a year ahead of my peers. Different country, different time, but I was home by 1pm every day for the first 5 years or so. I am terrified of how my 5yo will be expected to be gone until 4pm each day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a fall birthday child. We paid for private for 2 years and transferred child in at 2nd when they don't look at age. Problem solved. Its amazing the age range in our classroom. Its really an unfair advantage if a child a year-18 months gets 99% test scores while mine gets in the mid 90's so she misses the gifted programs and they get in and the true difference is age. Testing and other things should be age normed. If I held my child back they'd be in gifted and 99% but I prefer to have them age appropriate.

I am confused by this. It sounds like the age appropriate class for your kid is the one a year younger than the one they're in. Otherwise why would you need to skirt the rules so they "didn't look at age"?

If you intentionally skirted the rules, then you can't complain that your kid is being compared to older kids. That's absurd. Asking for your child to be allowed to be in third grade gifted classes, when they have the age, maturity and skills of a gifted second grader is very selfish. You made your bed, at the expense of your child, now you need to lie in it.

My child missed the cut off by 2 weeks. Holding him back with kids up to two years younger is not age appropriate. We could have gone either way and choose to go with the higher grade. My child has the age, maturity and skills of a gifted kid. Our gifted starts later and only takes 2-3 kids per entire school so mine making in the high 90's isn't good enough for gifted. If we held back child would be really bored in school given how painfully slow the curriculum is. Even at a grade level, he's complaining its too slow and wanting to learn higher level math (but he wouldn't get that in gifted either). I didn't skirt the rules. A private school took my child and at 2nd age doesn't count. Years later it was the right choice. Plus, gifted early on in elementary school doesn't mean much as not all get slots in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People have been redshirting for sixty years. It is not getting earlier and earlier with spring and winter birthdays being redshirted.

This is what people are claiming though.

You need to read actual studies and not the redshirting hysterics on DCUM.

More people are redshirting these days - studies show that.

Data from 2008 shows that 17 percent of children entering kindergarten that year were 6 years or older.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/08/beyond-the-pros-and-cons-of-redshirting/401159/

You also have to take into account that the following states have cut offs that are 8/01 or earlier

Arkansas, Hawaii, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota,

While a number of other states leave the decision up to LEA's who might make the same decision.

So, some of those 17 percent are not kids who are redshirted.