Here's what I don't understand about red shirting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

I get it, but it’s still a mean competitive behavior. Why not look at each child independently instead of worrying at what percentage he/she falls with respect to his/her classmates? We are all adults and we know that age is not a big deal in the real world. I am sure plenty of us have bosses that are 1 or 2 years younger or employees that are older. I mentioned this before or in a separate threads, but the best student in my class (most hard working kid, not a genius) was the youngest. She actually skipped a grade and was almost 1 year younger than me and the worst student is one that had to repeat the year in high school because he failed. Where I grew up there are no sports in school and personally I don’t care much about them even now so maybe that’s different and I am sure we are all aware of Gladwell’s book that athletes that were older usually do better so maybe there is some connection between redshirting and sports, but I doubt there is one about academics (in the later years)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

I get it, but it’s still a mean competitive behavior. Why not look at each child independently instead of worrying at what percentage he/she falls with respect to his/her classmates? We are all adults and we know that age is not a big deal in the real world. I am sure plenty of us have bosses that are 1 or 2 years younger or employees that are older. I mentioned this before or in a separate threads, but the best student in my class (most hard working kid, not a genius) was the youngest. She actually skipped a grade and was almost 1 year younger than me and the worst student is one that had to repeat the year in high school because he failed. Where I grew up there are no sports in school and personally I don’t care much about them even now so maybe that’s different and I am sure we are all aware of Gladwell’s book that athletes that were older usually do better so maybe there is some connection between redshirting and sports, but I doubt there is one about academics (in the later years)

Actually, there's a correlation between age and IQ. Older-for-grade children are typically smarter than younger-for-grade children. Not always, as your grade -skipped student and retained student examples show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

I can see why parents are so competitive in the US (this is not the case else where). Kid are always compared to their classmates and this is wrong I think.
I remember when in college (went to an American university) I was introduced to the grading curve. They put you in competition with your own classmates. You want your friends to do bad so that your grade can be higher. In my culture this does not happen (probably one reason why the US economy does so much better) and I think that while collectively it’s good for the country, it is bad for the individual. My classmates were my friends and never my competition... we were united against the teachers. There was never a comparison some kids got As and some didn’t and age did not determine anything. The tests were made for our grade and so was the grading... just very different

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private schools need to be more open about their cutoff dates because I think some have unofficial cutoffs like June. If a parent follows that then to me it’s not really redshirting and is totally appropriate. If a child goes to a public school or a private school that doesn’t have a different internal cutoff then call it what it is - getting a leg up for your kid.

The laws allow it for many states — it’s not breaking the rules.

If you don’t like the rules, then change them. Don’t bitch about other people who are, in fact, following the rules.

I never said it was breaking the rules. It is allowed and done to give the child an advantage unless there are special needs. Own it!

Here is the advantage: kids get an extra year of being a kid. I fully own it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are kids who are redshirted twice (and some redshirted kids are retained). This seems to be a specific issue for specific private schools, not an issue that my public school kid will ever encounter.

If that’s the case and it’s upsetting to those parents/children, parents who send their kids to private schools are free to “vote with their dollars” and send their kids to another private school or to public school. But redshirting twice or redshirting/retaining just isn’t happening in public schools. Hell, even redshirting of non-summer birthdays is rare. Like “a small handful in an entire grade of hundreds of kids” level of rare.

I’m going to be super annoyed if all this “debate” is just a bunch of salty private school parents upset because their schools have their own cutoffs (official or “unofficial” and the parents just didn’t realize that’s how private schools do things.

It is precisely a bunch of salty private school parents whining. Redshirting is statistically relatively unusual in most public schools. It's bizarre that private school parents complain about redshirting, and combined with the fact that they frequently don't seem to be able to do basic math, I wonder about their thinking skills. It's particularly odd when they complain about redshirted kids "getting a leg up" when they are literally paying thousands of dollars every year to do the same thing on a far larger scale.

I almost feel like DCUM should have a sticky thread titled "Private School Parents Who Hate Redshirting: Here's What To Do" and then it will have a post that explains in easy-to-understand language how private school admissions work and offers a refresher on the concept of paying tuition voluntarily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care what other people do? That's no way to go through life.

I'm not OP - Because if your child is two years older than mine in the same classroom, that's a problem for my child.

Can't do math.

DP. A child with a February/March/April/May/June birthday would be two years older than my September birthday DC for a portion of the school year.

Yes, a child redshirted with a February birthday would turn 7 midway through kindergarten, but at that time, a non-redshirted September child would be 5.5. The February child is roughly 18 months older than a September child, not 2 years. Regardless, outside of private schools, redshirting of the spring birthday kids is quite rare, so I really don’t think this is something you’ll have to worry about.

I know of two children who were redshirted with birthdays during the school year, not during the summer. My kid doesn't think in terms of 5.5 compared to just-turned-7. Just 5 compared to 7.

You're correct that mostly redshirted kids are just 12-13 months older than my DC, not 18 months. In upper elementary grades, the differences are not so large anymore.

But, really, it doesn’t matter that a child thinks another kid is two years older. If the difference is 18 months, it is still 18 months no matter what a child thinks. And those cases are few and far between. With most kids, it is a 12 or 13 month difference in age, which makes very little difference in the classroom. You will always have about 12 months between the oldest and youngest anyway, and another 4-8 weeks will not have a substantial effect on what happens in the classroom.

People need to make the decisions that are best for their own children.

If there’s no difference then just sent the kids on time

Why? What’s the rush? Give the kid another year of age-appropriate environment.

I’m all for doing what’s best for your kid. But, for most kids at this age, a kindergarten classroom is the “age-appropriate environment.”

The typical K public school classroom in the US in 2019? Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting parents think they are beating the system. They aren’t. When you’re a kid, you want to be older and when you’re an adult, you want to be younger. Redshirting benefits someone in elementary school (most of the time) but starts to hurt them as they hit high school and graduate college. It stinks to lose another year to school. You spend YEARS in school and this isn’t including grad school. Why make your kid go through that just so they are a little bigger or faster in kindergarten? Kindergarten hardly matters. One less year of retirement savings does.

My parents were of this mindset, too. I ended up graduating college at 21...and had no clue what I wanted to do and wasn’t ready to hit the work force. So I went to law school and never used the degree. It doesn’t help to push someone who is not ready.

I started a 5-year grad program at 21, and have been working in that field for almost 20 years. Not sure you can necessarily blame lack of direction on being younger in your cohort.

Perhaps your parents pushed you toward law school, but that wasn’t your real interest?

I'm sure there was a lot at play, my point being, I would have benefited from another year to mature and decide what I wanted to do. I'm not in favor of pushing kids through as fast as possible with the end goal of graduating college as soon as possible, as the pp I was responding to advocated. I don't think redshirting is a given negative in college as pp said. I think it depends on the child/young adult and just wanted to show another outcome.

OTOH I was glad to have that extra year at 21 to decide what I wanted to do. I worked 4 years before attending grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care what other people do? That's no way to go through life.

I'm not OP - Because if your child is two years older than mine in the same classroom, that's a problem for my child.

Can't do math.

DP. A child with a February/March/April/May/June birthday would be two years older than my September birthday DC for a portion of the school year.

Yes, a child redshirted with a February birthday would turn 7 midway through kindergarten, but at that time, a non-redshirted September child would be 5.5. The February child is roughly 18 months older than a September child, not 2 years. Regardless, outside of private schools, redshirting of the spring birthday kids is quite rare, so I really don’t think this is something you’ll have to worry about.

I know of two children who were redshirted with birthdays during the school year, not during the summer. My kid doesn't think in terms of 5.5 compared to just-turned-7. Just 5 compared to 7.

You're correct that mostly redshirted kids are just 12-13 months older than my DC, not 18 months. In upper elementary grades, the differences are not so large anymore.

But, really, it doesn’t matter that a child thinks another kid is two years older. If the difference is 18 months, it is still 18 months no matter what a child thinks. And those cases are few and far between. With most kids, it is a 12 or 13 month difference in age, which makes very little difference in the classroom. You will always have about 12 months between the oldest and youngest anyway, and another 4-8 weeks will not have a substantial effect on what happens in the classroom.

People need to make the decisions that are best for their own children.

If there’s no difference then just sent the kids on time

Why? What’s the rush? Give the kid another year of age-appropriate environment.

I’m all for doing what’s best for your kid. But, for most kids at this age, a kindergarten classroom is the “age-appropriate environment.”

The typical K public school classroom in the US in 2019? Nope.

It is appropriate. You just choose to dumb down your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

I get it, but it’s still a mean competitive behavior. Why not look at each child independently instead of worrying at what percentage he/she falls with respect to his/her classmates? We are all adults and we know that age is not a big deal in the real world. I am sure plenty of us have bosses that are 1 or 2 years younger or employees that are older. I mentioned this before or in a separate threads, but the best student in my class (most hard working kid, not a genius) was the youngest. She actually skipped a grade and was almost 1 year younger than me and the worst student is one that had to repeat the year in high school because he failed. Where I grew up there are no sports in school and personally I don’t care much about them even now so maybe that’s different and I am sure we are all aware of Gladwell’s book that athletes that were older usually do better so maybe there is some connection between redshirting and sports, but I doubt there is one about academics (in the later years)

Actually, there's a correlation between age and IQ. Older-for-grade children are typically smarter than younger-for-grade children. Not always, as your grade -skipped student and retained student examples show.

No, there isn't. The difference is that the older kids are 12-18 months older, not smarter. I have a young for the grade and he's one of the smarter kids. If you hold your kid back and they are smart, then you just failed them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

I get it, but it’s still a mean competitive behavior. Why not look at each child independently instead of worrying at what percentage he/she falls with respect to his/her classmates? We are all adults and we know that age is not a big deal in the real world. I am sure plenty of us have bosses that are 1 or 2 years younger or employees that are older. I mentioned this before or in a separate threads, but the best student in my class (most hard working kid, not a genius) was the youngest. She actually skipped a grade and was almost 1 year younger than me and the worst student is one that had to repeat the year in high school because he failed. Where I grew up there are no sports in school and personally I don’t care much about them even now so maybe that’s different and I am sure we are all aware of Gladwell’s book that athletes that were older usually do better so maybe there is some connection between redshirting and sports, but I doubt there is one about academics (in the later years)

Actually, there's a correlation between age and IQ. Older-for-grade children are typically smarter than younger-for-grade children. Not always, as your grade -skipped student and retained student examples show.

No, there isn't. The difference is that the older kids are 12-18 months older, not smarter. I have a young for the grade and he's one of the smarter kids. If you hold your kid back and they are smart, then you just failed them.

Several studies show it. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4282424/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are kids who are redshirted twice (and some redshirted kids are retained). This seems to be a specific issue for specific private schools, not an issue that my public school kid will ever encounter.

If that’s the case and it’s upsetting to those parents/children, parents who send their kids to private schools are free to “vote with their dollars” and send their kids to another private school or to public school. But redshirting twice or redshirting/retaining just isn’t happening in public schools. Hell, even redshirting of non-summer birthdays is rare. Like “a small handful in an entire grade of hundreds of kids” level of rare.

I’m going to be super annoyed if all this “debate” is just a bunch of salty private school parents upset because their schools have their own cutoffs (official or “unofficial” and the parents just didn’t realize that’s how private schools do things.

It is precisely a bunch of salty private school parents whining. Redshirting is statistically relatively unusual in most public schools. It's bizarre that private school parents complain about redshirting, and combined with the fact that they frequently don't seem to be able to do basic math, I wonder about their thinking skills. It's particularly odd when they complain about redshirted kids "getting a leg up" when they are literally paying thousands of dollars every year to do the same thing on a far larger scale.

I almost feel like DCUM should have a sticky thread titled "Private School Parents Who Hate Redshirting: Here's What To Do" and then it will have a post that explains in easy-to-understand language how private school admissions work and offers a refresher on the concept of paying tuition voluntarily.

You’re making this up. - public school mom

[Anonymous]

I have a sister and a SIL who teach elementary school outside of this DMV area and neither one has more than a few red shirted kids in their classes. It's just not a 'thing' outside of this area like you think.

In this area? Absolutely, it's a big thing. My neighbor is a K teacher and does not have ONE boy in her class this year who wasn't red shirted last year. That's crazy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do you care what other people do? That's no way to go through life.

I'm not OP - Because if your child is two years older than mine in the same classroom, that's a problem for my child.

Can't do math.

DP. A child with a February/March/April/May/June birthday would be two years older than my September birthday DC for a portion of the school year.

Yes, a child redshirted with a February birthday would turn 7 midway through kindergarten, but at that time, a non-redshirted September child would be 5.5. The February child is roughly 18 months older than a September child, not 2 years. Regardless, outside of private schools, redshirting of the spring birthday kids is quite rare, so I really don’t think this is something you’ll have to worry about.

I know of two children who were redshirted with birthdays during the school year, not during the summer. My kid doesn't think in terms of 5.5 compared to just-turned-7. Just 5 compared to 7.

You're correct that mostly redshirted kids are just 12-13 months older than my DC, not 18 months. In upper elementary grades, the differences are not so large anymore.

But, really, it doesn’t matter that a child thinks another kid is two years older. If the difference is 18 months, it is still 18 months no matter what a child thinks. And those cases are few and far between. With most kids, it is a 12 or 13 month difference in age, which makes very little difference in the classroom. You will always have about 12 months between the oldest and youngest anyway, and another 4-8 weeks will not have a substantial effect on what happens in the classroom.

People need to make the decisions that are best for their own children.

If there’s no difference then just sent the kids on time

Why? What’s the rush? Give the kid another year of age-appropriate environment.

I’m all for doing what’s best for your kid. But, for most kids at this age, a kindergarten classroom is the “age-appropriate environment.”

The typical K public school classroom in the US in 2019? Nope.

It is appropriate. You just choose to dumb down your kid.

My kid is fine but thanks for your concern.

She can certainly handle math better than you nitwits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I don’t understand about all of these redshirting threads. People that believe that 1 extra year can be good for their kids because it will give them more time to mature, will hold their summer kids one year. Those that believe that redshirting is bad, will make kids bored, that is so bad to have An 18-19 year old in high school, will not redshirt.
There are so many decisions that we make for our kids (always what we believe is in their best interests). Are you raising your kids believeing in God, Santa, etc? Are you teaching them math and reading at 4 or waiting until they are in elementary school? We all have different beliefs on what is best for our own (specific) kid. Why do people care so much what other people do? Are the antiredshirted (that believe that redshirting will be a negative for the older kids) so invested in otherwise kids’ lives that worry so much about their parents making the wrong decision?
Now, if you (anti-redshirter) think that redshirting is actually good for those kids, but you can’t afford it for your own, then I see why this may be upsetting... but in his case redshirting is just like anything money can buy... tutors, vacations, private schools, etc.

I see, and agree, with much of your post but I think it’s slighty different as the non-redshirting parents feel like the parenting decision of those who do red shirt affects them. As their own children will be in a peer group and compared with older kids and may be at a disadvantage.

I get it, but it’s still a mean competitive behavior. Why not look at each child independently instead of worrying at what percentage he/she falls with respect to his/her classmates? We are all adults and we know that age is not a big deal in the real world. I am sure plenty of us have bosses that are 1 or 2 years younger or employees that are older. I mentioned this before or in a separate threads, but the best student in my class (most hard working kid, not a genius) was the youngest. She actually skipped a grade and was almost 1 year younger than me and the worst student is one that had to repeat the year in high school because he failed. Where I grew up there are no sports in school and personally I don’t care much about them even now so maybe that’s different and I am sure we are all aware of Gladwell’s book that athletes that were older usually do better so maybe there is some connection between redshirting and sports, but I doubt there is one about academics (in the later years)

Actually, there's a correlation between age and IQ. Older-for-grade children are typically smarter than younger-for-grade children. Not always, as your grade -skipped student and retained student examples show.

No, there isn't. The difference is that the older kids are 12-18 months older, not smarter. I have a young for the grade and he's one of the smarter kids. If you hold your kid back and they are smart, then you just failed them.

Not at all. In the end, my kid will learn all of the same things as a kid who started a year earlier. It’s not a race to see who can finish first.

You have failed as a person if you judge others this much.