Gay and Religious...how does this work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over how many people say, "The Bible is clear" on the topic of homosexuality. It's not. The words used to describe "homosexuality" didn't mean homosexuality as we know it. That term did not exist. The context and emphasis is much more about sexual immorality and 'excess.' During this time, it was common for men (mostly married) to take younger boys as additional lovers and this was a not a reciprocal arrangement. You can see this custom has survived in Afghanistan. Now that is truly evil. Prudish men who think homosexuality is "gross" have deliberately misinterpreted the Bible for hundreds of years and have pulled the wool over all the non-welcoming churches. It gives them power to convince their flock that they are being "strong" and are morally superior because they are the only ones willing to stand up for the "truth." This whole thing is probably a test from God to see who took his exhortation to love your neighbors as yourself seriously or if the sense of superiority was just too strong. Sadly, we're failing this test as a religion...

Yes the Bible never uses the word “homosexuality” Yet Romans 1:27 says that the “men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” What else do you think this means? How much do you have to stretch the meaning of this to determine that it’s has NOTHING to do with homosexuality? What do you think the phrase “men having relations with other men” means? This isn’t some morally superior thing. We are literally just reading what it says.

Yes, God said love your neighbor as yourself. Do you know what love is? It isn’t always telling someone that everything they are doing is right. Why do parents discipline their children? Out of love. Do children like being disciplined? Not necessarily. But it’s good for them. If you truly loved someone, you would tell them the truth, even if it hurts.

Whose "truth" ?? Your truth no doubt but not mine.

Nice going, comparing gays to children needing discipline.

I meant “truth” as the Bible’s truth. Don’t believe what I say about homosexuality. Believe what the Bible says. There’s a reason why I quoted Romans 1:27 because it only really matters what the Bible says. Just read the verses that talk about this in an unbiased way, that’s all I ask. How you interpret the verse is your own decision.

Really what matters, at the end of the day, is that you believe in Jesus as your Savior. What you believe about homosexuality isn’t going to affect your salvation. You and I might always disagree about homosexuality, but that’s ok. Belief in Jesus Christ should be our top priority rather than useless arguing that gets nothing accomplished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I want to be very clear on this. I don't condemn your existence no one does.

You are much more than your sexual identity

You or your church just want to condemn OP to a lifetime of obligatory celibacy, against his or her will. Pretty darn cruel by any standards. Imagine if you were told you HAD to be celibate and couldn't form a relationship with the love of you life, that you couldn't have a family or children unless you went against your natural feelings and married someone of the opposite sex (which would be fairly cruel that person to, to marry someone who wasn't sexually attracted to him/her).

Anyone in Christianity who doesn't get married is obligated to be celibate forever. This means if you are straight and do not find a suitable marriage partner, you are obligated to remain celibate for your entire life. Isn't this also particularly "cruel" in your view?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I want to be very clear on this. I don't condemn your existence no one does.

You are much more than your sexual identity

You or your church just want to condemn OP to a lifetime of obligatory celibacy, against his or her will. Pretty darn cruel by any standards. Imagine if you were told you HAD to be celibate and couldn't form a relationship with the love of you life, that you couldn't have a family or children unless you went against your natural feelings and married someone of the opposite sex (which would be fairly cruel that person to, to marry someone who wasn't sexually attracted to him/her).

Anyone in Christianity who doesn't get married is obligated to be celibate forever. This means if you are straight and do not find a suitable marriage partner, you are obligated to remain celibate for your entire life. Isn't this also particularly "cruel" in your view?

Well the 95%+ of people who have sex before they get married (and those who have had sex but never got married) would probably say yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I want to be very clear on this. I don't condemn your existence no one does.

You are much more than your sexual identity

You or your church just want to condemn OP to a lifetime of obligatory celibacy, against his or her will. Pretty darn cruel by any standards. Imagine if you were told you HAD to be celibate and couldn't form a relationship with the love of you life, that you couldn't have a family or children unless you went against your natural feelings and married someone of the opposite sex (which would be fairly cruel that person to, to marry someone who wasn't sexually attracted to him/her).

Anyone in Christianity who doesn't get married is obligated to be celibate forever. This means if you are straight and do not find a suitable marriage partner, you are obligated to remain celibate for your entire life. Isn't this also particularly "cruel" in your view?

Well the 95%+ of people who have sex before they get married (and those who have had sex but never got married) would probably say yes.

Well, the sin of having sex outside of marriage is no less of a sin if you are heterosexual than if you are homosexual. Christians may get a lot more excited about homosexuality but they are the exact same sin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can one be LGBT and religious when the teachings of the church pretty much condemn your existence from the get go?

You can’t. The church doesn’t condemn your existence but it condemns sin.

The Bible is clear on homosexuality (Romans 1:26-28).

It’s be like trying to claim that murder is okay and claiming to be a Christian at the same time. It doesn’t work

It's also clear on greed but you don't see churches stopping greedy people from participating or calling out their son every week.

I go to a Church that does not accept homosexual acts, but we do have homosexual people in the Church and they do fully participate and no one "calls them out" because your personal struggles, sins, etc., are not anyone else's business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

I'm atheist and gay, I just never got how you could be a homosexual and show love for a religion that deems you as a walking sin factory.

As a Christian I believe we are all walking sin factories

This op. You are more than your sexual identity or preference. You are a human being, made by a God and loved by God. We’re all sinners; some of us are just forgiven!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over how many people say, "The Bible is clear" on the topic of homosexuality. It's not. The words used to describe "homosexuality" didn't mean homosexuality as we know it. That term did not exist. The context and emphasis is much more about sexual immorality and 'excess.' During this time, it was common for men (mostly married) to take younger boys as additional lovers and this was a not a reciprocal arrangement. You can see this custom has survived in Afghanistan. Now that is truly evil. Prudish men who think homosexuality is "gross" have deliberately misinterpreted the Bible for hundreds of years and have pulled the wool over all the non-welcoming churches. It gives them power to convince their flock that they are being "strong" and are morally superior because they are the only ones willing to stand up for the "truth." This whole thing is probably a test from God to see who took his exhortation to love your neighbors as yourself seriously or if the sense of superiority was just too strong. Sadly, we're failing this test as a religion...

Yes the Bible never uses the word “homosexuality” Yet Romans 1:27 says that the “men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” What else do you think this means? How much do you have to stretch the meaning of this to determine that it’s has NOTHING to do with homosexuality? What do you think the phrase “men having relations with other men” means? This isn’t some morally superior thing. We are literally just reading what it says.

Yes, God said love your neighbor as yourself. Do you know what love is? It isn’t always telling someone that everything they are doing is right. Why do parents discipline their children? Out of love. Do children like being disciplined? Not necessarily. But it’s good for them. If you truly loved someone, you would tell them the truth, even if it hurts.

Again - context matters. This verse almost certainly is talking about heterosexual, married men who choose to have extra-marital sexual relations with other men. Of course, this is considered a sin - God is not a fan of sexual relations outside of marriage. There is nothing in this verse about committed same-sex relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over how many people say, "The Bible is clear" on the topic of homosexuality. It's not. The words used to describe "homosexuality" didn't mean homosexuality as we know it. That term did not exist. The context and emphasis is much more about sexual immorality and 'excess.' During this time, it was common for men (mostly married) to take younger boys as additional lovers and this was a not a reciprocal arrangement. You can see this custom has survived in Afghanistan. Now that is truly evil. Prudish men who think homosexuality is "gross" have deliberately misinterpreted the Bible for hundreds of years and have pulled the wool over all the non-welcoming churches. It gives them power to convince their flock that they are being "strong" and are morally superior because they are the only ones willing to stand up for the "truth." This whole thing is probably a test from God to see who took his exhortation to love your neighbors as yourself seriously or if the sense of superiority was just too strong. Sadly, we're failing this test as a religion...

Yes the Bible never uses the word “homosexuality” Yet Romans 1:27 says that the “men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” What else do you think this means? How much do you have to stretch the meaning of this to determine that it’s has NOTHING to do with homosexuality? What do you think the phrase “men having relations with other men” means? This isn’t some morally superior thing. We are literally just reading what it says.

Yes, God said love your neighbor as yourself. Do you know what love is? It isn’t always telling someone that everything they are doing is right. Why do parents discipline their children? Out of love. Do children like being disciplined? Not necessarily. But it’s good for them. If you truly loved someone, you would tell them the truth, even if it hurts.

Again - context matters. This verse almost certainly is talking about heterosexual, married men who choose to have extra-marital sexual relations with other men. Of course, this is considered a sin - God is not a fan of sexual relations outside of marriage. There is nothing in this verse about committed same-sex relationships.

How do you know what the verse was "almost certainly" talking about? And why would the verse need to be written in this way? Adultery was very clearly a sin and wouldn't the verse be something like "adultery is always wrong?" It seems that the act of men with men was also wrong, in addition to prostitution and adultery.

[Anonymous]

you work from within.

mine used to condemn (although not as strictly as some of the evangelical faiths) but has moved over time.

the movement occurred because people with better attitudes didn't leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

I'm atheist and gay, I just never got how you could be a homosexual and show love for a religion that deems you as a walking sin factory.

As a Christian I believe we are all walking sin factories

This op. You are more than your sexual identity or preference. You are a human being, made by a God and loved by God. We’re all sinners; some of us are just forgiven!

If I were gay I'd want nothing to do with a god who called me a sinner for finding the true (same sex) love of my life. That's just awful. God needs to do some serious reflection if he's demanding people he created suppress their natural desire to have a loving relationship based on mutual sexual attraction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

I'm atheist and gay, I just never got how you could be a homosexual and show love for a religion that deems you as a walking sin factory.

As a Christian I believe we are all walking sin factories

This op. You are more than your sexual identity or preference. You are a human being, made by a God and loved by God. We’re all sinners; some of us are just forgiven!

If I were gay I'd want nothing to do with a god who called me a sinner for finding the true (same sex) love of my life. That's just awful. God needs to do some serious reflection if he's demanding people he created suppress their natural desire to have a loving relationship based on mutual sexual attraction.

But God requires this from all Christians. Christians are required to refrain from all sexual activity unless in a heterosexual marriage relationship. And then, divorce is allowed under only the most limited of circumstances. There are several passages that encourage life-long celibacy. And as you can see from this board, keeping mutual sexual attraction to one person for your entire life is basically impossible. So Christianity has some pretty tough requirements for all of its adherents. What you are sensing, pp, is the hypocrisy of churches that fixate on homosexual acts while staying silent on other Christians living by a non-Christian standard. Sexual purity in Christianity is a very strict standard for all people, and completely counter to the culture that we live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

I'm atheist and gay, I just never got how you could be a homosexual and show love for a religion that deems you as a walking sin factory.

As a Christian I believe we are all walking sin factories

This op. You are more than your sexual identity or preference. You are a human being, made by a God and loved by God. We’re all sinners; some of us are just forgiven!

If I were gay I'd want nothing to do with a god who called me a sinner for finding the true (same sex) love of my life. That's just awful. God needs to do some serious reflection if he's demanding people he created suppress their natural desire to have a loving relationship based on mutual sexual attraction.

The Christian god only cares about procreation, to insure more Christians down the road. That takes a man and a woman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't get over how many people say, "The Bible is clear" on the topic of homosexuality. It's not. The words used to describe "homosexuality" didn't mean homosexuality as we know it. That term did not exist. The context and emphasis is much more about sexual immorality and 'excess.' During this time, it was common for men (mostly married) to take younger boys as additional lovers and this was a not a reciprocal arrangement. You can see this custom has survived in Afghanistan. Now that is truly evil. Prudish men who think homosexuality is "gross" have deliberately misinterpreted the Bible for hundreds of years and have pulled the wool over all the non-welcoming churches. It gives them power to convince their flock that they are being "strong" and are morally superior because they are the only ones willing to stand up for the "truth." This whole thing is probably a test from God to see who took his exhortation to love your neighbors as yourself seriously or if the sense of superiority was just too strong. Sadly, we're failing this test as a religion...

Yes the Bible never uses the word “homosexuality” Yet Romans 1:27 says that the “men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” What else do you think this means? How much do you have to stretch the meaning of this to determine that it’s has NOTHING to do with homosexuality? What do you think the phrase “men having relations with other men” means? This isn’t some morally superior thing. We are literally just reading what it says.

Yes, God said love your neighbor as yourself. Do you know what love is? It isn’t always telling someone that everything they are doing is right. Why do parents discipline their children? Out of love. Do children like being disciplined? Not necessarily. But it’s good for them. If you truly loved someone, you would tell them the truth, even if it hurts.

Again - context matters. This verse almost certainly is talking about heterosexual, married men who choose to have extra-marital sexual relations with other men. Of course, this is considered a sin - God is not a fan of sexual relations outside of marriage. There is nothing in this verse about committed same-sex relationships.

How do you know what the verse was "almost certainly" talking about? And why would the verse need to be written in this way? Adultery was very clearly a sin and wouldn't the verse be something like "adultery is always wrong?" It seems that the act of men with men was also wrong, in addition to prostitution and adultery.

Because they didn't think letting their sexual urges out with another man outside the confines of their heterosexual marriage was adultery which they defined as sleeping with another woman. The Bible clarifies that is also not allowed. This was a thing - an historic thing verified outside the Bible that married, heterosexual men would have sex with young men and they thought it was okay. This does not refer to the committed same sex marriages that many Christians accept as fully acceptable in terms of what the Bible says about sexual relationships.